UPDATE: A story at Baptist Press spreads similar Christmas cheer.
If anyone knows Michael Horton’s email, send this one to him please. He’ll appreciate it.
There are two kinds of evangelicals who read the Internet Monk web site. The first, like myself, find it increasingly hard to identify with evangelicalism. The metaphor of “the evangelical wilderness” is one they find apropos. Like myself, they look around evangelicalism and see a landscape being devoured like a scene out of The Langoliers. Like myself, they find shelter in what other traditions haven’t yet thrown out and look hopefully towards a new generation of evangelicals to discern better than their elders what has been lost and what is wrong.
The second group of evangelical reader is happily, confidently, certainly evangelical and stands in some version of frustrated amazement at what is written and said here week after week. These are evangelicals for whom their pastors’ explanations from the Bible answer all questions, for whom evangelical leadership speaks a sure word and for whom the good always outweighs the bad in the family. They are cheerful Freds to my mumbling, unconverted Scrooge.
These readers often see my posts critiquing evangelicalism somewhere between immature whining and malicious betrayal. Despite the complexity of situations that face those in the community that exists around this blog and its offer of a “post-evangelical option,” these readers are confident that with enough good preaching and the right priorities, even persons such as myself could be rescued.
I write this bit of reminisce with both parties in mind. For the first, I write to confirm your convictions or suspicions that evangelicalism continues its demise. For the second, I offer this post as further evidence that the nature of the wrongs in evangelicalism are far deeper than you want to admit as you sit safely in your “niche.” In fact, what I will share with you is a scene of an evangelical apocalypse, quietly unfolding before you.
So, let’s talk about Rod Parsley.
If you aren’t familiar with Rod Parsley, the Wikipedia article is adequate for basic facts and his place in the culture war. It is not adequate at all in placing Parsley in the prosperity Gospel movement, where his preaching and teaching plays a prominent role via TBN, his books and the World Harvest Megachurch’s many conferences and events.
If you haven’t watched Parsley, you certainly need to do so, for several reasons. For one, he is an imposing man with extraordinary speaking abilities. He is insistent on retaining the distinctives of old time Pentecostalism and is highly critical of those streams in the Charismatic movement that are reluctant to talk about the Baptism of the Spirit as a distinct second word with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Parsley is intelligent and winsome. He possesses massive personal charisma, which he uses in a mixture of evangelistic preaching, crass prosperity fund-raising, angry culture war rhetoric and a genuine concern for pastors and the church.
I’ve always placed Parsley in a different niche than other prosperity Gospel shills. For one thing, while he believes in the full array of Pentecostal gifts and manifestations, he does not appear to be interested in misrepresenting himself as anything other than a preacher, albeit one obsessed with the culture war. He has a strong view of scripture. He loves the church. He often preaches the distinctives of the Gospel in a far clearer way than anyone else in his camp.
While Parsley’s culture war ambitions are deeply grounded in assumptions that I believe are wrong and do not share, he does not appear to be a political opportunist. In all his zealous causes, he impresses me as sincere and always has, even when he scares me.
That includes a sincere devotion to the cancer that is the prosperity Gospel, which Parsley regularly invokes to increase his support.
Now I have often said that I believe the prosperity Gospel has spread throughout evangelicalism, and I have plenty of actual and anecdotal evidence that this is true. While the crasser versions of prosperity nonsense are obnoxious to many evangelicals, most evangelicals believe in some doctrine of economic prosperity where their current lifestyle as they conceive of it will be sustained by God in return for their own giving, worship and general obedience. They tend to believe this in regard to their churches and businesses as well.
Evangelicals do not, by and large, want the economics of Jesus, or to even contemplate what such a thing might even mean. The vast majority of evangelicals believe Satan is behind high gas prices and God sends low ones. This is who we are.
But does it affect the Gospel that we believe? Again, most evangelicals would say “No.” Whatever is believed about economics and financial prosperity, the Gospel remains simple, pure and spiritually applicable.
So…..I was sitting in the living room an hour perhaps before leaving for Christmas Eve worship services at 10:30 p.m. A Rod Parsley Christmas special was on.
I watched. After the music, Parsley appeared, sitting at a kitchen table with an open Bible and a cup of coffee.
Parsley proceded to interpret the incarnation of Jesus as an illustration of the prosperity gospel. He did not deny the incarnation at all. Oh no. He simply remade it into the raw material of a talk on how you can get a Christmas miracle of your very own.
Do you want a Christmas miracle of healing or finances?
Mary got a Christmas miracle. How did she do it? You can do the same!
I realized immediately I was watching something every bit as hostile and heinous as some radical Jesus critic telling us that this little account teaches us about the hopes and dreams of oppressed peasants everywhere, but Parsley was safely within the walls of Bible-believing evangelicalism as he took the meaning of the incarnation and transformed it into 5 Steps to Get God to Bail You Out.
The point that stays with me was something along the lines of “2. God desires a pure womb for his miracles.” So you should get rid of whatever bad influences are in your life so that you, too, can be a pure womb for the Holy Spirit to bring a Christmas miracle to you.
That’s right. The virgin birth is an illustration of moralistic repentance. Clean up your thought life so you, too, can be a virgin’s womb….so to speak.
Now Parsley is plenty intelligent enough to understand the Gospel and the Incarnation. He’s not a rube. Nor are his thousands of followers.
But he’s corrupted by the prosperity Gospel to the point that he can, on Christmas Eve, take the story of the incarnation and interpret it as a series of steps for you to emulate on your way to a Christmas miracle of your own.
The incarnation of a parable. The incarnation as a set of instructions of how to get God to heal your spouse or send money.
Now, I particularly want to ask iMonk readers in the previously mentioned group 2 a question: What percentage of the first 100 evangelicals we can find in the phone book would recognize that….
1. Parsley has denied the meaning of the incarnation?
2. Parsley has poisoned the incarnation with the Prosperity Gospel?
I’ll play and say that perhaps 10-15% would realize Parsley just denied the meaning of the incarnation and replaced it with the Prosperity cancer.
And that, my friends, is where were are in evangelicalism in 2008. Parsley may be a fringe nut job to you, but in evangelicalism world wide, he’s main stream, Dobson approved, TBN safe.
For calling out Parsley on this web site, I’ll get a hundred angry comments and emails. Dozens of pastors will take notes on that talk and use it again. And worst of all, half of those who know it’s a twisted, perverse reinterpretation of the incarnation will find ways to apologize for Parsley.
After all, scripture can mean so many different things. And who knows what God may have done with that message in the lives of the audience.
So here’s wishing you, dear reader, and all of us watching the evangelical circus, a Happy New Year. And may each of you learn the true lesson of the Christmas story: stop thinking bad thoughts and your life can become a virgin womb for a miracle, just like Mary.
She got hers; you can get yours.
One last note. A bout 90 minutes later, I heard the homily at midnight mass. An older, retired priest had written out his sermon for the 20 or so of us gathered at my wife’s church. He had one message: The incarnation was and is real. In all the other things we do at Christmas, don’t forget that God became a human being, so he could come to us and to our lives today and every day.
It’s good to know I could hear the truth of the Incarnation somewhere on Christmas Eve.
The Internet Monk Archives 
When I hear messages like Parsley’s, I ‘hear’ e.g…the womb is the dark place where humanity (flesh) is conceived. And in that dark field of fleshly procreation… God planted a righteous seed. That precious seed was formed in darkness of the womb, born into darkness of the world, but unlike all His fleshly brethren, He was Life. His immersion into the Second death (death of His soul)…made it possible for each of us to come forth from the dark womb of death and pass ‘from death to Life. The Father then becomes my rock, shield, deliverer, fortress, and strength..(the real prosperity gospel)! Rather than wasting words condemning the words of other men..we might be better served speaking Words of Life.
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I wish I had this earlier for this post, but Pastor Dieter Reida has an excellent list of “Thou Shalts” to consider when preparing a Christmas service. Take note of it, and refer to it again next year.
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Chris E.
I surrender! 🙂
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Actually, they aren’t. Menstrual rags would be one of those things that would render an Old Testament believer unclean for a time – in a way that sin alone, which could be atoned for the next day wouldn’t. ‘Filthy rags’ doesn’t really capture the shock value of that statement.
When the fruits of prosperity are carefully paraded in front of the screen whilst the preacher confidentially reveals how God can be manipulated into producing all of these for you, I don’t think the language of lust or indeed pornography is too strong or indeed inappropriate.
Scripture values fidelity to God more greatly than middle class sensibilities, and knows of no sin more serious than idolatry. There is nothing Christian about trying to manipulate God into getting you what you really really want. Against the unfaithful believer, the Bible uses the language of Ezekiel 23:20
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Sigh.
If (big “if”) evangelicals were to accept the Nicene Creed as an article/articulation of their faith, it might just be possible that people would start to see Parsley’s (and others) errors for what they are. (Or not.)
I wonder when we Protestants will take a long, hard look at this kind of “teaching” and openly declare it to be that of another, highly syncretistic religion that’s making use of certain aspects of Christianity?
(I could expand on that, especially given Parsley’s outright hate speech about Islam and Muslims, but won’t. You all ca fill in the blanks pretty easily, I’m thinking.)
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I agree with dumb ox about Marian cults: when iMonk paraphrased part of Parsley’s message as That’s right. The virgin birth is an illustration of moralistic repentance. Clean up your thought life so you, too, can be a virgin’s womb….so to speak, all I could think was, “Wow, it’s like he’s stumping for acceptance of the Immaculate Conception.”
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You’re welcome, treebeard. It’s all part of the Pavlovian RC conditioning, you know; mention “Mary” and all this stuff comes pouring out 😉
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“Filthy rags” are at least morally neutral. They are of no value according to Paul. Comparing facets of Christianity to pornography, takes it another step further.
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Martha,
Thanks very much for that St. Augustine quote. I never heard that before, and that articulates my understanding better than the version I heard previously.
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How are you on St Paul and Isaiah comparing works righteousness to used tampons?
Thing is – I know what he means, there is something ‘pornographic’ about prosperity presentations. It’s like CS Lewis’s picture of a country where a men salivate in a room whilst a steak is slowly revealed from behind a curtain.
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Michael this was splendid.
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tanegeel
“Dobson may not be a prosperity teacher, but his underlying assumptions aren’t much different from the prosperity gospel. He doesn’t promise riches, but he uses the same pattern: Follow these three steps, ban this video game and sign this petition and your kids will grow up “safe†and never be corrupted by the world!”
I really stopped listening to Dobson when he got deep into politics. 10 – 15 years ago. This wasn’t his message back then. His message used to be work hard at raising your kids. Be humble. Pray. And God is in charge.
I guess he changed?
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rasselas,
Why do people feel like they have to equate something that they don’t like in Christian circles with pornography?
I hear or read the comparison made about once a month, and quite frankly its as distasteful now as the first time I heard it.
I do have a sense of humor, but comparing anything Christian to pornography crosses the line for me.
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iv’e lived most of my life in lancaster.(near the world harvest church) iv’e spent most of my life dealing with the product of his teaching.as a co-worker of many from his flock,i often felt rebuke.i’m a very “rough around the edges” looking fella, as i am a “street evangelist”. i was spared a certain early death from drugs and alchohol.with that said,i’ll never make it in a prosperity based faith because i am reminded of jesus’ teachings that “those who will be first, will be last.” or perhaps reminded that we are not to “store our treasures on earth.” i’d rather use the money to “bring a friend.” didn’t JESUS tell the wealthy man and disciples in matthew 19:23″i tell you the truth,it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.” it’s not for the weak of heart, living pillar-to-post! GOD has blessed my life enough with the gift of breath each and every day.
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imonk good stuff, but i had to check out the grinning Zombie myself – man, honestly u can’t even make it up anymore (is it me? or is there something somewhat pornographic about it all? 🙂
http://www.rodparsley.com/mediaplayer/index.aspx?EpisodeID=1207
http://www.rodparsley.com/mediaplayer/index.aspx?EpisodeID=1208
just remember, if u shoot one Zombie they’ll be 10 more to take his place
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From my book “The Hidden Kingdom: The United States in Biblical Prophecy” —
I sometimes like to tell people that I know why the world is in such sorry shape. It is that God and his angels are too busy picking lottery numbers. I get this image of all the hopeful praying fervently that their respective numbers will come out — angels collecting those prayers in their bowls as heavenly facsimiles of lottery tickets and bringing them to the Throne of Grace — and God, in His Infinite Wisdom, deciding which numbers will be chosen.
And then there’s this one angel who comes to the Almighty Throne with a problem — not numbers, but a real problem from some unfortunate earthbound believer.
God looks over the situation and then impatiently asks the angel, “Well, what numbers does she want?” — to which the angel responds, “She didn’t pick any numbers, she just prayed for help with this problem.”
And God says in consternation, “Well, how can I help her if she doesn’t play the lottery. Go back down there and tell her that she has to be in it to win it.”
Actually, I believe that the only truly random events in the Universe may be which lottery numbers come out (at least the ones that aren’t fixed.) I don’t think God gets involved with lotteries at all, except on certain occasions when He might put His divine hand in to make sure that a certain special child of His doesn’t win big enough to damage his or her spirituality. pp109-110
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Amen on Klouda. A low point for Baptists, most of whom were totally unaware of what happened.
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Sam Urfer:
Thank you for clarifying that because the reference to Dr. James Dobson as a snake was troubling to me as well.
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Dear HUG,
May I suggest that you google, “Sheri Klouda” for an idea on how some evangelicals treat women. If you find Wade Burleson’s blog, you will find some more, especially in the extreme end.
Personal experience, I did have some problems myself. Being almost ordered to lie, by another woman to a man, because I didn’t want to teach something in Bible Study. Only being allowed to teach adult women, not even a mixed group. Seeing men, with less time as Christians, (nor advanced study) being leaders over women with longer periods a Christian. Most took place in Southern California, but my first experience of the last type, Baptist college in Kentucky.
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Sorry if by saying that Dobson is a snake I was implying that he was involved with the Prosperity gospel. By “that ilk” I was referring to culture warrior televangelist loony tunes more than outright heretics.
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Dobson may not be a prosperity teacher, but his underlying assumptions aren’t much different from the prosperity gospel. He doesn’t promise riches, but he uses the same pattern: Follow these three steps, ban this video game and sign this petition and your kids will grow up “safe” and never be corrupted by the world!
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Calling Dobson a snake might be going to far, but he lost his bearings a long time ago. The dominionism he preaches is at odds with the Gospel; it teaches that the kingdom can be brought on by force (a.k.a. political organizing in the U.S.).
Plenty of folks in Palestine believed that Jesus was going to usher in the kingdom that way too. What a disappointment He turned out to be… 😉
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Charley – a sword? Man, all we get are Apostolic Blessings! 😉
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Tieing Dobson to the prosperity gospel is way beyond a stretch. While his cultural war emphasis is susspect and no doubt smacks of dominion theology it is intellectually dishonest to connect the two.
We outght to point to our own failure to police our own, or perhaps visit our outrage at our inability to stand united even in our demnominational diversions and put down this herisy that nuetuers the Gospel to merely a financial plan or Tony Robbins methodology. We ought to direct our efforts at protecting the poor, the downtrodden from this putrid American crap spewed across the airwaves all over the world.
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“After all, if I can learn to control God, then I can get him to do what I want, and control my own destiny”
That is not Religion. It is the practice of Magic.
Not Luther, but rather, Merlin.
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sonja, you are actually expressing the Catholic view of the matter. As the Catechism says:
“490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary “was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role.” The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”. In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.
492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”. The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to “the Son of the Most High” without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that “with God nothing will be impossible”: “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word.” Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace.”
treebeard, I think you’re trying to say what St. Augustine is getting at here:
“Now, beloved, give me your whole attention, for you also are members of Christ; you also are the body of Christ. Consider how you yourselves can be among those of whom the Lord said: Here are my mother and my brothers. Do you wonder how you can be the mother of Christ? He himself said: Whoever hears and fulfills the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and my sister and my mother. As for our being the brothers and sisters of Christ, we can understand this because although there is only one inheritance and Christ is the only Son, his mercy would not allow him to remain alone. It was his wish that we too should be heirs of the Father, and co-heirs with himself.
“Now having said that all of you are brothers of Christ, shall I not dare to call you his mother? Much less would I dare to deny his words. Tell me how Mary became the mother of Christ, if it was not by giving birth to the members of Christ? You, to whom I am speaking, are the members of Christ. Now you in your turn must draw to the font of baptism as many as you possibly can. You became sons when you were born there yourselves, and now by bringing others to birth in the same way, you have it in your power to become the mothers of Christ.”
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When I started getting “inklings” and began investigating Christianity, I turned to the resources available to me. Unfortunately, one of those was TBN. At that time, I had a vague understanding, at best, of the gospel message of salvation. I watched hours of programming, said different versions of the lord’s prayer, and got saved several times.
The main message I received from TBN was that Jesus suffered so I did not have to, and if I gave enough money to all the preachers, God would reward me ten fold in personal and financial prosperity.
Thankfully that period did not last too long, and I never sowed any “seed money†to grow my miracle, or made myself a virgin womb for my miracle, or invested $1,000 in “God’s bank†for a guaranteed 10/1 rate of return, or paid money to get slapped on the forehead by Benny Hin.
However, I do remember one particular item: a large cool looking sword. Rod Parsley wanted me to be a culture warrior for God, and with modest contribution, he would send me a battle sword. Now, he did not promise that his sword would heal or provide financial miracles, and there is nothing wrong with gifts in exchange for a tithe. But I remember thinking, “Really? A sword?â€
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Sorry, that should have been Parsley not Parsons in my comment above.
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I think calling Dobson a snake is unwarranted and over the top, even while I am uncomfortable with the culture war emphasis his ministry has assumed.
Bob: I believe it was culture war alliances that allowed folks like Parsons to don the evangelical mantle.
BTW, the prosperity cult has its followers in Europe, as well; I also think that there is only a difference of degree rather than essence between the prosperity cult and the Prayer of Jabez craze which swept Evangelicalism a few years ago.
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It’s not only Africa, the prosperity gospel is also ravaging it’s way across the church in India.
I have no doubt that variants of it will appear in China – if they haven’t done so already.
Anything that speaks to result based works righteousness will always strike a chord with people – be they in Africa, India, Europe, America, etc. After all, if I can learn to control God, then I can get him to do what I want, and control my own destiny.
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As a follow up, I was referring to “for unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, etc.” and not merely “the virgin shall conceive and bear a son.”
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Wow — American Evangelicals blaming other American Evangelicals for “making the Kings of the earth drunk with the wine of their [her] fornication.”
Now that’s something I never thought I’d witness ….
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The birth of the God-man was no miracle, but a totally normal biological event?
I don’t think so. He was born (not just conceived) of a virgin. That’s enough of a miracle for Isaiah to mention it.
Weird.
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As a few have mentioned, the birth of Jesus was NO miracle. It was a totally normal biological event. Conception, OTOH, was truly a miracle.
The only miracle I find in/around Bethlehem was the angelic chorus appearing to the shepherds.
While not as “up front” with the prosperity gospel, we Campbellites come close. Thanks for the challenge to all to reevaluate their conception of the Good News.
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Bob: Make no mistake, James Dobson is as much of a snake as any of that ilk.
Regarding the heretic:
As Simeon said to Mary in the Temple regarding the Christ child, “and a sword will pierce through your own soul also” (Luke 2:35). The Incarnation was not a lazy July picnic for Mary, the Lady of Sorrows, hardly an example of the prosperity Gospel.
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I saw African prosperity preachers at Amsterdam 2000 over 8 years ago. It’s been going on a long time over there. Joni Erickson Tada told the crowd that she had more than one pastor try to heal her at that same conference. One guy told her to stand up and walk. It boggles the mind.
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I’ll play. I’d say 10% of evangelicals would be able to identify Parsley’s error. The overwhelming majority of us are just not thoughtful enough about theology to make the connection.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying only 10% are smart enough, only that 90% just don’t care enough about thinking very deeply about these issues. I lived in Columbus for 3 1/2 years, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that while most white evangelicals are mildly embarrassed by Parsley’s theatrical methods, hardly any of them are bothered by what he teaches.
Michael, I’ll only disagree with you on one point: Parsley IS a political opportunist. He tried to make an incredibly fast leap from local political power (he was highly instrumental in getting the Ohio Marriage act passed in 04), to national political power this year by trying to become McCain’s religious spokesperson. Fortunately, it backfired when McCain ejected him from the camp.
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It isn’t about money or wealth (did you catch the show where one of the prosperity people was trying to turn Mary and Joseph into an upwardly mobile upper middle class couple? Wish I could remember who… — David
Yesterday was Holy Family Sunday in the liturgical calendar.
MARY & JOSEPH AS YUPPIES? WTF??? St Joseph was a carpenter/contractor, as blue-collar as you can get!
What was he thinking, the Gospel According to Seinfeld? Did he just celebrate Festivus, Feast of the Seinfeld Sneer — or Christmas, the Feast celebrating The Incarnation?
IMonk, Sonja, Aliasmoi: Maybe IMonk could do a posting or two about the status and treatment of women in Evangelical circles? The dynamic I see happening is is a synergistic reaction of Feminist female-supremacy and an Evangelical male-supremacy.
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HUG: Blogging by request is beyond my capabilities. There is plenty of stuff online about it. Most native religions are prosperity/fertility related so the Prosperity spin is easy to promote.
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IMonk: Could you do a series (or at least a few postings) on exactly HOW The Prosperity Gospel is destroying Africa? You’ve been hinting at this for some time, and I’d like to see you do a series specifically on the subject.
Africa’s been Earth’s hard-luck continent and continuing disaster area for at least the past few centuries; the LAST thing they need is a destructive import.
Kat: And (as we’re seeing here) in rich countries as well as poor ones.
Have you ever heard of the Seventies Western version of the Cargo Cult? Von Daniken’s Chariots of the Gods and the whole “Ancient Astronauts” cult it spawned? (Though VDK did have some predecessors preparing the ground — the “Space Brothers” UFO Contactee cults of the Fifties.)
Now the Prosperity Gospel is our era’s Western Cargo Cult. Do as the preacher-man says, send in your money, and God will bring you lotsa Cargo.
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Obed: The Prosperity Gospel is destroying thousands of evangelical churches in Africa. It’s everywhere, thanks to TBN.
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Obed-
Have you never heard of the Cargo Cult? It’s an especially insidious heresy that’s found in Papua New Guinea and some of the other Pacific islands.
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Sonja – A-freaking-men on being more than just a womb. When I was still in Evangelical Churches, I felt like there was a not so subtle message that my sole worth was in my ability to have children. I remember once they were trying to get me to be involved in Missionettes. Now, there are many reasons I would never-ever be involved in Missionettes, but the most obvious one is that I don’t like kids – at least not in groups. The person who was trying to recruit me just looked at me in shock and horror and said, “You have to like kids! You’re a woman!”
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I had thought the prosperity gospel heresy was mostly an American thing, but I was talking with a friend who works with Russian, Ukrainian, and other former-USSR students, and he was saying that they have told him that in much of the former USSR it’s assumed that if your pastor doesn’t have several cars and other obvious displays of wealth that he’s not really called by God. I can only assume that this sort of thing was imported from us in the States when there was so much evangelical missionary work there in the ’90s. I was really suprised to hear that, though. I wouldn’t have thought that was likely in countries where the average person is in poverty.
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To Sonja — as a former Pentacostal Evangelical convert to Roman Catholicism, I wrestled with the intricacies of the Churches teachings on Mary. But I was looking at the issues from a Protestant fundamentalist viewpoint. What the Roman Church is and has been dealing with is the ancient belief among the non-intellectual laity that the Great God of Heaven in the womb of a young Hebrew Virgin makes her something much more than an accidental conduit. All the honors and titles and dogma that have been bestowed on Mary come from the reality of this unfathomable mystery. And while Protestant Biblical scholars entangle themselves in the thorny theological disputes that arise, most Catholics learn to bask in the love that Mary bestowed on all of us when she kissed and caressed our Infant Savior.
To compare this, the deepest of all joyous mysteries, to a winning lottery ticket, or some such thing, is beyond intelligent commentary ….
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Great post Babu..
But what concerns me is this –
How can an entire movement that purportedly is the “Christian Conscience” of today’s mainline evangelical thought so badly skewer the Gospel message?
Why is it so many “Pastors” can’t articulate what the Gospel is? – In their effort to contemporize the message, they have given way to using absurd metaphors and over-worked & contrived explanations that end so far from the point that it becomes actual Heresy!
I realize I’m beginning to sound like I just finished “Christless Christianity” by Horton here but not only are we to mark them, we are to preach The Truth steadfastly – so …
I’m proposing the next movement in the evangelical agenda to be preaching Christ for one year. The “One Year” Christ message. Draw every message back to Christ, His sacrifice, His atonement. – But wait, that might make us all Catholics?
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Michael,
I know this isn’t the main point of your post, but I think it’s worth asking anyway: Has Dobson or Focus on the Family actually endorsed Rod Parsley? I don’t know, they might work with him on the culture war stuff, but that’s not quite the same as saying he’s OK in all the other crap he says. And, honestly, I’ve still got a soft spot for Jimmy Dob, so please don’t conflate him with TBN.
More to the main point of your post, I would need more details of what Parsley said to judge for sure, but I would estimate that a good half or more of evangelicals would turn up their noses at what he said. Which is still way too few, but not as bad as only 10-15%.
One more thing occurs to me: I think some of the recent deplorable changes in evangelicaldom are due to “demographic” factors. I mean that many of us evangelicals who cut our teeth in the Dodson/Colson/Swindoll/Bill Bright era are pretty much the same in belief and life as we have always been. But for some reason, posers like Parsley and the TBN crowd have managed to grab the “evangelical” mantle for themselves. So evangelicalism is changing because of — dare I draw this analogy? — “illegal immigration” from the prosperity side of the border.
But anyway, you and I are in fundamental agreement. Evangelicalism is in sorry shape and might be on an irreversible course down the toilet bowl of religious history.
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Michael,
Thanks for your speaking to those who will hear. Paul was also doing the same thing in his day. Rom 16:17 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Mark them and avoid them!!! You have biblically marked and now it is my responsibility to avoid. If we don’t follow the prescribed mark and avoid we continue to feed them and deceive ourselves. Thank you for marking.
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Actually, what’s really offensive, heinous and heretical about Parsley’s rendition of Mary is that he reduced her to a “womb” pure or otherwise. The last time I looked, Mary was a whole person. That’s one of the real root sicknesses of evangelicalism is that they despise women. We are more than the sum of our parts, thank you kindly.
My apologies to your Catholic readers, but I believe that Mary was chosen for her faith and obedience rather than any inklings she might have had towards purity. We all have those, and we have an equal tendency to evil … which we shall choose on a given day is really up to the wind.
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Rod’s pretty classic Pentecostal if you see him in the pulpit and out of the studio. He also is very successful at having a multi-ethnic congregation. Within his world, he does a lot of better than average things. I agree he’s money driven, but I don’t know much about his personal lifestyle. I have – personally- never seen him as the overt criminal type of Paula White, Benny Hinn, etc. But my judgement doesn’t matter. I was more interested in how he articulated the incarnation.
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I have tried to watch a couple times, but most of these TBN guys give me a bad case of the “Oh No!”s
I never thought Ron was evangelical. I thought he was nuts.
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Aliasmoi: Treebeard, the whole concept of making yourself pure enough for Christ to be born in us is salvation by works and screams HERESY to me. The Bible says again, and again, and again that we can’t make ourselves pure enough. If we could He wouldn’t have had to die.
Agreed. Absolutely.
The way I heard it shared was not in the sense that we make ourselves pure, it was that we avail ourselves of Christ’s salvation. How? By confessing our sins and being cleansed by His blood, and inviting Him to live in us. In other words, it’s an appropriating of what He has done, not working upwards to be pure. Surely it’s not heresy to acknowledge that we are washed whiter than snow when we ask Him to cleanse us from our sins, and that in our sanctified condition He can grow in us.
This may be drifting too far from the subject of Parsley, so I’ll stop here.
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“In all his zealous causes, he impresses me as sincere…”
The only thing Parsely is sincere about is fleecing his flock and viewers out of money. Period. Frankly, if anyone appears willingly on TBN, they’ve lost complete credibility with me.That network makes the money changers and sellers in the temple look like consecrated saints doing the holiest of work.
Once a ministry starts appearing on TV regularly – especially on TBN – it’s all about the money. Not the gospel. Not the edification of the saints. It’s about the money. Everything presented is done so with the ultimate goal of raising money for that “ministry” and for the network.
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So you clean out your “womb” and you get your miracle Christmas gift from God — like maybe a rich Aunt dies and leaves you her fortune. Does the parallel continue …? Do your cousins send a team of wise lawyers from the East to search out a way to contest the will? Do you then have to pack up and hide out in Egypt (or maybe New Jersey) while the Judge sends the sheriff’s deputies into your town to find you, the “newborn king” of the family …?
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Treebeard, the whole concept of making yourself pure enough for Christ to be born in us is salvation by works and screams HERESY to me. The Bible says again, and again, and again that we can’t make ourselves pure enough. If we could He wouldn’t have had to die.
Romans 5:8: But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were STILL SINNERS.
Mark 2:17: “…Healthy people don’t need a doctor – sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but hose who know they are sinners.”
Philippians 1:6 says: “…He who began a good work in you will perfect it…” Not you begin a good work, and then He will come in. He comes in and starts the work and completes it.
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willoh
“Can anyone explain why people listen to this Parsley stuff? It is not filling, satisfying, or true, Why listen?”
How does the saying go?
“Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer.”
Not that he’s the “enemy” but if you want to counter false teachings you need to understand them to some degree. I have some friends who visited Mormon services a few times just so they could talk to people who had joined or were considering joining that faith from an informed point of view. Many times in the Evangelical world, “the enemy” is tarred with false accusations.
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It’s not “too far.” It just can’t be claimed to have scriptural authority. I can say we should all be like the donkey’s colt and let Jesus ride on us. It’s a Biblical image, and it might make some sense, but can I say it’s what the Bible teaches?
And why do people watch Parsley? Watch him preach at his church when he’s really on. Millions of people hear that style of preaching and say “Now that’s what we need. Someone to tell the truth boldly and to stand up to the Godless.”
Out of his pulpit he’s a dufus. In his pulpit he can be intimidating in his ability to speak. And in the Pentecostal Charismatic world, he knows how to push all the right buttons.
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Can anyone explain why people listen to this Parsley stuff? It is not filling, satisfying, or true, Why listen?
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piratemonk: “I’ve learned usually anytime somebody begins a sentence with…â€I don’t mean to sound like a…(insert adjective) for …., BUT..†– they usually are and are just trying not to look bad for doing it. Treebeard – this is in reference to your comment about not agreeing with Parsley but …”
I hope not! If so, I repent in dust and ashes!
You don’t understand. I live in Ohio. I hate Parsley! (Or perhaps I should say I hate his ministry – we’re not supposed to hate our brothers, and at the least he is a brother.) I do not agree with prosperity teaching.
My point was that the birth of Christ can be interpreted allegorically, NOT in the way of prosperity teaching (reject Parsley, reject Parsley) but in the way of something that is possibly more Biblical. To be more explicit, I have heard the example of Mary used as an example, that Christ is born in us when our sins are cleansed and we become like virgins, and Christ grows in us when we are in a healthy spiritual condition. Perhaps that is taking it too far, as iMonk seems to believe. But I was just throwing it out there.
Here’s more food for thought:
Gal. 4:19 – “My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you.” Here, Paul is travailing so that Christ can be formed in younger believers. This is perhaps comparable to Mary bringing forth the Christ child. Paul is bringing forth Christ in other people.
Too much?
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Chaplain Mike:
Thanks for the quote. What a great reminder; Christians throughout the ages have had to deal with this before. No one should be checking their intellect at the door of any church or TV show. When my children were young; we would sit around the living room and discuss the pastor’s sermon each week, whether we thought his points were correct; whether it lined up with Scripture as a whole; etc.
Rev. Ernesto:
Thank you for pointing out how converts to EO, who are sick of the teachings within evangelicalism, can often become extreme on your end. I am in full agreement with you. Thank you for caring enough about those you shepherd to attempt to lead them to balance in Christian living. In my opinion, that is the definition of good church leadership; a leadership that cares enough about people to curb the extremes.
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Yes, evangelicalism as I know it is getting crazier and crazier. As my sons move around to various parts of the country pursuing their studies we often talk about finding a church. The reality is that i can no longer say “find a bible-believing evangelical church and settle in” and feel that settles it. They might end up in an Ed Young church with his sexcapades or worse. It seems evangelical churches are trying to find their edge, carving out a niche by the uniqueness of of their approach – and it leads to some crazy stuff. I have come to the place where I say to them that if they want to go to a church where the death of Jesus as a sacrifice for sins is central then just go to the Roman Catholic church nearest their home. It might not come out the way evangelicals are used to, but at least they will hear about the sacrifice of Christ, the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. They will confess the Nicene Creed. They will pray the Lord’s Prayer and they will have a plethora of Scripture passages on which to reflect. And that’s more than you can say about most evangelical churches.
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Stephen King reference – yay!
The rest of it – wow. As a Catholic, I’ve heard many and various exhorations to emulate Mary, but never that twist before.
Well, I guess there’s a reason it’s called the PROTESTANT work ethic 🙂
But it constantly amazes me that people familiar with the Bible should mistake worldly success for a sign of God’s favour, when it is the wicked who flourish like the green bay tree. I have heard an explanation that it arose out of two intertwined things: when converted, the regenerate now living godly, sober lives of hard work and thrift naturally did better than those wasting their substance on riotous living; secondly, that anxiety about “But how do I know I am one of the elect and eternally saved?” gave rise to looking for signs in the life after conversion, and since the fruits of a changed heart led to sober, hard-working habits, then worldly prosperity began to be associated subtly with regeneration and served as a ‘proof’ of God’s favour.
I don’t know how good as an explanation that is; it seems to me to fit psychologically (fallen human nature being what it is), and I can imagine how it gets bent down the line after a couple of centuries of “Compare and contrast industrious, business-like, successful Protestant nations with lazy, backwards, poverty-stricken Catholic nations” into “God wants you to be rich and if you just say these prayers/make this offering/buy my range of books and tapes, you too can be rolling in it!”
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“I realized immediately I was watching something every bit as hostile and heinous as some radical Jesus critic telling us that this little account teaches us about the hopes and dreams of oppressed peasants everywhere, but Parsley was safely within the walls of Bible-believing evangelicalism as he took the meaning of the incarnation and transformed it into 5 Steps to Get God to Bail You Out.”…
So well said! I mean como’n people!
There needs to be a delineation drawn between mere doctrinal subplots and “in-house” disagreements among the brethren, and the deal breaker stuff.
Quit telling me that I don’t love Parsley if I don’t call him out. Quit telling me He does great things in Jesus name, and we should all just worry about “what God is calling us to do”, and leave Parsley to God. For crying out loud – if a man purporting to be a leader for the evangelical conscience can’t get the Gospel right? If Parsley can’t refrain from twisting the holy message of the incarnation into an attack on God’s Sovereignty and HIS own will, not Mary’s desire for a “Christmas Blessing”.. I have to ask – when should we be “silent no more.â€
Christless Christianity – Somebody call Horton quick.
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I don’t know if anyone else has said this or not, but what happens when I don’t get my “Christmas miracle”? Is it because I haven’t cleaned my heart and mind out enough? That must be why I’m not getting any good things in my life and the bad keeps happening.
I guess that explains why the church in other parts of the world is suffering persecution. They haven’t cleansed their hearts and minds of evil thoughts like we have here in America. We are so blessed to have the name it and claim it crowd here to tell us that.
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Piratemonk, sometimes when disillusionment sets in, they end up coming over to us. However, that means that we sometimes end up with guys who grow long beards and have long hair in a bun or women who will go around, even in public, with Russian scarves on. They lose the joy of life, read books designed for monks and try to implement them without guidance (and without being a monk). If they are not “suffering” then they obviously are not doing enough.
In other words, they reject the prosperity teachings by rubber-banding off to an extreme opposite from the extreme they were experiencing. The problem is that once a person goes to an extreme view, there is a continuing tendency to go to another extreme. The hard part is to balance them out and settle them into a “normal” Christian life.
You see, extremists of any sort have often learned to mistake “stimulation” for an active Christian life. Whether the stimulation is a “Holy Ghost revival,” or the stimulation is the keeping of multiple minute rules that show that you are different and, therefore, truly following the Lord, the stimulation verifies that you are in touch with the Lord.
As C.S. Lewis would probably have said, the astuteness of the devils (Wormtongue, etc.) is that the stimulation often mimics true Christian experience but is just off enough to mislead you, to make you miss the mark (hamartia). There really are times when the Holy Spirit blows a wind of revival and renewal through the Church. There really are healings and miracles. There really are times when being different is precisely what God wants. <== I am thinking here of Christians in the old Ottoman Empire who were, indeed, required to wear different clothing and to be externally identifiable as Christians.
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Hmm, wow. Few thoughts here…
I’ve learned usually anytime somebody begins a sentence with…â€I don’t mean to sound like a…(insert adjective) for …., BUT..” – they usually are and are just trying not to look bad for doing it. Treebeard – this is in reference to your comment about not agreeing with Parsley but …
Secondly, the Gospel is not about becoming pure and holy so Christ can indwell us. It is about how God became man, how the incorruptible took on the form of the corrupt, and how God’s Holy Justice was satisfied – thus making us pure and clean. Why do so many pastors try so hard to overcomplicate this message with over contrived explanations, illustrations, metaphors, etc.? Most end up just becoming another perversion of the Gospel.
Lastly, imonk – back to a mention you made on a podcast a few back – I remember agreeing with you how the economic downturn would really put a stick in the prosperity pusher’s wheels – but, given the recent discussions I’ve had with those that prescribe to this perversion of the Gospel, that it seems this recession is actually serving as a catalyst for the poor and needy more needy, the middle class whose fully loaded Tahoe’s and Escalades now in repossession – even more determined to receive “God’s Financial Blessing†on their lives.. Possibly, is it true that this perversion is so deceitful that the worse it gets the more determined they become to seek that which God never promised them to begin with? When does disillusionment set it?
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The Langoliers. Wow.
But to get to the core of what you’re asking … I am in the first camp but I think your assessment about percentages is about right.
Most evangelicals might disagree with Parsely’s version of prosperity gospel. But because many are steeped in a softer version of it – a psychological and domestic prosperity gospel that simply assumes middle class dignity based upon the Protestant work ethic – they would not see how violent of a disservice this does to the very Incarnation.
There are similar more tasteful versions of this same violation in almost every book sold in a Christian book store to help you have a better marriage, have better sex, do better at raising your kids, eat better food, etc.
I am not against any of those things! They are mostly real goods. But what I am against is the wrapping they consistently come in. You’ve hit the nail on the head. Clean yourself up. God will give you the psychological well being you’ve always longed for in every area of your life.
Sometimes I think the Elysian Fields have come down from heaven to keep us from awaiting the New Jerusalem.
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I think you’re right about the continuum, Michael. Myself, I am theologically a Pentecostal, but disagree strongly with the Word-Faith “prosperity” wing of the American church (see my post above. And my experience is that Word-Faithers are a minority even in Pentecostal/charismatic circles — though they do seem to be a majority among televangelists and their ilk.)
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Fr. Ernesto:
Here’s my take on allegory.
1. In terms of understanding the meaning of a text, it’s almost always worthless.
2. In terms of using a text to teach some truth of scripture or truth in general, it can be valuable and helpful.
3. Allegory works much better in traditions with tight controls on what teachers are allowed to “come up with” out of scripture, so I don’t think Protestants should even get involved.
4. In the hands of someone wanting to propagate a new, novel or wrong doctrine, it’s dangerous.
If someone wants to say “Be pure,” there are dozens of texts that say exactly that. If one wants to say “Mary had a virgin womb. You have a pure mind and you can have a mircale like Mary,” they are abusing every rule of interpretation to propagate their own lies and distortions.
Allegory is weak ground almost everywhere you find it except in long form narratives like Pilgrim’s Progress.
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Michael,
I wonder if your readers might be more of a continuum. For example, I am solidly in the evangelical camp, but recognize the dangers and weaknesses therein. Surely moving from Evangelical to Post-Evangelical is often a journey, and different people may be on different points along the journey. As for me, I have hopes for a much better Evangelicalism, I believe I am beginning to see glimmers of this, at least up in Canada.
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I have heard Pastors complain that preaching at Christmas and Easter is the hardest time because after you have done it 30 times it is really hard to sound new and fresh. Perhaps this was the trap into which Parsley fell, trying to sound new and fresh and taking it too far.
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I feel somewhat conflicted about the way allegory and exegesis are being tossed about. Perhaps, it is the difference between doctrine and application. I have little problem with the use of exegesis for the development of doctrine. I am under the Patriarchate of Antioch. If you look up the Antiochian School of Theology, you will find out that (to this day) we favor “the literal, historical facts of the life of Jesus Christ over philosophical or allegorical interpretations of Holy Scripture, contrasted with the more mystical and figurative theology coming from Alexandria.”
But, this does not mean that we are against allegory. Allegory, conservatively and correctly used would be what Protestants call “type and antitype,” a quite acceptable means of interpretation and understanding. It is the belief that not only did the Old Testament point to Christ but that even the actions and history many times symbolized and pointed to the Christ who was to come. The Antiochians, however, always insisted that the allegory had to have a historical referent. I would point out that the Protestants who say that the Song of Solomon is a symbolism of Jesus Christ’s relationship to Israel, and through her to the Church are engaging in quite some allegory.
And, in application, it is often to allegory that most preachers turn in order to apply the Scripture to current conditions. That is, by a process of analogy, we take a set of circumstances that were over and done with a long time ago and apply them to today. Otherwise, we would be doing simple historical preachings with limited applications and/or preaching only out of the “doctrinal” passages of Scripture.
iMonk is right. The application of that preacher is sickening. But, I would be cautious of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Unbelievable. Actually not so much after watching a few shows.
Seriously though Michael, why would you be watching TBN on Christmas Eve? It’s like getting ready for your doctor’s visit by going to an all you can eat fried food and ice cream bar.
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The prosperity gospel is no gospel at all. It is exhausting and ridiculous. Almost nothing makes me more angry. At the end of the day, it is me-centered and puts God in position to serve me. It is all about me. Nothing is beyond these preachers.
Sometimes, I listen to TBN’s telethon. Last year, I heard a preacher proclaim that Peter was released from prison via the earthquake in Acts because he had given his Pentecost offering. If you give your offering (to TBN), you will be released from bondage as well. Another preacher proclaimed that Satan was coming after the children of the listeners and unless some mothers and grandmothers started praying (and giving), then Satan was going to kill their children. If their children were consumed by drugs, sex, and demons, it was the fault of the women because they did not pray (and give) enough. The solution? Send in your “seed” gift so that the devil would leave your children alone. There was not an empty line. This is witchcraft, plain and simple, and I have no idea why we are not condemning it vociferously.
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The Christmas miracle Mary got almost ended her betrothal in divorce (could have with execution!), and forever shamed her and gave her son the reputation of a bastard. It was a stigma.
Her Christmas miracle was getting pregnant before marriage and being thought a whore by a lot of people. That’s not the kind of prosperity a lot of evangelicals want.
…right?
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We live within 20 minutes of Dr. Asparagus (er, I mean Parsley) ‘s World Harvest Campus. I have had the distinct displeasure of hearing his perversions too many times. Including… well OK, I won’t bring that up here. Suffice it to say that his disturbing misuse of the incarnation is not a departure from his other hideous self serving messages. I’ve been told he is a great man of god; but his god does not appear to be the one my Bible teaches. Here is the part that is most offensive: he is not abnormal to the evangelical, Pentecostal, prosperity circles he runs in.
Maybe we’ve got it wrong on the explanation of the rapture Michael. Maybe it won’t be so hard to explain the disappearance of 10 to 15 percent of the church…
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You know, for Parsley to imply that the incarnation was Mary’s miracle deifies Mary in a way that even the most radical cult of Mary would never do. But that is at the heart of the faith/prosperity gospel: once we discover the secret of “faith”, we discover how God operates. We therefore can become a god, equal with God. It’s a tempting message; just ask Eve.
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Mary’s Christmas miracle? Today’s gospel reading was the presentation of Jesus at the temple, with Simeon’s prophecy, “a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also” (Luke 2:35). Clearly the manger was already in the shadow of the cross, where the image of Mary cradling the infant Jesus is replaced with the Pieta.
You are probably right that only a small percentage of evangelicals would perceive the heresy; an even smaller percentage would even care. This is secular humanism. (Where’s Leo Buscaglia when you need him?) Parsley might as well have presented a moralistic application from a story from Greek mythology. The Bible has become a gigantic anecdote. But you’re right; he didn’t overtly deny any truth from scripture; the Bible was merely reduced to a vehicle to deliver his own message. It’s a lesson perhaps we can all take to heart, that people need Jesus, not our cleverness, or charisma, our agenda, or even our passion.
But it also displays the scandal of the Gospel. The gospel is not a feel-good message. The message of forgiveness is not good news, if you’re convinced that “I’m Ok, You’re Ok”. The cross proclaims that we are far from ok.
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Well, I don’t know what to say. Anything has an allegorical sense, and I think that one of the things we as Protestants most need to emphasize is setting limits on ANY application not supported by exegesis. Giving “have a clear mind and heart” the scriptural force of the Virgin birth is a huge misreading of the text and a cavalier, out of control application of the text. We just can’t use scripture allegorically and claim the same authority as the plain sense.
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What about Philippians 2 where the Incarnation is explained as God emptying Himself? I know it was Mary that received the miracle, but it was at God’s expense. As I remember the story, Mary wasn’t looking for a miracle. God showed up on the scene, interrupting Mary’s life in a way that would pierce her soul.
If Mary is an example of receiving your miracle, why were not more messiah’s born to young virgins in Israel? I’m sure they wanted it. Why are there not more success stories like those of the powerful evangelists? Perhaps our “womb” is not as pure as theirs. Perhaps that is why Paul warns against those that equate holiness with wealth.
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iMonk, I agree with the main point of your post, and am certainly not an apologist for Parsley. He’s one of the televangelists that I honestly can’t stand to listen to, and I don’t find him the slightest bit charismatic (with a small ‘c’).
However, I have heard something similar shared about Mary giving birth to Jesus, not from a prosperity viewpoint, but from the view that “Christ in us, the hope of glory” requires us to become a “virgin” in a metaphorical sense. In other words, for Christ to live in us (not in our womb as with Mary, but in our spirit), we must become pure and holy. The only way that can happen is by believing in Christ and receiving the effectiveness of His death for our sins. Because we are then “whiter than snow,” Christ can be born in us.
Another comparison between the experience of Mary, and the experience of us as believers: When Christ was born, the angels appeared and rejoiced. Similarly, when Christ is born within a person (when they repent and are born again), “there is rejoicing in the heavens.”
I’m curious about your thoughts on this.
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“Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the pardon-preachers, he would rather that St. Peter’s church should go to ashes, than that it should be built up with the skin, flesh and bones of his sheep.” (Luther, 95 Theses, #50)
The more things change…
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I have never seen/heard Rod Parsley, but he sounds like a wonderful example of why I don’t watch TBN.
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Although I will say this, you’re probably right that he gets the gospel right some fo the time because a friend of mine who worked in a hospital related to me a guy who said “Pastor Parsley is a great man” definitely knew the gospel, and probably wouldn’t have had the chance to hear it from one of the evangelical churches in the area (not because it wasn’t in those churches, but because he wouldn’t have been).
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You are far more generous with Parsley than I am. I lived in C-Bus for awhile and watched his show almost everyday and there was far more prosperity than gospel.
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Well, it’s about time you around got to Pastor
Rod, and I’m glad that you have, although I would have been harder on him for his anger which seems to spew forth as he swaggers around and sweats preaching with a sense of contempt for any but those who believe as he does. Yes, he is intelligent and is perhaps less offensive than some other TBN stalwarts, but a little of him goes too far for me. To preach something such as what you cite seems pure you know what to me.
I need to pray for him and for my less than gracious attitude toward him. Meanwhile, please never hesitate to bring forth posts such as this one–thanks for doing so!
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You’ve lost me there Matt.
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Why should evangelicals know what a non-evangelical doesn’t believe?
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Correct me if I’m wrong here, but would not preaching what a lot of people like to hear make one more prosperous than preaching the same old story to 20 or so? Is not that the essence of the prosperity gospel?
If I understand this correctly, and I do what he says, but don’t get my miracle, then should I not conclude that the whole business is probably bogus, including this God become man stuff?
Personally, I am much more likely to believe what someone is telling me when they are not trying to get money from me. It’s an old rule-of-thumb I learned from a very wise person who made it through the Great Depression in good shape when everyone he knew lost everything.
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Yikes and egads. The thought of someone turning the beauty of the Incarnation into just illustration #284 of religious self-enrichment makes my spleen clench.
But then I have to ask myself, how much have I been infected by the “blab it and grab it” message? I don’t believe that we can gauge our (or others’) closeness to God based on our bank balances; the Bible gives numerous examples of poor but faithful believers. But I do believe that, as in the parable of the talents, when we show ourselves faithful in a little, God gives us more responsibility – including in the financial arena. When we are obedient to God’s will regarding the money He provides us, it seems reasonable that He would entrust us with more money to use as He sees fit. (The key being “to use as HE sees fit”, not “to spend upon your pleasures” as James warns us against.)
So am I still on solid ground here, or have I accidentally checked into Osteen Village with the other mental patients?
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Sometimes it just makes me want to cry seeing what some of my brothers and sisters do in our Father’s name. Why doesn’t he jump on the selling vitamins bandwagon, why must he reduce the Incarnation to a grab for money and power. I think Saint Augustine said that pride is the root of all sin. Methinks he is close to assuming that he is so special he can speak for God, after all, the adoring masses can’t be wrong, can they? Anyway, someone has to continue to stand upright, and transparent, and point beyond themselves to the cross. It isn’t about us, it can’t be. It isn’t about money or wealth (did you catch the show where one of the prosperity people was trying to turn Mary and Joseph into an upwardly mobile upper middle class couple? Wish I could remember who, I was too busy gagging thought). It is about Him, about the trinity, and when it becomes about me, Christ will find someone else to represent Him in this world. I think I will go read “The Rag Picker” again just to remember what servanthood is all about.
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The Langoliers? Now that made me laugh.
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