iMonk 101: November ’08: Alone and Not Alone

Posted byChaplainmikePosted iniMonk 101

(From November of ’08. Part of what this web site is all about. And why some new readers may not exactly get it at first.)

We talk about the evangelical wilderness around here a lot. It’s sometimes academic, and sometimes it’s very personal to all of us. These are some of my thoughts from there today. If God has taught me anything, it’s that you (yes YOU) are out there, and I’m not the only one.

This post is for a particular group of people.

People who really don’t have any choices about what church you attend. Through circumstance or choice, you are a church monogamist, not a church shopper.

You may be a person in a rural area, and your church choices are extremely limited. Maybe, if you are conscientious about your use of fuel and time, your choices are non-existent.

You may be in an area where there’s only one church of your denomination or tradition within reasonable driving distance.

You may be in a foreign country, either as a resident or in the military, and there is only one Christian or evangelical fellowship near you.

You may be a person in a missionary calling, and you must worship with the people/church you are seeking to plant or encourage.

Your marriage or family choices may have settled for you where you go to church. It won’t change unless you relocate.

Whatever the situation, you aren’t church shopping. When people talk about visiting ten or twenty different churches and comparing notes, you don’t relate.

Talk comparing worship leaders, pastors or parking lots doesn’t register with you. You take what you get and you count yourself fortunate to get it.

Perhaps you are forced to worship far from your own tradition. You are a Catholic forced into rural Protestantism. A Presbyterian among Charismatics. A Baptist among Catholics. You are an evangelical who appreciates the broader, deeper, more ancient church and you are forced into the seeker-sensitive, purpose driven wilderness. You are a person who loves traditional church music and you’re listening to a band made up of the youth group rockers and vocalists. You are a person with an education going to church with people who want the Gospel in a cultural form that’s hostile to education and difficult for you to relate to.

There are days that the sound of the same contemporary worship choruses or funeral home organ or out of tune piano makes you consider whether you can ever come back to church again without earplugs.

Perhaps you are loyal to one small group as your primary fellowship. Perhaps you are the supportive person who stays and supports the pastor no matter what else. Perhaps you are the only person who can handle the youth group. Whatever the reason, you are where you are being who you’ve chosen to be and going elsewhere isn’t an option for you….but you feel it.

When people talk about “quitting church,” you don’t hear “changing churches.” For you, leaving would be quitting. Every week, you are making a choice to stay and not leave, and you are making that choice in a situation where many other people would have moved on.

Perhaps you’ve been hurt by the church you’re in. (So many people hurt by churches….it’s hard to think about it.) Mistreated. Lied about and blamed. Maybe more than once. You realize your kids have suffered some disillusionment. Perhaps your marriage is paying the price. There may be conflicts and bitterness over this choice. You’ve wondered, “Is this the right thing to do?”

You’ve certainly wondered, “Why don’t I have the choices that other persons have? Why does my sister have ten churches in a mile radius while I have one?”

You’ve wondered if you been present enough, given enough, been supportive enough and now you need to step away.

You’ve wondered if your choice of this one church is a sign that you’re healthy, or that you’re weak.

You’ve felt good about yourself for being here, and other times you’ve hated yourself for being in this situation. Maybe this is a church where you are content, or maybe it is a church that has filled you with frustration.

God’s part in all of this is the most difficult part of all. Why you? Why here? Why this? Why Lord?

(You’ve probably learned, like me, that “why” questions are not going to get much traction, but they still come to our minds, hearts and tongues easily.)

I don’t know how many different versions of this situation you’ve encountered. I don’t know if you are content or restless, at the end of your rope or hopeful. I don’t know if you believe this is where God wants you to be or if you feel like God is no where near or far.

What do I want to tell you?

You aren’t alone.

You aren’t alone in what you are feeling or in what you are going through.

You may have someone to talk to, or you may not, but don’t think you are the only one who believes that if you could choose another church you’d have a much different life and experience. If you wonder if you’re a bad person for wanting to be in another church, you aren’t. And you certainly aren’t the only one.

I also want to tell you that God knows what he’s doing, but I am not his press spokesperson. I can’t explain his ways in these matters. I do know that you aren’t there by accident, and that the assignment has a place in God’s Kingdom script.

I recently preached on the story of the rich young man in Mark 10 who refused to sell out and follow Jesus.

He was the star of the show. He had lots of choices He liked the script he was living very much.

Jesus invited him to leave that script, and come into the Kingdom script.

And to have no idea what tomorrow was going to be like. No idea where he was going to spend the night. No idea when he was going home.

His security would be Jesus. His script would be whatever Jesus wrote and directed.

There was no little brochure explaining all the benefits of following Jesus; how he would get his best life now, etc.

If you look at where the Apostles and many of the disciples wound up, there’s a good chance it wasn’t going to be in the comfort of a megachurch auditorium.

I think we all face that kind of choice with Jesus. And those of us who are far from the church choices, church benefits and church comforts that others are offered need to remember what it feels likes to get your assignment from Jesus for your part in the play.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Jesus minds very much if we have some emotion and restlessness about this. He knows what we are like and he knows what we are made of. He knows that we struggle and that we wish for a different assignment sometimes.

He was, after all, one who learned obedience through tears. He was the one who prayed “not my will, but your will be done.”

As I’m sure you’ve guessed, I’m part of this group. I don’t feel like an evangelical most of the time. Evangelicalism is the piece of driftwood I’m standing on. What happened to the ship?

The ministry Jesus has given me has taken church choices of any kind away from me. I’m on the fringe of the fringe, preaching to the unlikely and those who normally wouldn’t come near a church. I get to meet them in a very unusual place, and there aren’t many of us who can make it in this ministry. It pays little and demands much.

And to be here, my church choices are non-existent. In my one choice, I’m as odd and out of place as I can possible be. My wife has gone elsewhere- Rome- to experience the church, and I am here, like one of the Apostles, telling the story to the nations that have come to my backyard.

To be here and to be this person in the Kingdom script, I must have my choices taken away, and replaced with the mission.

In other words, Christ leaves me with himself, and a mission that cannot be sustained apart from clinging to and following him.

Most of the time, Jesus is my church and my pastor.

So I have no Marine drill instructor correction for you. My heart is beating like your heart, and I feel so many of the same things.

You’re not alone, and God hasn’t left any of us. In fact, in this evangelical wilderness, he may be closer than you ever thought.

55 thoughts on “iMonk 101: November ’08: Alone and Not Alone”

  2. “The 4th century monastic mothers and fathers who left all of the “shopping” to go out into the desert, went into exile.”

    Been Episcopal, Assembly of God, Baptist, Independent Fundamental, Lutheran (MS), United Methodist, Independent Praise ‘n Worship, Roman Catholic.

    Lived in California, England, Ecuador, Oregon, Peru, Texas, Kentucky and Washington.

    And now “exile” in Vietnam, with no church, and one Christian friend.

    I miss something, but I don’t know what it is.

    But I do like moving beyond social and “intellectual” posturing and get real. Thanks IM!

    Thay Tom

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  4. In some ways, I really resonated with this post, because I certainly felt that for a long time. But looking back, I now realize that was because God called me to a ministry of racial reconciliation and I was too afraid to go to a black church. So for three years I drifted, miserable at every church I went to. Finally, some friends invited my wife and I to a black church that was becoming multi-ethnic and we immediately felt at home.

    I cannot tell you how healing this church experience has been, in many ways, it has reaffirmed my faith in the church as an institution. It has shown me what the church can be. Now, our church is far from perfect, and frustrates me on at least a monthly basis, but we do pretty good. I would credit most of this to our pastor who is a man who genuinely seeks God. We’re gaining a reputation as a healing church, a church that heals people’s relationship with church, after being so burned.

    Of course, I will be moving this summer, and I will probably go into exile again, but the question is worth asking: Is this feeling of dislocation because of disobedience? I know mine was.

    I think part of the evangelical churches problem is that we keep trying to make cookie-cutter churches and Christians. So we’re all white, and we all believe the same thing, and do the same thing. As soon a church goes multi-ethnic, all that stuff gets thrown out the window, since you have to embrace a diversity of gifts and voices for it to work well, and it creates space for non-conformists.

    To be even more blunt: Is this God’s judgment on the SBC and white evangelicals for their lack of racial reconciliation?

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  5. Thanks, all, for your responses to my post. I was misunderstanding what was meant by “church shopper.” Seems like “church hopper” is a more accurate term for a person who goes from church to church but never “buys.”

    imonk, keep up the great work. Your blog, along with the comments of your readers, always give me food for thought.

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  6. Fred,
    Our church went through something similar to yours, though not quite as severe. Attendance had dropped off significantly and our pastor at the time was becoming rather dictatorial. He singled out our family for some not-so-subtle pressure (from the pulpit, even) for reasons that were completely of his own imagination. We turned the whole thing over to the Lord and asked Him to do what needed to be done, whether it meant us leaving or the pastor. Bottom line: he’s now pastoring another church across the county. We’re still there and the church is now growing again under a new pastor. Stay faithful and ask God to do what must be done. If He wants you to go, He’ll make it plain. You’re in my prayers.

    John from Down Under:
    I’m getting to go overseas (Peru) for the first time in my life over Easter week, and one of the things I’m most looking forward to is worshipping with other believers whose language I don’t speak. What a foretaste of Heaven that will be! You’re right; we need to remember that America is not the capital of God’s kingdom!

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  7. Boaz,

    I’m a bit clueless this morning. Could you please shed some light about the Rhubarb comment?

    I happen to like it and am looking forward to it this season.

    Thank you.

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  8. thank you very much for this iMonk. this is my first visit to the blog. and this reflection has been from God. what you wrote speaks so much of my church experience. thank you again…

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  9. I guess I was too excited to talk about rhubarb to finish my thought.

    Christ died on the cross to restore our relationship with God. Because of this great gift, how can we not want to tell others so they can come receive the perfect assurance that comes with his Word and Sacrament. THAT is why the church exists. To serve its members the Word and Sacrament, ie the means of grace, so that they may retain the comfort of Christ’s promises and bear each others burdens.

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  10. IM, take comfort in the gospel. As Cwirla always says, Christ died … FOR YOU. Comforting believers with this message is why the church exists. If you aren’t finding the gospel where you are, you need a new church (preferably one that also provides the comfort that comes with Christs true promises about baptism and his body and blood).

    Whoever said this —“THE CHURCH IS NOT ABOUT ME!”— was all wrong. The church is for you because the Gospel is … FOR YOU. Christ did not die on the cross so you could go to church and feel good about yourself, to find a sense of community, to hear about how to improve your marriage or raise your kids better. Christ died on the cross to restore our relationship with God. Because of this great gift, how can we not want to tell others so they can come receive the perfect assurance that comes with his Word and Sacrament.

    A comforting Lutheran blurb from a great blog (with a funny Lutherism in bold.)

    Tribulation serves a purpose

    “Wait upon the Lord! Be of good cheer! (Psalm 27:14) Were there no such thing as tribulation to try Christian faith, what would become of secure, indolent, self-indulgent Christians? Surely, the same as has befallen the papacy! Inasmuch as tribulation serves the same purpose as rhubarb, myrrh, aloes, or an antidote against all the worms, poison, decay, and dung of this body of death, it ought not to be despised. We must not willfully seek or select afflictions, but we must accept those which God sees fit to visit upon us, for he knows which are suitable and salutary for us and how many and how heavy they should be. Therefore, be steadfast!”

    Luther
    To Anthony Lauterbach, March 10, 1542
    Letters of Spiritual Counsel, p. 165.

    http://mercyjourney.blogspot.com/2009/03/tribulation-serves-purpose.html

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  11. Fred,

    I empathize with your plight, brother. It sounds very familiar to the first church I became a member of, as a new Christian. When I first started attending there, I thought it was a healthy church. It seemed to be healthy, from my perspective at the time.

    However, over time, there was dictatorial behavior from the senior pastor (including breaking up perfectly good Sunday School classes in order to start small groups, and also, embezzling from the church!), serious in-fighting among members, and less and less of a Biblical focus to the preaching. Eventually, it became a very discouraging, almost poisonous, atmosphere for me. I finally left and found a healthier, vibrant, Gospel-centered church, but leaving was painful too.

    I’m not sure where you live, Fred (U.S., Canada, Europe, another part of the world), but this website helped me to find a healthier church: http://www.9marks.org/

    If you feel led, you can go there, click on the “Church Search” link, and see if there is a church anywhere within driving distance for you which looks promising.

    This comment might seem strange, on a post which is about not being *able* to “church shop” (and I don’t encourage a “church shopping” mentality, in a *shallow* way), but there are times when it is better, if possible, to leave one’s current church and seek membership elsewhere.

    Fred, whatever lies ahead for you, I will be praying for you and your wife. Please take care, brother.

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  14. So much that I identify with in this post as my wife and I find ouselves in a situaton at our present church (SBC and my home church) where the steep slide into CCM style worship, casual approach to God in worship, PDL and 40 days seeming to try to creep back in again and all that goes with all that this direction brings and more.

    My wife who desired to help out with pre-school and childern – put over that program only to be
    dumped on, to the point of sickness, by parents who want A, B, C, D….. for “the kids” but unwilling to help or assist, for the most part, though they could criticize, complain and “talk about” with the best of them. My wife gets literally ill – physically sick having to deal with that mess. She has resigned all her positions and all but refuses to attend much anymore.

    I’m watching the once rich heritage of music and worship being totally obliterated by the backers of praise and worship – aka: CCM – both are the same, for the most part, in the current music scene. People are no longer taught about hymnody, about the doctrine and theology that exists in the foundational hymns and sacred music of the church –
    we can’t even hold a hymnal to sing because it’s said to be a destraction to worship…. really?….
    where did that nonsense come from?????????

    Well this is too long already – one last item. We are looking to hire our 6th music director in the last 5 years (no you didn’t read that wrong) and the congregation has been asked for input as to what they would like to see in a music director and music program. Many of the comments coming in have stated that a “strong emphasis on P&W (CCM) but the occasional use hymns was important” – key word was OCCASIONAL – meaning very little or none.

    With all that said – in all likelyhood folks, I’ll be submitting my resignation as organist at the end of April or first part of May. Want to get through Easter but, I’ve finally come to the end of my rope with this mess and, for the moment, the SBC and my wife and I need to step back – it will be difficult but the time has come and I fear if we wait any longer then step back we may never go back at all period and that’s not an option I really want to entertain – the time is now.

    The Guy from Knoxville

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  15. Oh wow… Thanks.

    It’s getting lonely here at the fringe. Wish there was something more happening, something more going on.

    Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about starting a community, I have rather concrete plans… but I face two things most of the time: I’m alone, and am not even sure what God’s intention would be… Let alone financials.

    Anyway, thanks for letting me know that I’m not alone in this. I just wish I had some friends who could relate to this…

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  16. iMonk–I never grow weary of your daily ‘preaching’ online, it is a blessing in my life and I thank God for the day I found you–or rather He lead me to you!

    God bless and keep writing.

    🙂

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  17. I know you Yanks don’t care much about what happens outside your borders, but in case anyone does this phenomenon happens here too and I meet people all the time who face this predicament.
    We spent a while church shopping before we found a church that we were reasonably comfortable to stay. I hated the shopping exercise but it was necessary. We are Pentecostal megachurch refugees and had to lower our expectations down to two things: A church that is not afraid to preach the native gospel but is also willing to get its hands dirty with some outreach ministry and not just consume all its waking hours debating doctrine and ‘defending the truth’. We wanted to keep away from contemporary synthetic preaching (90% pop psychology and 10% gospel if you’re lucky).

    We settled for something that is further away and smaller than what we would have liked, in exchange for the two things I mentioned above. The church is anything but sleek and ‘professional’ in its presentation and is not obsessed about doing everything ‘with a spirit of excellence’, yet we find this refreshing.

    We have a weekly outreach outside an inner city Salvation Army home shelter, where we hire a van and use it to distribute food and hot beverages. We feed them and then talk to them. We pick them up on Sunday evenings if they want to come to our service and many of them do. What they hear is not a self-esteem boosting, but straight simple gospel. Repentance AND forgiveness of sins is never missing from the menu.

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  18. I like the discussion around church being “all about me”. It is and it isn’t, in big ways. We all attend a church for varying reasons. For me, I worship through music. My last church had a praise band and blended worship music. This was my first praise band. I had to get use to it, but now find that I can worship through praise music. So it is about me, or at least what I need to get to that place to worship.

    We have recently relocated overseas and have only one church to choose from. It is more evangelical than we are used to. The preaching is done by different men (I’m not sure if they allow women), there is no paid staff. Most of the speakers have M.Div’s or more, so it’s not lay preaching. While I often don’t agree with their interpretation of things, I am really enjoying the sermon part of worship more now.

    We move a lot and have had to “church shop” several times. We never seem to find the right church first and usually change after a year or so. I’m not sure why that is. The last time, we changed and found a wonderful church, but the minster left and the next one completely changed the church. We stuck it out because we were emotionally invested in the church. We should have left. I don’t know if we will ever be that active in a church again. I know a lot of good pastors, so I realize that ours was the exception, but the trust is gone.

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  19. Church Shopping.

    What I consider church shopping is a family who’s lived in an area for 20 years, attends nearly every week, and has change churches every year or few for the entire 20 years. They need to quit shopping and buy something.

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  20. “There is an Episcopal church that I could visit. After reading the description of the Anglican service I am thinking that if it is similar and I go into the service with no expectation of being noticed, maybe I can get past this anxiety about saying or doing the wrong thing. Seems like most of the scholars I read, N. T. Wright, for example, come from the Anglican church.”

    Just understand there are two major Anglican church groups in the US with each having sub groups. There’s the original Episcopal church in the US which is now almost in a civil war. There’s the original and the splitting off groups. Also there are several Anglican associations planting churches under the authority of overseas Biships. Rowandan, South African, and Singapore I think. AMiA is under the Anglican bishop in Rowanda. I really like them. Other Anglican associations would be very different.

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  21. Thanks monk for the LDS commentary. I altered my name so as not to be confused as LDS. LDS do have a different Jesus and a different gospel. One of the things we should do that they do is visit our families on a regular basis. I have tried to get this organized at my own church, but I have found that unless the pastor is involved in some way the majority of the body does not think it is important enough to get involved.

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  22. I’ve been in a Spanish Mass in San Antonio, TX, and although I don’t speak a lick of Spanish, I still “knew” what was happening. — MAJ Tony

    Same thing the time I was at an event on Holy Saturday years ago and had to attend Easter Vigil Mass at the nearest parish to the event. Didn’t know it was an ethnic parish (Viet) until I got there and found I was the only round-eyed Anglo at that Mass. I was doing the responses in English while everyone else around me was doing them in Vietnamese. Really felt “separated from my tribe” with the Liturgy being the only point of familiarity, though the local congregation made me feel welcome starting at the Greeting of Peace and continuing through the post-Mass reception.

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  23. Church Hopper,

    I don’t consider trying a variety of local churches to find the one where you can both worship and serve to be church hopping. That is just seeking. I do recommend that you have a source of spiritual food while doing so. For me, at one time, it was taking a semester of systematic theology, which church hunting. There is nothing wrong, either with deciding that a church is not right for you, after giving it a good try and trying to make it work.

    Sarah,

    May God bless you on your journey, and may you find more than what you are looking for.

    As a Catholic in a metropolitan area, I have an advantage. If things get too bad at my parish, I can always go to one where at least I can worship better. It doesn’t help in learning the people that I am with, but it isn’t happening at my home so what’s the difference. SIGH.

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  24. I would say that another person who feels stuck in the church shopping situation is the disabled person who is not able to drive or has limited mobility. Even in a metropolitian area where there are plenty of churches, a person with disabilities is still rather limited in where they can attend or in how much they can become involved. It can be frustrating to attend on Sundays and hear about all the activities that are going during the week and realize that you don’t even really have the option of participating in most of them.

    That being the case, I wouldn’t want to become like some of the “church-hoppers” I have known. They either seem to be those who constantly switch over insignificant matters, or they tend to be extremely rigid and precise in their doctrinal and spiritual requirements and leave when they realize the church is full of human beings who can’t live up to their standards. Of course there is a time and place to switch churches, it just shouldn’t be done at the drop of a hat. Sometimes it can just be a trick of the devil to keep us unhappy and focused on minutiae. I believe the Screwtape Letters had something to say on that topic.

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  25. Fred,
    your story really breaks my heart.
    I have seen most of that happen myself, but only through a combination of about 4 or 5 different churches. To see it all happen in one church much less the one you have invested your life in is nothing short of traumatic.

    My parents are in a similar situation, and with the same church government problem, (though not as severe). The church is almost bare on Sunday, and though the pastor has driven off many, he is NOT to be questioned.
    I think the denomination goes without saying here.

    My dad has been a loyalist to a fault. I can only sympathize with his good intentions while observing the shipwreck. He is now hanging on by a thread and starting to consider other churches.

    But he knows one thing for sure: God has told Him clearly, “Don’t you dare leave [pastor’s name here]”
    Not because the pastor is a prophet like Moses. But because God has called him there for a purpose.

    The pastor has recently fallen deathly ill. The doctors after a month are still unsure what it is or if he will survive. My dad is holding the church together in his absence.

    And I can only wonder if the purpose that God has called him there may become clear sometime soon.

    Hang in the bro. No situation is beyond the reach of God’s miraculous power and I pray that he brings you some encouragement soon.

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  26. Lance,

    I would have to say that “THE CHURCH” however one defines it (i.e. Rome vs Prot, etc.) is the “Bride of Christ” and this is alluded to in Holy Scripture.

    Side Note, applicable to the topic: One of the features of the Latin Rite (Western Catholicism) is the Liturgy is the same wherever you go. I’ve been in a Spanish Mass in San Antonio, TX, and although I don’t speak a lick of Spanish, I still “knew” what was happening.

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  27. To the Church Shopper: When you move to a new town, you should look around. As a pastor I tell newcomers to town to go ahead and explore other churches before they commit to us. This is for a couple of reasons. One is that it can communicate that I am concerned about them as people, not just tools I can use to make myself look better. Also, they may as well get it right when at the start. Why find out in six months that we are not charismatic, or contemporary, or traditional enough and THEN move? The use of church shopping in this thread I think has more to do with those who just kind of float from place to place based on flimsy reasons. Which brings me to –
    ProdigalSarah: You maybe should shop a little. You have said A LOT about your current church. I am speaking as a pastor who maybe cares less about buildings and numbers than most of my colleagues. Find a church where you could get to know your pastor. There are lots of ways I get closer to some in my church than others. It can be purely social. I have found the ones who like the same outdoor activities as me. We’re just friends. Others get involved in certain ministries and I get to know them that way. Others are just pretty aggressive socially. If your pastor(s) can’t be gotten to, go somewhere else. Its not that you will become best friends with them, its just that you would like to have some kind of relationship. It is not too much to ask.
    DSY

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  28. Lance:

    You are aware the evangelicals don’t consider the LDS to be a church, right?

    I appreciate what you’re saying, but you need to realize that on our side of the road, we consider the LDS to be a different Gospel about a different Jesus from a different scripture all from a different God who said, via a “prophet,” that all of Christianity was apostate except your religion.

    I don’t want you to be surprised when someone out there shares with you that we don’t see the LDS as part of the Christian church.

    As I said, I respect and appreciate your beliefs, but we need to acknowledge this issue.

    peace

    ms

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  29. “God’s part in all of this is the most difficult part of all. Why you? Why here? Why this? Why Lord?”

    Enough to bring tears to the eyes.

    1999 church runs ~140

    new pastor

    2004 church runs ~80 and is down $20k embezzled dollars

    new pastor

    2006 church runs low 40’s and has been publically impugned on the now former pastors web blog

    new pastor

    2009 church runs low 20’s

    I stand among the last of the leadership there when the most recent Pastor was brought in (hired). I’m almost at the end of my endurance – if not beyond that point already. It is getting to the point that it is a major effort just to jack up enough… something… to even go back in for services.

    All of those who have left have been major participants in one way or another in keeping the church alive during especially the two most recent transistions. While none them have given any specifics regarding why they are leaving (just a generic “The Lord has called me out”), for most of them there are things which one can point to which to them were important ministry contributions to the church and which appear to have been hindered or outright taken over by the pastor. The leaders are then unneeded.

    When my wife and I recently met to say that we were feeling we needed to step back from what we are doing the meeting turned into a very tense and fractious… confrontation. We were told we couldn’t pull back because it would reflect bad. At another time told that if we pulled back we’d need to leave the church entirely or else he would leave. And a few other things which are hard to recall – probably because I’d like to forget it all. On top of this, I know the rules. There is no debate about things like this in this fellowship (denomination). I’ve been a part of this fellowship literally all my life (I’m 51). I’ve known all along the position they take on pastors; that in all except severe cases the pastor is to be unquestioned. I am sooooo not a part of that thinking any more. I can’t hardly stand it.

    The problem is I _care_ about the church – started attending in the eighties and served for fifteen years alongside the pastor we had up until 1998. I _care_ about the people – those that are left. And there isn’t anywhere to go. Not much out there at all for one thing and those that do exist I have visited in past times with no real prospects found. Much of this post is so familiar.

    What do you do when you find yourself totally absoutely stuck?

    Why is it so hard to just have a place to go where you can worship God in Spirit and truth as He desires and leave all the politics and trash at the door – or better yet out in the dumpster where it belongs?

    I read recently that a person dies around the world every eight seconds. The word says that wide is the road to destruction and conversely narrow the road to life and few there are that find it. Of all the people dying one can reasonably conclude that many may not find eternal life. But we spend our time fighting for position and worried about how we look.

    The end of the rope is before me and someone turned off the light at the end of the tunnel.

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  30. ProdigalSarah:
    You wrote:
    “I need to hear that over and over. THE CHURCH IS NOT ABOUT ME!”

    I tell myself this all the time. But is it true?

    If the church isn’t about me, is it also not about the elderly lady I find to sit with whenever she is well enough to attend? Is it also not about the ladies I visit at the nursing home? I’m sorry but we all have needs to one degree or another. We are conflicted. We doubt, feel pain and disappointments. If we can’t acknowledge this honestly, if we’re supposed to be wear perpetual smiles and say all is wonderful, who are we deceiving?

    I can understand your confusion. As I see it, the Church is not about you.. only.. The Church is about You and Jesus Christ. It is about your relationship between you and Him. The relationship between you and Jesus Christ drive all of the wonderful things you can do for each other. The Organized Religions allow a way to provide things to help the temporal needs of the people as well as their spiritual needs.

    In our Church (the LDS Church), the Church organization and structure provides the means (people and monitary) to provide all that Jesus Christ told us to do. Things like perfecting our relationship with Jesus Christ (we can never be perfect, but we can strive to it), provide relief for those in need (clothes, food, shelter, etc), education (we have education funds for those that need them including Brigham Young University), Scripture Study (Seminary Classes for those in High School and Institute Classes for those in College), etc..

    But these things are not “THE CHURCH”. They are the Church. “THE CHURCH” is really your personal relationship with Jesus Christ and his Doctrine. The Church is the organization of the people.

    Does this make sense?

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  32. …wow…I need a Jackson Pollock painting to describe what I’m feeling right now…

    Imonk…thanks for letting me know I’m not alone…

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  33. So, what are you supposed to do when you move to a small town in the Bible Belt that has hundreds of churches of varying denominations? How can you find a church without “church-shopping”? Or maybe I don’t understand the term. It is overwhelming. I feel like I’m going through sorority rush.

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  34. Kat, I suppose I am beginning to fear that “It’s not about me” is evolving into “It’s not for me.” The church, I mean. The more I am haunted by these thoughts, the tighter I cling to Christ.

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  36. Great post! I feel that I resonate with many of the comments here. The ideal church is not a present reality though.

    Just one thing though: I don’t really want to sound like a spokesperson for Rick Warren here, because I know he needs no defense and people here both criticize and support him over different things.

    But it does bother me to always here the purpose driven/seeker sensitive thing thrown around like they are so parallel. Seeker sensitivity involved rampant iconoclasm for the purpose of using worship as an evangelistic tool. It’s proponents, or originators at least, have pretty much recanted.

    The thrust of the purpose driven method, however, is about growth WITHOUT changing your message.
    It’s not perfect and I don’t feel they live 100% up to that at all times, but I feel if the message stays the same, I could be at home even in the wilderness of strange forms provided the message was the same and Christ was always deliberately at the center.

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  37. Prodigal Sarah-
    Good point. The church is the whole body of Christ. When I said that, I guess I meant that it isn’t about my preferences, my style of worship, my comfort zone, my box.

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  38. “I need to hear that over and over. THE CHURCH IS NOT ABOUT ME!”

    I tell myself this all the time. But is it true?

    If the church isn’t about me, is it also not about the elderly lady I find to sit with whenever she is well enough to attend? Is it also not about the ladies I visit at the nursing home? I’m sorry but we all have needs to one degree or another. We are conflicted. We doubt, feel pain and disappointments. If we can’t acknowledge this honestly, if we’re supposed to be wear perpetual smiles and say all is wonderful, who are we deceiving?

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  39. Thanks Michael. I’m one of evangelicals “who appreciates the broader, deeper, more ancient church and … forced into the seeker-sensitive, purpose driven wilderness.”

    Appreciate your posts so much.

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  41. I have lived many years in a small town, with a small rural church, with many warts, many financial and physical plant struggles, the same problems with participation, the same homilies, and the same liturgy. And I must say that it is always a joy to visit another Church with beautiful architecture, to hear a sermon that is more intellectual or more stirring, or see a community that is more vibrant. A community where someone else is helping out and we are just congregants.

    But something is missing in those greener pastures. too.

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  42. On the one hand
    If my church exceeded every expectation I might be tempted to live my life church-centered, instead of Christ centered. That would be idolatry.

    On the other hand
    I don’t think it is healthy to lay awake all night on Saturday night worrying that I’m going to make yet another mistake at church, say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing and leave feeling even more alienated. Yes, I know it is not about me. I go to church to worship with others. However, I seem to be incapable of taking these anxieties out of the equation. This is my problem and I pray about it a lot.

    I am seriously considering asking my pastor if I can be taken off the membership roll and become a regular visitor. This is what I feel like, anyway. Part of my anxiety comes from being a member, but not feeling that I can give myself wholeheartedly to this commitment. This may not make much sense, but my situation is a bit complicated.

    I’m not interested in becoming a church shopper. I have visited a number of churches over the past couple of years, while visiting friends and family. Styles of worship varied widely. Fortunately none resembled that entertainment church. Whatever the style of worship I always find it more uplifting when worshiping with a friend. I think it is easier to feel alienated when attending church alone.

    There is an Episcopal church that I could visit. After reading the description of the Anglican service I am thinking that if it is similar and I go into the service with no expectation of being noticed, maybe I can get past this anxiety about saying or doing the wrong thing. Seems like most of the scholars I read, N. T. Wright, for example, come from the Anglican church.

    Sorry for rambling. These are my confused thoughts. One thing about confusion, it does keep me praying. A lot.

    To the pastors reading this blog, please realize there are likely some in your own congregation who feel confused and conflicted or alienated. When you can’t spare the time to talk because there are too many meetings scheduled about that massive new building project, or how to finance that recent building expansion (the church equivalent of the McMansion) or you need to referee a dispute about the color of the carpet for that new building that nobody can figure out how to pay for, or there is yet another conference to attend on growing membership to justify expansion, our alienation only deepens. I go to a church that talks quite a bit about inclusively. But what does that mean? Being tolerant of fads, fashion trends, music styles? I sometimes think we will embrace anything so long as we don’t actually have to embrace a living, breathing, imperfect human being.

    Who is your neighbor?
    The one that shows mercy.

    A church should be a good neighbor. Community outreach is great.

    But some of us already sitting in the pews also feel abandoned and left for dead. For some of us life has left us feeing bruised and naked. All I’m asking, please put aside the never-ending commitments to growing the church for just a few moments and realize that some of us are hurting.

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  43. “Maybe all of this is not about me. Maybe my exile in a Church that does not fit me and what I perceive my needs to be is what the other members of that Church need. Maybe that is where I can really find the Kingdom of God.”
    I think Abouna Justin has really nailed it. Thank you…and thank you, IMonk, for giving him a place to say it!
    I need to hear that over and over. THE CHURCH IS NOT ABOUT ME!

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  44. Being in the kingdom and being like Christ is about serving. If we take the focus off of ourselves and focus on serving others with our unique gifts at our local church. If the music is too loud then maybe the nursery is for you. There are a few things that frustrate me where I am, but I remain committed to people in the church, including the pastor. Our command is to make disciples. If you are a mature Christian with the ability to disciple another, you can do that anywhere.

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  48. I am a priest in the ancient Church of Antioch. I had never heard of shopping around until I attended an evengelical seminary. I agree so deeply with much of what has been posted.

    One of the problems with shopping for the style that fits is that styles change in a season. In Church terms, pastors move on, worship bands break up, powerpoint projectors never work right (let’s just be honest). All that shopping just leads to more shopping.

    The 4th century monastic mothers and fathers who left all of the “shopping” to go out into the desert, went into exile. In many cases, they deliberately went to a place where they did not know the language or customs so that they could focus on their true membership in the Kingdom. Often, local people would find out that there was a monastic living in a cave nearby and would seek that person out for counsel and blessing.

    Maybe all of this is not about me. Maybe my exile in a Church that does not fit me and what I perceive my needs to be is what the other members of that Church need. Maybe that is where I can really find the Kingdom of God.

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  49. Thanks, Michael.
    I have been feeling out of step with American evangelicalism for a long time now. The old Irish hymn “Be Thou My Vision” has come to mean an awful lot to me lately. And I echo pbandj’s and Todd’s words — the honesty on this blog is what keeps me coming back.

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  50. Thank you Michael.
    I am in exactly this place. Your last line is ringing true for me these days. “You’re not alone, and God hasn’t left any of us. In fact, in this evangelical wilderness, he may be closer than you ever thought.”

    I really appreciate your honesty on this blog.

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  52. I may have commented on this the first time around. We go to a wonderful church, with wonderful caring people. The problem is that because of theological distinctives, we can’t be members. The same goes for the only other church in the area. So we belong, yet don’t belong. To the credit to the elders they have made decisions that now allow us to minister using our spiritual gifts, but it is far from ideal. So I can certainly relate very much to the post.

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  53. I can relate…

    Yet I would say, for those who AREN’T locked into this discipline of loneliness, that “being on the fringe of the church” is NOT God’s best for the average believer, any more than marriage to the unconverted is His best for a Christian man or woman.

    Redeemed marriage is one of God’s sweetest gifts to (some of) His children. Fellowship in a Gospel-centered congregation is just as sweet in its own way. The fact that some marriages are hard and many churches are cold should not suggest we marry anybody or attend anywhere.

    May God bless every faithful husband who shows Christ’s love to a faithless wife, and may God bless every faithful Christian who shows Christ’s love to a dysfunctional congregation–especially if that faithful Christian is that church’s pastor. But may He also deliver us from the temptation to bitterness that always lurks outside our door when our good desire for requited love or true fellowship go unfulfilled.

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  54. Monk,

    Right on target!

    I grow weary with those who so carefully conduct their worship quest in misguided efforts to assess, rank, evaluate, and define “the most spiritual” worship mechanics.

    It often seems we’re so hung up in defining our worship behaviors, that we expect to be the ultimate markers, that we miss the reality of God working His purposes in all things and in all people.

    My view of the Creator is deepening to accept that He is able, and He is at work, to resolve the cacophony in our expressions of individual preference for corporate worship styles.

    Therefore I’m finding great peace in aloneness with my Savior while offering myself in worship in out of the way places and times.

    My presence at most corporate worship services tends to be driven by a respect for others, who are on their own quest for true worship, rather than my direct personal engagement in any particular style.

    Maintaining a respectful stance, or joining in the choreographed acceptable worship behaviors, at most corporate worship events far overshadows any personal engagement or personal encounter with the Lord God.

    In fact I fear the mechanics, of much in worship, have become a poor substitute for the Reality.

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