This post is from November of ’04. It’s a little quote from Martin Luther that’s the kind of anti-legalism/moralism injection all of us need occasionally. Some of you won’t like it for better reasons than others. I like it because Luther gets Jesus and isn’t afraid to be provocative to help me get him too.
This woud be a great excuse for you to buy the NRP “Weak on Sanctification” t-shirt.
“Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to.” -Martin Luther
Martin Luther is certainly my favorite person in church history. Time and again his grasp of the Gospel and unabashed honest humanity have come to my rescue. Luther has an ability to make the Gospel as outrageous as possible, and to chase the rats of legalism out of the attic before they make a nest.
The above quote is a good example. Luther recommending sin? Well…he doesn’t mean adultery or stealing. What Luther is talking about here is something C.S. Lewis talks about in Chapter 14 of The Screwtape Letters: the particular temptations that come to the person who is aware of his/her own righteousness. Even if it is an awareness of love, forgiveness or humility– all bring the possibility of self-centeredness and pride. But Lewis (and Luther) were especially aware of the spiritual dangers of trying to not sin. Yes…trying to not sin.
Since encouraging people to try and not sin is a major occupation of confused evangelicalism, Luther sounds strange. But it’s clear what he means: we can’t get caught in the trap of trying to generate our own righteousness, even in the name of obedience. Luther’s encouragement to sin just to spite the devil is his provocative way of suggesting a Christian TRUST CHRIST and have confidence in justification by faith. So much so, that instead of living in a state of perpetual self-examination, we live with the freedom to be less than perfect.
Isn’t sinning intentionally a really bad thing? A Christian’s attitude toward sin must be based on a thorough acceptance of the fact that our depravity isn’t going to be erased by efforts. Even our righteousness and obedience are thoroughly tainted with sin. Luther says we need to take the sting out of the devil’s condemnation with a willingness to be human, and rejoice that God loves us and Christ died for us.
Let Luther bother you a bit. Particularly if you are starting to get miserable in this Christian life, and wonder where the laughter and honesty are among Christians. We can find it again, but it comes with embracing justification by faith existentially, and not just as a doctrine.
The Internet Monk Archives 
Of course we can’t live our lives in Christ as worldly self-focused people. Unfortunately, Marty’s quote shows how self-righteous he actually was.
We Christians surely are called to strive toward the goal, love our neighbors, etc.
Read 1Cor. 10:23-31 for a discussion on the freedom we have in Christ: “Everything is permissible”—but not everything is beneficial…
Proverbs, along with common sense, has plenty to say regarding the perils of drunkenness.
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One other thing of great importance. This is where Calvinism beats luckism to pieces. We are saved by the grace of Jesus through faith in Him alone. We are forever saved and cannot lose our salvation. If it were possible for us to lose our salvation, then we would. When you know that our eternal destiny rests 100% on Jesus Christ, it removes a burden from us that we were never equipped to carry. “When we sin, we have an advocate with the Father”
Remember, the worst sin by far is pride. It is satan’s original sin. When you struggle against sin and mourn and weep over your sin and trust only in Jesus for your salvation, where is pride?
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The most miserable of all people is the one who tries to be righteous in his flesh. If we struggle against a besetting sin, and pray for deliverance, God knows that if we do overcome, PRIDE will creep in– which will be 7 times worse than the sin we overcame.
His grace is sufficient!! Praise Him guys!
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Just struck me, that I forgot to comment on something Pr. Cwirla said. The “Weak on Sanctification” t-shirt is a very bad idea. Or, put it this way, it is as a good as an idea as walking around with a t-shirt that says, “Weak on the Gospel” or “Weak on Christ” or “Weak on justification.”
I understand the threat of legalism, but I’ve also seen the problems of antinomianism crop up in Lutheran circles I’m familiar with, people abusing the doctrine of the Gospel and the understanding of sanctification, to justify persisting in sinful behaviors.
I ran across a bunch of thirty-somethings a few years back trying to convince me that Christians could “enjoy” slasher-porn movies. Yup.
Weak on sanctification? To be sure. It is not something to joke about, or brag about, but to confess and repent of.
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Ouch, Monk! your comment about Lutheran church planting hurts! The truth is, 20 yrs after evangelicals, the LC-MS is deep in the throes of the church growth movement. We’re actually doing a fair deal of church planting, but you wouldn’t recognize us. Instead of capitalizing on gems like the distinction between law and gospel, grace, and justification by faith which could set us apart, our new churches look an awful lot like any evangelical church built around the attractional model rather than the Great Commission.
Lutherans are just venturing into the vast wasteland that you are fleeing (venturing isn’t the word for it;actually, we are diving headfirst into the shallow end of the pool with our eyes closed). That’s why you resonate with me and other Lutherans so much!
For some great vintage monk, go to one of my favorites and my introduction to the world of iMonk: “Throw Luther from the Train.” You’ll find it in the archives!
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Oh, by the way, I’d recommend to folks who want to read what Martin Luther was all about, down to his toes, to read what he regarded as one of his best books: The Small Catechism, and then check out a document he wrote, convinced while he was writing it he was soon going to die, called The Smalcald Articles.
You tend to say what is on your heart when you are trying to explain the Christian faith to children and their parents, as he does in the Small Catechism, and when you think you may be writing your own last will and testament, as he did with the Smalcald Articles.
Those interested can find both of these documents here:
http://www.bookofconcord.org
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Ah, yes, the famous “sin boldly” quote from Luther. I can’t think of many things the man said, of the about a billion things he did say, or write, that has so horribly misunderstood and misapplied, by Roman Catholics and Protestants alike. The ecumenical Luther, if you will.
Interesting to read this chat about it.
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The Pharisees thought of Christ as a drunken glutton, but was he? Scripture seems to indicate that they were judging with a “guilt by association” attitude.
A legalist is blind to the sin they already have. I am suggesting that the antidote is not go sin a little more, but its to recognize the sin we already have.
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Luther’s “On Christian Freedom” is my favorite.
Luther is strong on sanctification there:
“Here is the truly Christian life, here is faith really working by love, when a man applies himself with joy and love to the works of that freest servitude in which he serves others voluntarily and for nought, himself abundantly satisfied in the fullness and riches of his own faith.”
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the “be ye perfect” thing – i just don’t see Jesus looking at the Pharisees big long list and grabbing it from their hands and pushing it at me.
In fact, what i love about Jesus most i think is that He boiled it all down to two things – Love God, Love others as yourself.
Now, i was brought up a “don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t chew, don’t dance, don’t etc etc..” and i still don’t do any of those things (although i would love to be able to dance, but i think my dancer is permanently burned or inhibited by my previous life 🙂
But i think when Jesus says “be perfect as I am perfect” – can we look at this other saying, as well? Being perfect *starts* and ends with loving God and loving others. Now just those two things could take me my whole life to master, and in doing that, i know He will change in (and has changed me, and is continuing to change me) – and other things will be pulled out or planted… But why get all “this means i have to do all 653 things commanded all at once, perfectly…”
Like a previous poster wrote, it’s a form of religious OCD. I am trying, very deliberately, to extricate myself from religion, and only do what i hear God saying to me. Just about impossible! I’m married (14 years) so dh has a say, i’ve got seven little children that i worry about screwing up – and yet, i know if i could find a way to be free from religion, they would be free, too – and maybe they would grow a way that i can’t even imagine…
We are going to church again after “doing homechurch” for years. and it’s hard – all those little extras that are tucked into every single thing. all of the polite ways that denigrate truth or politely ignore when truth is deftly deked…
i’m loving this blog for being bold *for* me. I’m exploring this or trying to on my blog, with my friends, but i love reading here (and the comments too) and feeling a kinship, that i’m not alone in feeling like there’s more going on than i’m comfortable with…
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Petra: “…the world was created by God and everything that is good and beautiful about it comes from Him. Maybe you can thank God for the composers’, filmmakers’, actors’ and performers’ talent when you watch a movie or listen to a piece of music? … I have enjoyed music, art, nature etc. much more than before, because I am now seeing God’s hand in it…”
Thank you, Petra. That is a very helpful perspective.
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The only two major “sins” that Christians were explicitly warned to avoid in the NT are idolatry and sexual immorality.
We become so focused on activities like drinking, entertainment and vices that we overlook the fact that people are losing faith in Christ and surrending to sexual anarchy.
Let’s stop straining for gnats and focus on the camels (Matt. 23:24).
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Jesus said the Pharisees considered him to be a drunkard and a glutton.
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I love Luther’s thought, but is it scriptural? I am certainly against legalism, but where do we find Christ, in his repudiation of the legalism of his day, as demonstrated with the Pharisees and Saducees, ever advocating that we go out and sin a little? And how do we reconcile this with his admonition of “Be ye perfect, just as my father is perfect.”?
I have another view that I think reconciles with these passages well.
We already have such sin in our lives. Why would we need to go add a little more unless we were blind to the sin we already have?
We need to open our eyes and hearts to see that even in our attempts at being perfect, we are NOT perfect and therefore ultimately rely on God’s grace.
I don’t need to get a little tipsy to thwart legalism. I broke the speed limit yesterday, lusted after a beautiful woman just a few days before, and have been proudful more times than I can count all SINCE coming to Christ!
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And, it could also be that Martin Luther had a sense of humor.
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Just one thing —
Does this mean that my own father who identified himself as a confirmed atheist was also not a smelly alcoholic …?
All those defiant cigar smoking boozing days and nights he was a Lutheran all along.
My mother tells me he picked up those habits in Germany at the end of WWII. I guess it was some sort of ancient religious osmosis, or something …. 🙂
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We should be careful not to miss, or maybe skirt or too lightly hit on what I believe to be the main point of Luther’s comment. That is, that when we face temptation, rather than focusing on resisting it, which is drudgery and a losing battle, we are to flee it, run from it, as the Bible so often instructs. But when running FROM something we have to be running TO something at the same time. Thus, Luther is advocating running to Christ and, yes, enjoying all the freedom and delight He affords us. In such fellowship with Him, seeking to please Him and enjoy Him, there is no sin, even if it includes enjoying a celebratory champaign or glass of wine or loud and raucous laughing.
Basically, we are to show both Satan and ourselves that we have something BETTER than that with which he was tempting us. When he offers us empty cotton candy, we’re to run to Christ and enjoy the smorgasbord of incredibly rich and satisfying delectables He affords us. In the process, we may be required to get our minds used to the idea that deep, rich chocolate really IS better than cotton candy, but that’s where trust comes in; we trust that Christ really does provide fullness and richness in our lives. He IS the Richness, He IS the Fullness, He IS the Satisfaction. As we practice what Luther suggests, we gradually learn this to be true, and no longer desire anything else.
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As someone who suffers from obsessive-compulsive disorder that frequently manifests as scrupulosity (religious OCD, basically), this post nearly made me cry in relief. Thank you, thank you, a thousand times thank you, iMonk.
Regarding the subsequent discussion about when it’s appropriate to be hard on ourselves and when it’s appropriate to take Luther’s quoted advice, I think for a a lot of us it’s both at different times or in regard to different things. One of the areas in which I most need the stern words of the Law is getting off my dead duff and actively using my talents for the glory of God, but “bean-counting my Brownie Points With God” is something I do constantly and habitually, and breaking myself out of that anxiety loop is absolutely essential to my getting anything done at all, frankly.
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“Should we seek to improve ourselves? Yes, by all means, but one way we usually need to improve is in the way of humility.”
nicely put
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@treebeard:
Maybe it could help you if you thought about the fact that the world was created by God and everything that is good and beautiful about it comes from Him. Maybe you can thank God for the composers’, filmmakers’, actors’ and performers’ talent when you watch a movie or listen to a piece of music?
I have actually made the experience myself that since I’m a Christian (I’m a Catholic) – I used to be an agnostic before -, I have enjoyed music, art, nature etc. much more than before, because I am now seeing God’s hand in it…
About the Luther quote: I also found it somewhat troubling – like someone else above – that Luther is calling having harmless fun “sinning”. I mean Jesus “ate and drank” all the time, and he wasn’t sinning even a bit, quite evidently…
Ascetism is very important in the Christian life, but it doesn’t contradict enjoying the goods of Creation – rather on the contrary… Discipline rather contributes to the good and right enjoyment of things.
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treebeard — What I discovered about what I was doing in my search for the “right church” was that I was trying to find a denomination whose take on the Gospel matched my already screwed up mindset. One “answer” is to find the group of “worshipers” who have the same diagnosis you have. You will definitely feel comfortable there.
But you won’t get better.
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Thank you, iMonk. Wonderful answer.
Just briefly, I think my legalisms come from my own disposition (which is a lot like Melanchthon, actually). Plus I was indeed in a very legalistic place for several years. That church was big on “denying the self,” “bearing the cross,” living by the spirit and not by the soul, etc. It became one big mess of introspection and self-criticism, reinforced by others.
Now I’m meeting with a local Vineyard, and am truly rediscovering the joy of the gospel. But the self-condemnation for trivial things still lingers. Hence my question. But your answer is great. Thanks. Maybe I need to read lots of Luther for awhile so that I can be free.
I cannot express in words how thankful I am for your blog. Much grace to you, iMonk.
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You are what that quote is all about. Separating the rules of men from the Gospel is what we must do. Many of us have been exposed to churches and teaching that flat out told us that we were to establish our own righteousness via obedience. Or that we were to guarantee our own election by perfectionistic behavior.
Here’s the thing: there are millions of people who can handle this without going nuts. And there are millions of people who, if they get under this teaching will spend their entire LIVES hating
themselves, running from and avoiding a God they fear, blaming themselves for being human and seeking to win the righteousness Olympics.
Luther is taunting the Devil for trying to draw him into that game. He knows that God loves him. God doesn’t require him to be something other than a human beings. He can live his life in the light of the Gospel without guilt and condemnation for not doing more and more and more and more (and endless search) to establish his own righteousness.
I don’t know what kind of church you are in but go somewhere you can hear the Gospel as GOD’S provision, supply, promise and not you signing up for someone’s religious definition of “a godly person.”
This kind of thing can drive you crazy. Take care of yourself.
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If I could ask a question, to iMonk and others: What do you do if you feel condemned for stupid things, that aren’t even sinful but could be considered “worldly”? The Bible says “Love not the world, nor the things of the world.” For some reason these things bother my conscience more than the obvious sins. So I listen to music in my car, or watch TV, or see a movie, and I have this gnawing sense of guilt. I know the doctine, I know Christ died for me, but that doesn’t stop the sense that I’m displeasing Him. I should be praying or reading my Bible or caring for people or something.
I really love this Luther quote, but it’s hard to shake off the self-imposed legalisms. Anyone have any suggestions? How do you get rid of the sense of condemnation? How do you silence the devil’s voice?
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So the Pope drinks and smokes — I guess he’s human, too.
Does He ____ in the woods …?
Are bears Catholic …?
(Did I mix that up, too …?) 🙂
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Seems to me that given the rise in secularism and the prevalence of easy undemanding cross-less Christianity and New Age Oprahesque fluff, excessive legalism or Jansenism is not the high priority it might have been in Luther’s time.
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surfnetter,
When the Anglican Archbishop of York showed up to meet the Pope he brought a couple cases of the local brew made in York
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Wonderful post. I’m in agreement with JohnO. I “get it”. Self incrimination is an even bigger joy killer than legalism. If the Son sets you free, you are free indeed!
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I think the word “perfect” in Mat. 5:48 is better translated “whole” or “complete”. It is from a Greek word meaning “to set out” as in accomplishing a task.
And — again – the entire discourse — right up to this line — is about how we are to behave toward each other:
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Mat 5: 43-48
Jesus is saying that this is the intrinsic nature of the Father. Be like this and you will be His sons.
It is counter intuitive — not just to those taught by the Pharisees of old, but even to our ears — The Father loves His enemies …? Is good to all …? Sends greetings to those who are not His brethren …?
Sounds to me that the Father’s love is like the sun, and the rain — indiscriminate in their blessings. And Jesus is saying that we should aspire to attain that posture with the love deposited within us.
I expect to always be a work in progress in this regard in this life.
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iMonk,
I think the problem with Matt 5:48 is only a problem when it’s not taken in the total context of the complete Gospel. That is why I believe, as a Roman Catholic, that auricular confession is the second greatest give our Lord gave us (the first being Eucharist) and having a confessor give spiritual guidance, INCLUDING keeping perspective of who we are (fallen man) and not to rely on ourselves. True WE cannot become sinless by ourselves, and probably never will (99.9999% odds.) But all things are possible with GOD, though, given our sinful nature, we tend to ignore God and give in to temptation. At least that’s been my personal impression from my own life.
I don’t see the NEED to intentionally sin. I think our human will almost guarantees that we will by default. It’s the willful, obstinate sin that’s a problem.
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I appreciate were you’re coming from. You might be interested (if you’ve not already read it) in the Conferences of John Cassian. [Some parts online are redacted b/c of the subject matter, so you might along with that, purchase, “Cassian on Chastity.”]
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Surfnetter: more likely the Pope would drink a Bavarian doppelbock, perhaps a Paulaner Salvator (aka “Holy Father Beer” http://www.allaboutbeer.com/columns/style1.html)
Denise, maybe it’s just me, but I think you’d best re-read your Bible, and pay special attention to when Jesus talks about sin, the part about “whatever you do/fail to do for the least of my brothers” and also the part about when people say “Lord, Lord…”
Not pointing fingers or judging your soul, just sayin…
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The problem I have is that when we start saying OK Matthew 5:48 is the directions for Christians to live the Christian life what’s produced isn’t pretty.
In my life, I start lying. I avoid God. I eventually despair of Christianity. If I’m like a lot of people, I get into a church where legalists lay into me for being less than perfect in my attitude, or dress, or prayer life.
I mean, this verse alone is the law in full force. The perfect that is produced by the Gospel is 1) the perfection of Jesus and 2) a genuine fruit grown in the soil of grace, not law.
I appreciate your comment.
peace
ms
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Without being disagreeable I was responding to your claim that “I know I’m not perfect and I’m not going to try and establish my righteousness by being perfect.” Which seems to be in opposition to Matt 5:48 .
Of course there a people who live that command everyday. But i don’t want to get into it because it will digress from the main topic to ascetism. I’m not one of them, but i know it is possible.
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It occurred to me today that not only does Mat. 5 change the focus of our behavior from offending God to hurting our fellow humans, but the Lord’s Prayer also does this.
And this:
Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. Mat. 5:25-26
What is this …? Purgatory …? I think not. Jesus said several times in various ways that we judge ourselves. If we don’t make amends to the people we hurt, it is our own consciences that keep us imprisoned. That’s how good those in the Spirit are — we lock ourselves up when we’re wrong.
Keeping straight with God is the easy part, I think ….
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I was coming to your church picnic, but not now. Just another showing of Facing the Giants and Ice Water. Boooo 🙂
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“Bill Cwirla: Taking All the Fun Out Of Lutheranism. ”
Nah. Just making sure you’re not cherry picking our boy Luther for fun.
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Parker W:
How’s that being perfect thing working out for you?
If that’s Christianity, let me off at the next exit.
Thank God for Law and Gospel. And for a Greek New Testament.
When Jesus said your righteousness must exceed the Pharisees, you think he was shutting me up to produce that with my obedience?
That’s shutting me up so his righteousness is the only answer.
MS
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Sorry i meant “trying to interpret in the best possible light”
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I know I’m not perfect and I’m not going to try and establish my righteousness by being perfect.
interesting,
Matt 5:48 Seems to contradict that,
“Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.”
I’m assuming God is not commanding something impossible, or is at the very least, here, asking us to try.
We seem to be making excuses for Luther’s flawed paradigm. Trying to interprete in the worst possible light, but still it’s opposition to scripture no matter how you cut it.
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Bill Cwirla: Taking All the Fun Out Of Lutheranism. 🙂
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A very common misunderstanding by those who quote Luther, but have not read him, is to fail to see the Law and the Gospel in its proper application. Luther was a master at this. To those beset by sin, guilt and the devil, Luther’s “sin boldly and have a drink” passages apply. To those who would revel in their sin and use the free forgiveness of sin as a license for sin, Luther says this:
“Listen to the Word of God, which says, ‘Keep sane and sober,’ that it may not be said to you in vain. You must not be pigs; neither do such belong among Christians. So also in 1 Cor. 6: No drunkard, whoremonger, or adulterer can be saved. Do not think that you are saved if you are a drunken pig day and night. this is a great sin, and everybody should know that this is such a great iniquity, that it makes you guilty and excludes you from eternal life. Everybody should know that such a sin is contrary to his baptism and hinders his faith and his salvation.”
Sermon on Soberness and Moderation (1539) LW 51:293-4
So it all depends on who is asking and why.
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irfan:
I really can’t write a treatise on sanctification better than When I am Weak and this one on Grace:
https://internetmonk.com/articles/G/grace.html
Let me suggest that the problem isn’t should we seek to be Holy. We should.
The problem is that we can’t do it perfectly enough to suit our consciences, the devil, religious people or the law.
Once you understand that all your righteousness is filthy rags, it makes Christ’s Gospel make sense.
Luther is just saying, “Be the prodigal and don’t try to be anything else.” Amen.
ms
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Imonk,
I first ran across your site when you re-posted the “when i am weak” article a few days ago. I must admit I found that article challenging, confusing, and maybe a little unnerving all at once. It seemed almost fatalistic to me. Can you give me a little clarity. I understand that sanctification is a process but isn’t it exactly that.
I appreciate your frankness,it was a breath of fresh air, and not often seen in the circles I run in. However, if our life is a mess, shouldn’t it be less of a mess as we go through the process of sanctification. Ten years after salvation I am certainly not the man I want to be but not the man that I once was. Shouldn’t the marks of God’s handiwork be evident outwardly (flowing from inward change of course), shouldn’t I struggle less with Pride, Envy, Lust or whatever sin besets me. Shouldn’t there be the signs of Christian maturity by which the love of Christ constrains me.
Thanks.
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In his monastery years, Luther discovered that ascetic practices (avoiding X, not doing Y, doing Z) were not the path to holiness that Jerome had touted them to be, especially when motivated by self-righteousness. (“I’m better than those people because I’m not like that”; or “At least I don’t do that….”)
If it takes a little sinning just to help you realize you’re a sinner, then by all means. It’s self-righteousness that is the most dangerous and probably the most prevalent sin of Christianity—religion simply as an ego booster.
“Those who are well have no need of a physician….”
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Irfan and others:
Luther isn’t talking about a life that sins in every way so that sin may abound. He’s talking about the demonic tactic of goading us with accusations of failing to be Christian perfectionists. This is about the tactics of the devil, not the Christians approach to all things. It means, “I know I’m not perfect and I’m not going to try and establish my righteousness by being perfect. I’m going to enjoy the grace of God in my inevitable imperfection.”
ms
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Pastor Cwirla,
C’mon, can’t we have a little fun?
Seriously though, don’t take the ‘Weak on Sanctification’ out of context. The shirts are meant more as a joke and a conversation starter. Also, we are ‘weak on sanctification’ when the term is used to mean our moral efforts to avoid sin(which is how the term is used in a lot of Evangelicalism.)
Even a casual survey of Lutheran doctrine, preaching, and the words of Luther himself, will dispel any notion that we promote antinomianism.
In addition to the above,we have no shortage of Lutheran moral and doctrinal police on the web,who are willing to liberally apply the Law in almost every situation.
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Imonk can you reconcile this quote to Romans 6:1 for me. I am very confused.
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I see that I misused “pace” as a preposition in the last comment.
What I meant was that I agree with Walther’s distinction between those who need to hear the law and those who need to hear the gospel; though Walther would certainly argue that everyone needs both preached to them at the appropriate times.
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The first phrase “when the devil harasses you” is key. Luther was a man who struggled ferociously with the demands of God’s law and the terror of damnation. Melancthon (recipient of the “sin boldly” quote) was another such soul.
I’m not like that. Pace Walther, I’m the type of Christian who sometimes needs the law preached against my complacency, laziness, and drunkenness.
Luther is not excusing or promoting these sins, far from it. Instead, he is offering a word of comfort to Christians who have a tendency to keep an inventory of every little sin and are tormented by their inability to stop sinning. Luther preached the law rather sharply against drunkenness, among other sins.
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Can this be taken as Satan is saying you shouldn’t drink because drinking can make you drunk and Luther saying enjoying a drink and having a good time isn’t a sin as long as you don’t take it too far.
I read this as rebuking the no dancing, no alcohol, no card playing, no women in slacks, no fish on Friday, etc… that we come up with to “ruleify” our Christianity.
Or am I all wet?
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Just ordered it. You just keep screwing me up in my resolve to just read crap and chick lit.
Didn’t Luther also thank God for good beer and women with big breasts?
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I’m puzzled that Ol’ Martin seems to think drinking and joking somehow constitute sin. His essential point is a good one (Biblical, even), but it seems to me that he has too scrupulous a view of what sinful behavior is.
My two cents…
Sam Urfer
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That’s a fun Luther quote and would make a “Lutheran” out of anyone who likes to drink and cuss. Of course, context is everything. This is written to one who is “harassed by the devil.” Most of us need far less motivation. Luther’s equally famous “sin boldly” quote was written to Philip Melanchthon who suffered from severe melancholy and spiritual anxiety.
Speaking as a Lutheran, I don’t think it’s wise to boast to the world that one is “weak on sanctification” since “Christ is our sanctification” (1 Cor 1:30) and good works necessarily flow from justifying faith.
I write this, lest readers get the wrong impression concerning Lutheran theology and piety.
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Thanks for this…one I had not heard!!!
Looks like Luther wrote this in 1530 in a letter to Jerome Weller. I Googled the first sentence, and the quote showed up on pg. 324 of an old book titled “The Life and Letters of Martin Luther” by Preserved Smith published in 1911.
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I read him as saying simply that it’s not all about sin. It never is. To attend to karmic acts, deeds, and thoughts alone is to stop seeking, to stifle the active spirit. The cleverest devil would heap congratulations on the man who had put his whole effort into abstaining from sinful acts, saying, “You win. I’m beaten. You’re just too good for me. I will trouble you no more.” And then he would chuckle.
He would cease to chuckle when he contemplated another man whose seeking brought him a natural easy aversion to sin, a man for whom temptation held no terrors and whose human nature did not distract him from his task. What’s a poor devil to do with such a man when even a well-targeted temptation only tempers his spirit?
The Buddhist story comes to mind of the old monk and the novice traveling together when they encountered a beautiful and shapely young woman wishing to cross a stream. The old monk took her on his back and carried her across, and the two monks went on their way. After a time, the novice asked the old monk how he can casually carry such a woman. “Her firm young breasts were pressed into your back. Your hands were on her silken legs. Her fragrant hair swept your face.” The old monk replied, “Oh, I was very aware of those things, for she was indeed desirable, and I am a man as well as a monk. But I see that while I put her down after we crossed the stream, you are still carrying her.”
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iMonk:
You mean Roland Bainton wasn’t entirely objective? 🙂
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Matt and Surfnetter,
http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr215/opinionatedcatholic/Benedict_XIIIsmoking.jpg?t=1239896429
http://www.myspace.com/smokingpopes
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Luther’s wife owned and operated a brewery.
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Marius isn’t a Christian, and he occasionally throws a pitch at the batter. But his book is first rate and is a needed balance to hagiography, which is a huge issue with Luther bios.
Just my recommendation.
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iMonk:
The Richard Marius book – Please tell me what’s great about it. I own a copy – it was given to me as a Christmas present a couple of years ago – and I started to read it and stopped because something I read early in the book ticked me off. Can’t remember what it was. I’d be interested in your assessment of the book.
As for the quote, I think some people completely miss the point. It’s not that Luther is recommending sin as therapy, rather he is saying, “Trust in Christ and stop trying to trust in your own ability to be righteous.”
I believe that there’s a whole myriad of spiritual, psychological and behavioral problems among Christians that could be vastly mitigated if people would simply accept their own imperfection and trust in the one who is perfect.
Should we seek to improve ourselves? Yes, by all means, but one way we usually need to improve is in the way of humility. Humility tells me that the more clearly I see myself, the more I understand that I am wrong. Eighteen years ago when I discovered I was wrong, I trusted in Christ. Shall I handle it differently now?
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Snark aside, I have no idea how to take this quote. — Patrick Lynch
I take it as “Don’t get too uptight. Don’t bean-count your Brownie Points with God. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy life. Here, have a beer.”
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I like it when Luther says stuff that makes God’s people squirm. My slightly twisted sense of humor is very tickled by it.
Not to mention that it’s also totally true!
Y’all hear the interview on Steve Brown, Etc. last Friday with Cathleen Falsani on her book “Sin Boldly”? Great stuff. And she got the title from another Luther quote.
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For those of us maybe not as enthusiastic about Martin 😉
St. Teresa of Avila, and the various versions of what I have heard attributed to her as “When partridges are in season, eat partridges”:
(a) it was during Lent, and either she or another nun were fasting and unwell at the time, when they got a gift of partridges and she had them roasted for dinner, saying “When patridges are in season, eat partridges”
(b) she was visiting a monastery and for dinner there was a special meal of roast partridge, which she tore into with such abandon that the abbot rebuked her, to which she replied “When it’s prayer time, pray! When it’s partridge time, partridge!”
(c)The other sisters discovered her in the kitchen, enthusiastically devouring a partridge. Responding to their shocked protestations, Teresa exclaimed: “When I fast, I fast; and when I eat partridge, I eat partridge!”
(d) When someone was shocked that she was going to eat well, she answered, “There’s a time for partridge and a time for penance.”
Other quotes:
“May God protect me from gloomy saints.”
To her brother’s wish to meditate on hell, she answered, “Don’t.”
“If this is how you treat your friends, no wonder you have so many enemies” or “If this is how you treat your friends, Lord, no wonder you have so few!” (allegedly said as she was bucked off her horse into a river on the way to visit one of her monasteries).
And of course, the famous episode when she decided in childhood that the quickest way to get to Heaven was to be martyred by the Moors:
“Autobiograpy of St. Teresa of Jesus, Ch. I “Childhood and early Impressions:
One of my brothers was nearly of my own age; and he it was whom I most loved, though I was very fond of them all, and they of me. He and I used to read Lives of Saints together. When I read of martyrdom undergone by the Saints for the love of God, it struck me that the vision of God was very cheaply purchased; and I had a great desire to die a martyr’s death, — not out of any love of Him of which I was conscious, but that I might most quickly attain to the fruition of those great joys of which I read that they were reserved in Heaven; and I used to discuss with my brother how we could become martyrs. We settled to go together to the country of the Moors, begging our way for the love of God, that we might be there beheaded; and our Lord, I believe, had given us courage enough, even at so tender an age, if we could have found the means to proceed; but our greatest difficulty seemed to be our father and mother.”
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I am in the midst of Holy Week services (two a day plus preparation). But, sometime in the future I would like to comment more on this quote from the venerable Luther. I both agree and disagree with it. And, I fear that if I dash off a quick reply that I will miss some balances.
I will think about it after Pascha, maybe over a rum and coke, but no cigar. And, uhm, I do suspect that Pope Benedict XVI probably does enjoy a good German lager, but I doubt a cigar.
Matt did ask some good questions and make some good comments and they go to the heart of my agreement/disagreement with Luther.
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Surfnetter,
Fwiw, the Pope smokes Marlboro Reds. For absolute serious.
Matt
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A local church near our home town has the following on their sign out front:
“Did you make God smile today?”
So sad….
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I love Luther like a fat kid loves cake.
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My goodness!
I didn’t know I was Luthern.
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I’m still pondering this. This is a serious question. I’m not trying to pick an argument.
What about putting off the old man and putting on the new man? What about resisting the devil and he will flee? These sound like trying/actions.
My post-Baptist friend would ask – what about “be holy as I am holy.”? She’s a proponent of “fake it until you make it”.
We both are somewhat perplexed by this. I’m….I…. I’m a poor miserable sinner and I trust in Christ alone for my justification. I’m a beggar. But, as a thankful beggar, I wish to not sit idle and think “I’ll be plagued by x sin until God sees fit to remove it from me” if it’s something I think I can get mostly under control. I’ll never be sin-free in this life. I don’t aspire to be. I think cooperating towards the the little victories is a good thing. no? There’s no merit in it. I just don’t want to, as a new creation, act like a dead bump on a log.
I think this is worthy of another post from you on the topic. Thanks.
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To give cred to the LCMS brothas, perhaps Thesis VIII from Dr. C.F.W. Walther’s The Proper Distinction Between Law and Gospel is appropriate here:
“In the fourth place, the Word of God is not rightly divided when the Law is preached to those who are already in terror an account of their sins or the Gospel to those who live securely in their sins.”
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Thanks for the Ecclesiates passage, Steve Scott. Reading through all of chapter 7, I really also like Ecclesiastes 7:21-22, which says, “Do not take to heart all the things that people say, lest you hear your servant cursing you. Your heart knows that many times you yourself have cursed others.” That’s good advice. And it’s a very good thing that we don’t hear all that people say about us.
I do have a bone to pick with the writer of Ecclesiates though. He does not seem to find women very worthy, as you can read further along in chapter 7. I have found that quite often in the “Old Testament.” Thank God that Jesus showed us how he loved women!
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Brother Martin must have been of the same spirit as the Orthodox priest who, when his overly-scrupulous Evangelical catechumen asked him about Lenten fasting rules, plopped a six pack of a local brew down in front of him and told him to come back when he had finished.
The convert related that action saved his soul.
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I like Marty too!!
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Michael, I absolutely love this post. This is what King Solomon meant when he wrote “Do not be excessively righteous, and to not be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?” Ecclesiastes 7:16
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Yes, yes!
Enough navel-gazing self-micromanaging angst – this is the time to jump in and get totally immersed in what God wants to do in your life and that of the group you may belong to. Time may be running out and the move of God may just pass us by while we nit-pick.
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I know Luther gets a lot of heat for this sort of peccata fortier quotes, but as a teacher, I think there is a lot of wisdom in them–at least for some.
It is not at all uncommon for a good student to come up to me, pointing at the relevant information, and asking if it means the answer would be X (which it does)–but yet hesitating because they’re not at all sure, and don’t want to put something wrong. And often they talk themselves out of putting the correct answer, because, well, maybe they’re wrong.
I think our modern answer is “be more confident in yourself.” But as Chesterton shows, this is the wisdom of the insane asylum. Do not be confident in yourself, hope and trust in Christ. “Sin more boldly, but hope and trust in Christ more boldly still.” is precisely the advice (and lesson) the student needs to learn. They are too afraid to die, and trust not enough in the God who raises the dead.
Of course there are other students–far too self-confident–I’d never tell to sin more boldly. They sin far to boldly already, with no trust or hope in Christ. They need to be told that they will die, and there is nothing they can do about it. And, without the God who has risen again, death is final. Sin less boldly, but more boldly than you sin now, hope and trust in Christ.
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Wow — what a party animal, that Luther.
Never thought about tossing down a few with the Pope. I wonder if Benedict XVI ever kicks back after Mass with a Becks and a big old stogy ….
(gonna Photoshop a jpeg and see how it all comes down) 🙂
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Well, if the quote refers to breaking “manmade” regulations like “Don’t drink at all,” then sure. Sound advice.
I’ve heard from a few priests I respect that it’s better to not dwell on temptation and distract oneself than to try to fight it too hard since obsessing about sin only gives the enemy the upper hand. If that’s what Luther meant, I’m right there with him.
But if he was referring to real sins and the necessity to fight them with a passionate zeal that realizes the danger sin poses to our souls, I have to wonder why the Scriptures are always on about that very thing?
Why the buffeting of our bodies? Why the cutting off of the offending member? Why the working out of salvation with fear and trembling? Why the fear that any of us believers might have in us an evil and unbelieving heart?
If sin is lurking at the door and it’s desire is for us, if the devil is prowling about like a lion seeking whom he may devour, if we will be held accountable for every single idle word, it seems a dose of the sober-mindedness to which St. Paul calls us might be in order.
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Well, I’m Catholic and I’m pretty sure I get that quote. I believe I’ve experienced it. Taking it upon ourselves to “fight sin” too hard can possibly work a very ironic opposite inside us.
Hmm – be ignorant and drink some beer, joke, laugh – I’m thinking maybe some ‘o that is ‘gonna be happnin Sunday night somewhere. 🙂
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I also kinda like Dallas Willard’s analogy. He says you can’t get to New York by not going to Boston. In other words, sometimes focusing on all were not supposed to do gets our eyes off of prize so to speak.
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Yes Yes Yes! That’s what I’m talkin’ about.
This quote gives you a taste of the Lutheran ethos.
Dr. Rosenbladt calls Luther’s theology the ‘happiest’ theology, because it banks on God’s forgiveness and offers real hope to those who are broken by their sin. It also points you to Christ and His work outside of you, doing away with the unfortunate habit of ‘taking your own spiritual temperature’ every five minutes.
It has saved my life to be able to hang out with Christian brothers after a week of being beaten down by the world, my flesh, and the devil. My friends hand me a stiff drink and a cigar, let me vent, and then we laugh, joke and talk foolishness for awhile.
Thank God for a theology that doesn’t break the bruised reeds and snuff out the smoldering wicks.
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Another great Luther quote a friend sent me:
“Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer! (there is no beer in heaven, so let us drink it here).”
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Yes! This is wise counsel. The more we focus on sin the more power it has over us.
Good stuff!
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The way I read it — all of it — is that “Sin and Death” as an active principle is just an old Hebrew story we have been told. By the time the rest of the world heard about this — and began to believe these tales — Jesus had long ago put sin to death on the Cross, and death was swallowed up in the victory of the Resurrection. Believe that story and it’s all yours.
But the consequences of our bad acts are still there. You can run into real trouble if you don’t try to straighten those things out. Mat. 5:23-26
So, if while you’re carousing with Luther and your buddies, you make some stupid comment about someone’s wife, or his chosen belief system or some such thing — whether it is sin or not is not the question:
“First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.”
Jesus said this immediately after his expansion on the requirements of the Law explained them to be far more than anyone can ever fulfill — to even thinking about adultery, or being angry without an outward expression. But the requirements of the Law have been fulfilled in Christ, haven’t they …? Not so the law of human consequences.
God may no longer have a bone to pick with you, but your brother might — and it counts ….
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Luther=deeply flawed
Luther=deeply saved
Luther=me
Thank you Michael for a very needful reminder.
My favorite verse is Isaiah 26:12 where we hear God saying to us that He will ordain peace for us, since He has done for us all our works. He’s done it. Not me, not you, not anyone born of Adam. He’s done it…alone. That is my only comfort past, present and future. Thank God!
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i read the screwtape letters a few years back. and as far as i can remember the devi is portrayed as organized, very purposeful (i actually want to say “purpose-driven”) and wants the christian to accept his best life is the now, stay put and be stagnant. this luther quote is really radical and i believe, emphasizes an essence of the Gospel which is all about God’s grace.
steve in toronto, i like what you said about the oriental rug. thank you.
have a blessed day everyone! let’s celebrate all we have in Christ!
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“drink more, or joke and talk nonsense”
I’ll drink to that!
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Catholics:
If you feel the need to say something nasty about Luther, that’s great. There’s plenty to work with, but it has nothing to do with this discussion. This is not your post to go after Luther.
peace
ms
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Denise,
The CAPS request was for you.
The nasty comments that will not be posted obviously was for someone else who was not posted.
peace
ms
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I have always been intrigued by James 4:7 where it talks about resisting the devil. I use biblegateway.com to compare translations of the Bible and I get a kick out of sometimes seeing what Eugene Peterson does in his “Message” Bible. The NIV translation says in James 4:7-10,”Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.”
Look what “The Message” does with this passage: “So let God work his will in you. Yell a loud no to the Devil and watch him scamper. Say a quiet yes to God and he’ll be there in no time. Quit dabbling in sin. Purify your inner life. Quit playing the field. Hit bottom, and cry your eyes out. The fun and games are over. Get serious, really serious. Get down on your knees before the Master; it’s the only way you’ll get on your feet.” Peterson gets very creative, I would say! I particularly liked, “Get down on your knees before the Master; it’s the only way you’ll get on your feet.”
Here’s a little bit on Peterson for anyone who does not know him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_H._Peterson
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I think this is probably one of the most helpful posts I’ve ever read from you IMonk.
Thanks.
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Maybe I’m really a Lutheran…
Has anyone heard of the book Drinking With Calvin and Luther by Jim West?
http://tiny.cc/AzA9S
I’ve been wanting to read it since I learned of its existence several months ago. This post inspired me to finally order it.
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[mod edit]
Snark aside, I have no idea how to take this quote. I like the idea that maybe some vices serve a purpose, but then again, I don’t trust the notion that you can be a better Christian by deliberately not trying to be a better Christian. I don’t feel any liberating sense of self-forgiveness or Devil-getback when I try not to mind God and drink a lot or lust after women or generally act a ass – but then again, maybe there’s a Zen to believing in this kind of God and I’m just doing it wrong.
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iMonk,
I do not understand what you mean with your response to me in regard to not wasting my time on comments that are going to be moderated and not published? Please explain.
Thanks, Denise
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Paul said simply, “Everything that does not come from faith is sin.” he also said the “commandment is summed up in this one rule, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself,’ agreeing with Jesus, of course. It would seem then that if we are seeking God in faith, even if in a bumbling way, and loving our neighbor as best we know how, rules fly out the window. Perhaps Luther meant by sin rule breaking; to that I say Hallelujah! (spelling?) in good Pentecostal fashion, even if more than a few of my brethern might disagree, but there is a strony Calvinistic bent in some of us; and more than a few would be ahppy to have a drink with Luher. So Yes! Let’s break a few rules set up by stodgy, hidebound, holier than thou religionists. I can’t help but think this is what Luther had in mind.
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Please don’t type in caps.
And please don’t waste your time sending comments that are just going to be moderated and not published.
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Well,,wow,,where to begin. First,since mankind never had a struggle with conscience before the fall,,I believe this is one area Christ restored to us believers. We ARE the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. We ARE fully justified ,if by faith we recieve that, so weather we live in that or not is up to us.The word says that you will KNOW the truth and the truth will set you free. Notice,,,it is NOT the truth that sets you free,,,it is the TRUTH THAT YOU KNOW, that sets you free!! I love most of what is being said here but I do not think we need to just delibertly sin to take the sting out of the devils condemning thoughts,,,all we need do is believe God’s word and tell the enemy he is a liar!! WE ARE RIGHTEOUS, WE ARE HOLY, WE ARE JUSTIFIED!! When our loving Papa God see’s us,this is how He see’s us!!The church is so “sin conscious”. That is why we have grown up believing so wrongly. Even the bible has been so misinterperted because it has been filtered through the conciousness of sin. Maybe I too sound radical but let me speak truth,,,IT IS NO LONGER ABOUT SIN!!! Besides,sin is not just what you do or dont do. The word tells us that “by nature we were all children of wrath…” Because of grace we do have the freedom to be less than perfect,,this writer is correct to say that our depravity CANNOT be erased by our oun efforts,,,it dosent have to be,,,,WHY,,,,IT IS FINISHED!!! It is all grace through faith. Believe Father when He say’s. there is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus!!! Now this IS good news, isn’t it!!!! I like what the writer said about embracing justification by faith and living that,,not just using it as doctrine.
Father loves us, we really are His son’s and daughters,,,it was Father’s good pleasure to bruise His first born,,that is how much He loves us. He knew we could never be all He intended us to be unless Jesus,sinless God son,,came in the flesh to restore kingdom life. We need to stop “doing” and just be,,,and just believe. The devil has the church dooped into saying grace grace while still trying to follow the law,,if even only in some ways. The two do not mix,,,it is not now ,,nor will it ever be both. It is grace by faith,,,,WHEN WILL WE JUST BELIEVE GOD!!!
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I find I have grown so much in my relationship with God once I stopped trying to please him by keeping small inconsequential acts out of my life. Only when I accepted that God loves me unconditionaly did I fully grasp the gospel, even though it had grasped me years before.
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Moonshadow I agree wholeheartedly 😛
Honestly, though, this bothers the snot out of me.
But not because I disagree.
It is just so hard for me to truly understand and accept it. God loves me even if I sin…
Then why have I been trying too hard?
I gotta print this and stick it in my Bible so I’m reminded daily that it’s not about my works to achieve righteousness… It’s what He is doing in me.
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JohnO, I hear you. I wish I could be hit with the realization that God loves me. I know it in my brain, but not my heart.
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“Sin and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still”
Martin Luther 1521
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There must be something wrong with me because this doesn’t bother me at all. 🙂
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From Surfnetter:
How about when God tells you to “sin”…?
Acts 12:10-14 (Eating unclean animals)
Mat. 16:16 (It was a sin to call a man God)
Does Luther have anything to say about that …?
It seems that in every case, when a faith hero acted on the Voice he or she heard, it was to commit “sin” according to their understanding and/or that of their neighbors and families.
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Mike:
Sorry I don’t know. Table talk is a likely source.
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I love Luther’s radical grace. Don’t we realize that when we try not to sin, sin is still present? I find that as I let go of my perfectionistic tendencies and allow myself to “sin a little”, I allow God the room to work in my life. I grow spiritually by letting go of my self-righteousness.
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I don’t know the context or the meaning in the original language, and I hate speculating, but… (That means feel free to correct me if I’m completely off.)
Perhaps he’s talking about “sinning” in the gray areas of Christian freedom Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians. The various general rules regarding behavior (don’t cause a brother to stumble, hold ourselves to a higher standard than the world) can lead to rules not necessarily explicit in the Bible (no alcohol). I don’t necessarily consider it legalistic to adhere strictly to explicit commandments (it would depend on how and why the commandments are followed), but strict adherence to these types of rules is pretty legalistic.
I think what Luther was talking about was preventing a kind of unhappy pride from forming, and destroying the assumption that just because a person abstains from more “worldly” pleasures, they must be a better person.
Also, in committing these types of “sins,” the person is putting more faith in God. Knowing full well He does not condemn an action, reveling in it is to be encouraged. We should not sin abundantly so that grace may be even more abundant. But I think the type of sin Luther is referring to is not the type that separates us from Christ, but rather the type separates us from prideful legalism.
Again, speculation… Feel free to slap me around
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Mike
Where is this quote from? Would love to read more around it!
another Mike
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There are no Lutheran churches within two hours. Why don’t you Lutherans do some church planting and help a fellow out?
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Colin:
Galatians
Babylonian Captivity
Table Talk
Sermons
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and you’re still not a lutheran…
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Love it.
If you had thrown this at me a few months ago I would have baulked at it and sought to wriggle away from what it was saying. But I was wrestling with some university coursework one day (I can’t even remember what it was now – it might even have been sermon preparation) and it suddenly struck me that God loves me. That sounds terribly trite, but the real impact of it hit me at the time and suddenly there was happiness in the Christian life and the real joy of really knowing that I didn’t need to try and earn anything. I really can’t describe what it’s like but I absolutely ‘get’ Luther when he says this, because it reflects what I ‘know’. I think it’s something you simply ‘get’ or continue to struggle with. Maybe that’s the ‘existential’ bit of your post. It’s something that simply ‘is’. It can’t be learnt or rationalised.
Sorry, I’m just burbling now, but, as always, so much of what you write just strikes a chord with me.
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I can second the recommendation for Dr. Oberman Luther Biography. Oberman is particularly strong on Luther’s debt to Augustinian Monasticism. It’s too easy to see the Luther and the other reformers threw the lens of the enlightenment. Oberman works hard to help us see him as a man very rooted in the late middle ages.
God Bless
Steve in Toronto
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Martin Marty wrote a nice biography as well, but I haven’t read the others to compare. (http://www.amazon.com/Martin-Luther-Penguin-Life-Lives/dp/0670032727/ref=ed_oe_h)
iMonk, do you have any favorite writings by Luther? I haven’t read “On The Bondage of the Will” yet, but plan to soon enough. Any others?
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Wow! This is pretty mind-blowing.
If I were to put Luther’s quote a different way, I might say: “When tempted by a legalistic mindset, intentionally do something to show that that aspect of legalism has no hold on you, and to show that you are guided by Christ and not by a set of rules and regulations.”
Do I understand him correctly?
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Michael (or anyone else that reads this), can you recommend a good biography of Luther, one that brings out the aspect of his theology evidenced by this quote?
Thanks. Chris.
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As a UM, I believe that I would much rather hang with Brother Martin than “Father” John Wesley. Luther seemed to me to be truly pious rather than “piass,” as many of the so-called righteous tend to be.
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Wowzas! That made MY jaw drop… and I’m Lutheran. (a new one, however)
I get it, but clearly not well enough.
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I am told that when creating an oriental rug the waver deliberately makes one mistake because in the Islam it is considered a blasphemy to even aspire to perfection since perfection belongs only to God. It’s a concept that I think that we Christians can learn from as well. I have always felt that a few conspicuous vices are essential to a healthy Christian Witness (It important not to intimidate the potential convert). I will how ever concede that I may have taken this concept a little too far.
God Bless
Steve in Toronto
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