2 Cor. 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. 16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.* The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling* the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
The Bible says the love of Christ controls us, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh.
When I was an older child- 11 or 12- I was caught up and fascinated with the character of Daniel Boone. The television series starring Fess Parker had become a hit, and for Kentucky kids like me, this was the greatest thing since the invention of baseball.
My friend Jeff and I entered into one of the great projects of my childhood: making Daniel Boone into a lifestyle.
We adopted roles which soon overtook our regular personalities. I was never allowed to be Daniel, being exiled to the supporting parts of the sidekick Yadkin or a friendly Indian. We bought clothes, guns, powder horns, coonskin caps, moccasins, boots and more paraphernalia. (I still have this stuff.) We memorized the Daniel Boone show scripts, but also studied Boone in real life.
One of the highlights of those years was a Daniel Boone pilgrimage we made to Frankfort, Kentucky and the site of Boonesboro, the fort Boone built in the bluegrass area of Kentucky. (The fort was actually gone and no replica existed, which was a major disappointment. That has since been remedied.)
Every day, after school, my friend and I lived out the fantasy of being Daniel Boone, often running around the neighborhood with our toy flintlocks and coonskin caps, in full dress costumes. We must have been quite a sight.
One thing was missing, however: bad guys. There weren’t enough of us be the bad guys in rotation (and my friend wouldn’t surrender the Daniel Boone role anyway,) and it wasn’t much fun to pretend without some warm bodies. We really needed bad guys; bad guys would make us good guys. Our adventures simply weren’t complete without enemies.
Fortunately, there were other kids in the neighborhood who had no interest in the Daniel Boone fantasy world. Some we knew well; others were practically strangers to us. So we made a decision. A family of neighborhood kids would be the bad guys. Two brothers and a sister, often seen around the neighborhood. They were the “Hagans,†the enemy of all things Daniel Boone.
The Hagan kids, by the way, were poorer and tougher than both my friend and I, and much larger. Even the girl towered over us. If they had ever decided they were tired of having toy rifles and plastic tomahawks pointed at them, we would have been in trouble.
The Hagans put up with our sudden interest in them without major incident. For our part, we stayed busy making up various tales of how the Hagans were up to no good, in league with our enemies, out to steal our women and goods, and so on.
My friend Jeff and I had many good times with the Hagans in our sights. Pretending you are the good guys is much easier when you can easily point at the bad guys. Fortunately, the Hagans probably never had any real idea what we imagined them doing, how often we’d killed them or thrown them all into prison.
The Hagan’s were, of course, imaginary bad guys. For Christians trying to find their way out of a culture war obsessed evangelicalism to something more Jesus shaped, the enemies aren’t the kids across the alley and their imaginary crimes.
It’s militant angry gays and lesbians.
It’s radical atheists.
It’s Democrats, liberals and supporters of the president.
It’s progressives and their social agenda.
It’s Muslims.
It’s the main stream media and their hatred of Christianity.
It’s the hostile minions of Christian harassment and persecution.
It’s the guy you are arguing with in a blog.
It’s a Christian (so-called) who doesn’t agree with your politics or theology.
Paul says a lot of very simple things in the scripture above.
One of them is this: If the love of Christ controls us, we don’t look at people as we did before. We look at them in the light of the Gospel. As persons who are invited to be reconciled to God by what God has done for them.
That is the way we view people in the world: in the light of the Gospel. Not in light of their politics, their sexual partners, their vote, their religion or their attitude toward Christianity.
What are the variables at work here?
Is Christ Lord? Is he King?
Do we understand the love he has for human beings?
Do we believe Christ died for all?
Does this love control us?
Does this love change the way we view those we formerly viewed in a “worldly†sense? (Those who are defined by who they are in the world.)
Does this lead us to relate to, speak to and plead with these persons as ambassadors of Christ?
Do we present to them the reconciled relationship with God that Jesus Christ has made possible?
Or do we continue playing our games, making these people of the world the enemies of OUR culture and OUR beliefs rather than having our view of who they are transformed by the Gospel?
We prefer for the Gospel to change the other fellow, but Paul makes it clear that the Gospel changes us. We do not see people as we did before.
Every day I listen to and read Christians whose consideration of other persons is on the basis of politics and cultural conflict. Not the Gospel. Their anger and frustration dominates, not the Gospel.
The Gospel needs to transform me and millions of other Christians who relate to people through the cross and through Jesus only after we have exhausted all our other responses.
Is it any wonder that our evangelism is almost non-existent, when our view of other persons remains captive to fear, anger and the emotions of the culture war.
The Internet Monk Archives 
As far as I can tell, nobody wants to put people in jail for being Christians or for attending Christian services, or being baptised as Christians. Nobody wants to deny Christians access to the legal rights of marriage. Nobody wants to deny Christians the right to visitation of their families in hospitals. Nobody wants to do ANY of the things that many many many Christians want to do to gay people. And yet, the Christians are the victims of the culture wars?
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Those evil gays attacking people in the culture wars. Nobody Christian ever did what they did by boycotting businesses!
And as for Miss California, she lost a beauty pagaent. She lost NONE of her rights.
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Brian R:
You have given me more than a few things to think about yourself. Your concerns over how many christians engage the culture wars is fully justified.
“…no education beyond high school…”
Wow, you could have fooled me!
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Alfred, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and you have provided a lot of good stuff to consider.
To be honest, for someone like me with no education beyond high school, it can be really daunting to try and tackle these issues and get to the core of them.
I appreciate your response and am glad to have the opportunity to dig deeper into the issue.
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Brian R
Thank you for the reasonable and intelligent response. You asked several questions…here are my responses:
Question 1:
“I would be interested to know what elements of the left you feel have the connections, the popular support, the tax exempt status, and media channels to bring about a radical overthrow of our constitutional form of government.”
Wow, you really give me a softball with that one, thanks :). Let’s start with the entire public education system, especially our system of higher education (private and public). The Humanities Departments of our universities routinely call for a complete repudication of our constitutional democracy (i.e. Women Studies, African American Studies, Latino Studies, Queer Studies, Peace Studies, etc.). Law schools invest new theories of jurisprudence which are completely counter to Western legal tradition. Schools of journalism promote the idea of activist journallism where the media is used as a vehicle for radical social change.
The ideas which geminate in our system of higher education have swamped our judicial system , lower education system and most media outlets. They have also all but taken over such philanthropic organizations as the Ford Foundation and the McCarther Foundation (non-profits), just to name two.
I could go on and on and on. And I could provide ample evidence for each of my claims.
Question 2:
“Again, I would ask which groups you feel represent this threat from the left that engage in violent methods to secure their goals.”
Use of violence from the left: hmmm, lets see, here’s a small list:
Past performances:
– Stalin Marxists
– Mao Marists
– Castro Marxists
– Weather Undergound
– Black Panthers
– Symbionese Liberation Army
– Hitler (yes Hitler)
Current Threats:
– Abortists of all kinds (if you believe a fetus is a human)
– Animal Liberation Front
– Earth Liberation Front
– A host of extremist groups which riot during G7 meeting, World Trade Conferences, Republican & Demoratic National conventions,
– Liberals who advocate violence are to many to list (ie. Che t-shirts, Mao t-shirts, etc.)
– Trade unions
Violence, ever since the French Revolution, has been a commonly used and a widely accepted tactic of the Left. Violence amoung Christians is a very rare and exceptional thing. And the number of Chistians who advocate violence is extremely small.
Question 3:
“Where is hate from the Christian right being generated from if it is not from the culture war?”
People (whether christians, buddhists, muslims, atheists, hindus, etc.) have known hate since the beginning of time. We figured out reasons to hate other long before the culture wars. And when the cuture wars are over people will go on hating. Christians figured out how to hate during the Crusades and in the the American South they figured out how to hate their slaves.
I maintain the aggressors in the culture wars are Lest radicals who are intent on changing the world. Many Christians are undoubtedly threatened by this and some react inappropriately.
I encourage you to read the following excellent essay on the culture wars:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3484376.html
This will give you some insight into where I am coming from.
Thank you again sir for the wonderful dialog.
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Alfred, thanks for your reply. I am really trying to understand where you are coming from and would like to ask a few questions about your reply.
Alfred
“For every misguided christian like Gary North there are 10 people on the Left who are more extreme.”
Me
Why would you say North is misguided?
Have you ever heard of the Coalition on Revival? North is a member along with a long list of influential and determined pastors and evangelical leaders. (list- http://65.175.91.69/Reformation_net/Pages/Signed_Manifesto_1986.htm)
Here is an overview of the the 24 year plan to remake America in the image of a “Christian” nation.
Click to access 24yearplanbrochure6page.pdf
I would be interested to know what elements of the left you feel have the connections, the popular support, the tax exempt status, and media channels to bring about a radical overthrow of our constitutional form of government.
Don’t get me wrong here. I am against efforts of the left and right to undo our constitution, but I think the right is a more present danger with potential to bring about a fascist regime than the left is to bring about a socialist one.
Alfred
“We call “christian†groups like Army of God and American Coalition of Life “extremeists†but groups like it on the left are refered to as human rights activists.”
Me
Again, I would ask which groups you feel represent this threat from the left that engage in violent methods to secure their goals.
Alfred
What you have done sir is highlight a few extreme examples of christian-right activist groups. But what is amazing is just how uncommon these folks are.
Me
I would be happy to examine the groups on the left that you feel are equivalent to my examples. How many common extreme left groups are operating in America that you feel outnumber those on the right?
Alfred
“Yes, hate exists within the Christian community and this needs to end. However, I stand by my comment: the source of that hate is not the Culture War – at least not from the Right.”
Where is hate from the Christian right being generated from if it is not from the culture war?
From my perspective, a large amount of Christian hate has sprung from an unspoken premise that America is a Christian nation and anyone who denies this is an unpatriotic, American hating liberal who needs to be dealt with harshly.
For examples refer to several prominent Christian leaders such as the late Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Dr. Dobson, and Pat Robertson for just a sampling.
Add to this the right wing political figures like Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reiley, Coulter, and others who many evangelicals listen to regularly and you have an impressive media hate machine that demonizes anyone who questions the premise that Christain=Conservative=America.
Alfred
You make several other comments:
“I find it telling that Christians need to classify themselves as being on the “rightâ€. The merger of Christians and the GOP and it’s subsequent failure ought to give believers pause and rethink their association with worldly political organizations.â€
I completely agree. However, I will say this, the extreme Left is waging a war against Christianity and I do believe it is wrong for christians not to resist those attacks. Incidently, I don’t vote – ever – so you make assumptions of me based on your own biases.”
I am sorry you mistook my general comments as describing your political views in particular.
I don’t deny that there are people who attack Christians, but I can say it has become common for some Christians to scream “persecution” when anyone argues against them.
Your opinion on the appropriate Christian response to attacks is one of several. Quakers and other “peace churches” might disagree with you. With sayings like “Do not resist evil” in the NT and other sentiments like it, a case can be made for non resistance as an appropriate reaction to attacks.
Alred
“I am quite sure I have no idea what a “Christianized†culture even looks likes. However, I do know what a culture looks like which makes it all but impossible for people to receive the Gospel. The culture war, to me, is about preventing the culture from becomimg completely infertile – spritually. When the very concept of right and wrong is expunged from the culture, grace becomes obsolete.
Incidently not every Christian culture warrior is looking for a return to prayer in schools or is looking to end the teaching of evolution. I want neither.”
I would count you among those I am not concerned about trying to undo our form of government then, but I am interested in seeing your examples I asked for above about the left.
Thanks.
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One thing that seems to be missing from this discussion (which is quite good overall) is the fact that the message is the gospel is an inherently ‘cultural’ message. Ever hear of Augustine’s ‘City of God’? It’s clear that in the NT, Paul and others went into existing cultures and proclaimed a message which ,in large part, said that God had established a new culture to rival the existing cultures. ‘Cultural’ conflict was (and is) inevitable. It is inherent in the message of the gospel.
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Brian R
For every misguided christian like Gary North there are 10 people on the Left who are more extreme.
We call “christian” groups like Army of God and American Coalition of Life “extremeists” but groups like it on the left are refered to as human rights activists.
What you have done sir is highlight a few extreme examples of christian-right activist groups. But what is amazing is just how uncommon these folks are.
Yes, hate exists within the Christian community and this needs to end. However, I stand by my comment: the source of that hate is not the Culture War – at least not from the Right.
You make several other comments:
“I find it telling that Christians need to classify themselves as being on the “rightâ€. The merger of Christians and the GOP and it’s subsequent failure ought to give believers pause and rethink their association with worldly political organizations.”
I completely agree. However, I will say this, the extreme Left is waging a war against Christianity and I do believe it is wrong for christians not to resist those attacks. Incidently, I don’t vote – ever – so you make assumptions of me based on your own biases.
“Believe it or not, not all Christians think it is their duty to “Christianize†the culture.”
I am quite sure I have no idea what a “Christianized” culture even looks likes. However, I do know what a culture looks like which makes it all but impossible for people to receive the Gospel. The culture war, to me, is about preventing the culture from becomimg completely infertile – spritually. When the very concept of right and wrong is expunged from the culture, grace becomes obsolete.
Incidently not every Christian culture warrior is looking for a return to prayer in schools or is looking to end the teaching of evolution. I want neither.
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Alfred said,
“But what gulls me is the presumption that: 1) Christians are the aggressors in the Culture Wars;”
How do you define the “Culture War” that non Christians have been the “aggressors” in? Are we talking about the removal of the Bible as a school text book or is it Roe v Wade or the separation of church and state?
and
“2) those who align themselves on the Right of the Culture Wars teach fear and hate. Both of those charges are false. Our sinful nature tells us to hate not the Culture War. And it is the Left who is the aggressors in the Culture War not the christian Right.”
Ever hear of people like Gary North and his father-in-law Rushdoony? Check out their writings and tell me they are not aggressors for the “right”.
Would you consider anti abortionist groups like Army of God and American Coalition of Life Activists to be elements of the left?
Is Fred Phelps a phenomena of the left?
I find it telling that Christians need to classify themselves as being on the “right”. The merger of Christians and the GOP and it’s subsequent failure ought to give believers pause and rethink their association with worldly political organizations.
Believe it or not, not all Christians think it is their duty to “Christianize” the culture.
If you can’t see why people think believers are aggressors in the culture war, you need to educate yourself with some information that does not come from distilled from the right.
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Not to be picky sir but the title of this essay is so totally wrong: “Does the Gospel Change…The Culture War Tells You To Fear and Dislike?”
Yes of course Christians need to love everyone, even their enemies. And yes of course the Gospel tells us that we need to be compassionate toward the disenfranchised. This is the stuff you learn in Sunday school.
But what gulls me is the presumption that: 1) Christians are the aggressors in the Culture Wars; and 2) those who align themselves on the Right of the Culture Wars teach fear and hate. Both of those charges are false. Our sinful nature tells us to hate not the Culture War. And it is the Left who is the aggressors in the Culture War not the christian Right.
A perfect example of this is the battle over gay marriage. After proposition 209 won in California, gay activists took revenge on small business owner who dared to give money to the winning side. Several people who supported 209 lost their jobs. Most recently Carrie Prejean (Miss California) was targeted for humiliation. The targeting of Carrie Prejean is an example of how vicious and conniving the Culture Warriors on the Left have become. Miss California was purposefully singled out to be asked the “Gay marriage†question because of proposition 209. She lost the contest because of her “hateful†answer. Since then she has been harassed and will possibly be stripped of her Miss California title. The issue here is not about Miss America – who cares about that silly contest? The issue here is the calculated use of intimidation. After all who will be silly enough to step forward with an anti-gay marriage stand after that display.
That homosexuals believe that Christians hate them is to some extent the fault of homosexuals. If today Jesus were to tell a homosexual that he is not condemned but that he is to sin no more (as he did the harlot who was to be stoned) I am sure the gay community’s reaction would be open indignation over Jesus’ obvious lack of tolerance.
Mr. Spencer, it would be good of you sir if you would do a little research on the origins of the Culture War. You may want to start with a little research on a man named Antonio Gramsci. You may then want to move on to learn about the Frankfurt School, critical theory, repressive tolerance, authoritarian personality, deconstruction, post-structuralism, and the rest of the post-modern bag of tricks. There are no easy answers to this new challenge to Christianity. If it was just about Christian morality then what we are facing would be of little concern – but what is happening is far deeper than that.
I agree, hate is not the answer – quite the opposite. But neither is leaving it to the sworn enemies of Christianity to define the terms of the debate.
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i just love your blog – and i agree with you – it is hard to hate anyone when they’re your brothers and sisters – i know it’s so easy to forgive my own sisters 🙂 or my own children 🙂 – and isn’t it CRAZY that the Bible says i’m to relate to women as older sisters or mothers, and to men as younger brothers or fathers? Isn’t it crazy to think that we are all one blood? i hate pornography in my face on the billboard, but i know i did something right when my 12 year old son says “i bet her mom’s embarassed”…and looks away. Let’s think in terms of relationship, every time…
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@Ted – Your post sums things up very nicely. Well put.
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It is hardly axiomatic that if you are concerned with any or all the issues that comprise the so-called “culture war” that you are therefore obliged to “hate” people.
I’m just sayin’.
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I have only recently discovered your website and have enjoyed reading and have been challenged bby what has presented. In my opinion this pretty summarizes what you are saying in most of your posts. Our love of all people is based upon their value as creatures created in the image of God. While we may disagree with everything they represent we must love them because we are compelled to do so by the love God has shown us.
Part of the reason for the reformed in the crowd to do this is to be consistent with our views that we are without merit and it is truly by His grace we believe. There is no room for pride, only acknowledgment that a merciful sovereign God has chosen to work and redeem His creation and some of its people.
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I often thought the story of the Good Samaritan could be told from the viewpoint of a homosexual and an evangelical Christian – those two groups there probably have the same nasty relationship that the Samaritans and Jews had and in the same manner, most of it generated by the “Religious Authorities”
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Possible cultural changes because of immigration? Europe has the more immediate challenge with its Muslim immigrants. If we accept our christian immigrants from the south, the USA will have christian majority for some time. New allies indeed.
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Hey, imonk,
Thanks a lot for recognizing these issues (such as homosexuality) that are so often wrongly approached by Evangelicals. Please continue to stand up for those marginalized by the Church and often the world.
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Jesus became sin.
Jesus became EVERYTHING that we are.
Jesus became everything that YOU are.
There must be no quotes around that word sin.
He bodily represented the ENTIRE human race as second adam eclipsing the first.
No. one. is. excluded. from. this. fact.
So we MUST say that he who knew no sin, was a mother, a father, a son, a daughter , a black man, a gay man.
Jesus also became a child molester, a drug addict, a gossip, a liar, a thief, and whatever is the very worst thing you have ever done or continue to do in your life. He became that secret thing about you that you would die for people to know is true about you.
In exchange, he gives you, through the instrumentality of your baptism: everything he is. everything he has. You become the righteous-ness of God.
He does all this PURELY out of goodness and mercy, without any goodness or merit on our part. not even ONE DROP of merit in an ocean of His goodness.
So when you fail to see a homosexual, a black man, or a white man as Jesus, he will at the end say “you did not know meâ€.
To the extent you have given love to the unlovable, the least the last, the lost, and those not worthy or deserving of anything good, indeed those justly worthy of your righteous condemnation for who they are or what they do, Jesus says “whatsoever you have done unto them, you have done unto me!â€
THIS, and nothing short of THIS, is what christian morality and sanctification looks like.
There are other great truths in the bible and in man´s wisdom. None can qualify this truth in any way. All other truths point to and illustrate this “one thing needful”. If they point to something else, they are simply distractions and detours.
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Dumb Ox earlier mentioned G.K. Chesterton’s response to the question, “What is wrong with the world?â€. His response: “Dear sirs, I amâ€.
How many of us would agree and say “yes I am too” or how many would agree and say “yes YOU are”.
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Leslie: You are using the word “culture” in a different way than I am.
You are using it in the sense of personal manners.
I am using it in the sense of a country or groups dominant way of believing and “being” who they are. Manners are not part of that definition. Language, entertainment, art, rituals, religion, etc would be.
peace
ms
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Michael: I agree with your post. However, something has been bothering me along this line for quite a while. I want your thoughts on this. You see, I am an Indian Christian, and India is a diverse land with people that are cultured and uncultured. This applies also to believers. The Bible teaches that we are not to treat anyone as to the flesh. Now, how do we deal with uncultured believers. I contnue to have difficulties with uncultured Christians. Just because they are fellow-Christians, am I expected to put up with their uncouth behaviour, and not get irritated. What should be my Christian reponse? Thanks!
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Willoh, I second the comment by Dave138 about your comment.
I believe that the “fighting the good fight of self-mortification” is actually the essence of the Muslim practice of Jihad. I am not sure how many people understand that about Muslims.
It kind of casts a negative shadow on our “crusades”, (including the current morality ones) as being anything BUT self-reforming.
However, there are plenty of Jihadists who have a more literal interpretation of the term, who pose a serious threat to not only world peace, but their own faith as well.
But that is not our battle to fight. I must commit to “crusade” against sinful desires that battle within me until I am wholly surrendered to Christ. I think that is what should be the nature of Christian spirituality.
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Willoh, you’re last sentence, “If we would only fight ourselves, and make the good fight one of self mortification, then others would be attracted to us, not repelled by legalism and egotism,” is brilliant and refutes both culture war-ism and the idea that any sort of pietism means withdraw. If we work on the inside, it will shine outwardly and effect culture. Russian Orthodox St. Seraphim of Sarov once said, “Acquire the spirit of peace, and thousands around you will be saved.” I actually like this a tad more than the often referenced somewhat similar Assisi quote, as I think it is a little more active. Unfortunately, from what I can tell any more, much of Evangelical and Reformed theology is so focused on justification that raising the very idea of the making “the good fight one of self mortification” gets one accused of Pelagianism. The starting line becomes the finish line. Sigh…
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This is a fascinating and painful philosophy: You can’t be a good guy if you don’t have a bad guy. But what if this situation is happening on a personal level? Two members of family (who live one block away) have decided that I’m the bad guy and they’re the good guys, and they put this into action every day, reminding me how bad I am and how I don’t appreciate how good they are to me.
Is there a way to deal with this bad guy/good guy situation when faced with it on an intimate level? Please set aside the idea that any of us are paranoid. I would appreciate any ideas and advice on this.
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Bob Sacamento, the same thing happens regularly to Wiccans and other people whose religions are on the fringes of public respectability. One woman lost custody of her child because her ex brought up her membership in the Church of the SubGenius, whose antics and satirical philosophy horrified the judge.
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I was reminded of Mark 8:22-26 that relates the story of Jesus healing the blind man of Bethsaida. On the first touch the man says he sees men as trees walking about. On the second touch though he began to see everything clearly.
I remember reading a book by Keith Miller in the early 1980’s (A Second Touch I think) that discussed how we so often see so many of the people in our lives as objects and not as real people.
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Well said, Michael. You really need to write that book. It would do the kingdom a lot of good.
This post reminded of what Jesus said is the greatest commandment, and of I John 4:20, and of I Cor 13 and so many more. If we don’t love, if we don’t see people as Jesus sees them, we’re lost.
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Please, please change the picture accompanying your post to 12-year-old Michael and friend in coonskin caps.
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D. Boone carried a Pennsylvania Long
Rifle, and I still throw a hatchet at a tree and think of him.
If we would only fight ourselves, and make the good fight one of self mortification, then others would be attracted to us, not repelled by legalism and egotism. Bravo Monk-miester.
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If we are doing what the bible tells us to do:
1) Go where the sinners are.
2) Compare what people tell us we are supposed to do as believers with what is written in scripture – cf Acts regarding the nobility of the Berean believers.
and are careful to remember that as they are we once were. There is little reason to fear, and no reason to dislike.
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I’m reminded of G.K. Chesterton’s infamous response to the question, “What is wrong with the world?”. His response: “Dear sirs, I am”. The sad truth is that we have little grace for certain sinners, because deep down inside the sinner we hate the most is the one staring back at us in the mirror. We can cover up our self loathing with all sorts of masks and moral/political/religious disguises, but we know who we are. We hate ourselves, and it shows in the way we treat others – both within the church and without. They see through our misery and want nothing to do with a God (false “god”?) who makes us feel this way. Even we secretly blame God for making us so miserable, but the source is our own condition, our inability to grasp unconditional forgiveness.
In the words of a Resurrection Band song I learned as a teenager:
“A love for You is what I’m dying to receive,
Though I hate what I am I understand what You’ve promised me,
You’ve promised me freedom in the truth,
But I can only face myself when I’ve faced You.”
– from “The Struggle”, on the album, “Colours”.
Until we can face Jesus, fully accepting his forgiveness, I don’t think we’ll have much love or forgiveness for others.
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Yesterday, I chaperoned my fourth grade son on a field trip to our state capitol. We had a special surprise awaiting us in the the rotunda, our legislative assemblyman to greet us. Unfortunately, it was a total fiasco. Why may you ask? We ran into the Wisconsin National Day of Prayer group.
Well… a group of well-meaning charasmatic evangelicals B L A S T E D contemporary praise music so loud one could not think let alone learn a lick from their state rep. Women were waving their arms the balcony above us, and I’m sure they were hoping to be a “witness” to the lost souls of Madison. The kids were confused, it was flat out embarrassing. A family friend also chaperoning, who is a choir director and serves local Mormon ward leader found it a bit creepy.
At first, I thought they might be exhubarent hindus (we were in Madison) and the music was so very loud, the lyrics were indistinguishable. Then… “wait a minute, something sounds familiar, something sounded, ‘Vineyard-y’ ” .
You know, they could have been a witness. They could have respected others who were present, perhaps had a small piano, a small quintet or a solo beautiful voice or a modest choir. But NO, they had loud, obnoxious prerecorded music and didn’t give a rat’s arse about anyone but themselves and they ruined what could have, no what should have been a memorable moment for seventy ten-year old kids.
Rant ended.
ps I don’t miss this style of “contemporary worship” at all. I love Chant and singing goofy 60’s Catholic folksy music. Those who think liturgy is “dead”, so sad for you.
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I am not really sure what just happened to me. I think God just picked me up and shook me, and what came out somehow made sense. God is using you Monk, it is very…freeing, (is that a word?) Thank you for your writings you have a gift.
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Mike,
I like your comment. I realize sometimes I make comments without really reading the other comments.
Maybe, I just want myself to he heard. Therefore,
I too am waiting to really make a comment.
I do thank I-monk for this forum though.
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….for the 3rd time this week i”ve written a comment only to delete it..realizing i did”nt know what i was talking about………
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@ TK
“I’m sad christian theologians have to sit around spending time reminding christians who they shouldn’t hate.”
I actually fell out of my chair just now.
(To keep from spraying a frosty beverage on the keyboard.)
AnyHoo, it would have cut short almost half if not all of my time spent in seminary working on, (and getting), the hallowed M Div if not for plenty of time spent sitting around (in and out of class) engaged over this issue and other equally inane cultural issues.
Such good times and fond memories. (LOL / ;p)
(American+Republican+Suburban=Christian ~ uhhh ~ not so much.)
Culture changes and always has and always will ~ the Bible on the other hand ~ not.
And the Bible is actually very clear on who we should hate ~ No one. And who we should love ~ Everyone. (Even a stinkin rotten (add your own adjectives here) dying thief on a cross was worthy and made it into Heaven ~ one of them anyway.) And the Bible tells us what we should hate ~ Sin. And which Sins to hate ~ Every last stinkin little one of them.
(Even the smallest, pettiest, personal / private ones we Saints all hold so dear.)
(So don’t even think about getting snarky about loving Hitler or the devil or whatever log is in your eye.)
And for those of us who think we just can’t past our flesh and love people like Jesus ~ I say ~ wrong answer ~ we haven’t even begin to test the limits of trusting Jesus in our lives.
And for those of us so Holy to think that we’re doing so well and doing all the right things and that God needs us or our sacrifices ~ I say ~ toss your filthy rags over there in the pile with mine.
I wouldn’t trade my very best day or very best work on the planet and call it worthy.
So why do I do what I do and why do I love the way I do instead of answering the tempting siren song of the culture wars?
I have yet to forget my filth, sin and need.
And,
I have yet to forget the someone, the One, who loved me in spite of it all.
I pray for peace for those who think they need to fight God’s battles for Him instead of living the life that God has called them to live and I pray that they come to know the God who asks only one thing ~ that you love Him with everything you are.
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Imonk,
I think this might be the most important post I have EVER seen from you!
Wow!
“That is the way we view people in the world: in the light of the Gospel. Not in light of their politics, their sexual partners, their vote, their religion or their attitude toward Christianity.”
Yes! I hope blogs, Baptist Press, Ed Stetzer, and ____________________ pick this one up and post it.
This is what evangelicalism [including myself] needs to hear right now!
A prophet has spoken!
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Bob:
If you are hearing me say that Christians as individuals shouldn’t engage moral and cultural issues, then you are mishearing me. We are citizens and have a responsibility to exercise that citizenship.
But our primary citizenship is not in this culture and we are not commissioned to culture dominance, but to Kingdom expansion and Kingdom faithfulness.
I support many of the causes you do I’m sure. But our calling isn’t to win a culture war.
peace
ms
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…. and then I meet a lady at church. Not a nationally known speaker, and not a story in somebody’s latest book on the culture war, just a real flesh and blood middle class person, trying to get by and help her family do the same, and she tells me her story. A social worker started proceedings to take her child away from her. Why? Because the precocious 6 year old was reading through the Bible, and the Bible just isn’t appropriate for children that age.
“Well, this is just an exaggeration. No social worker would try to take the child away for that.”
Yes they did.
“Well, something else must have been going on then.”
No there wasn’t.
The lady got a lawyer and managed to get a court to slap a restraining order on the social worker.
“Well, see, the system worked.”
No, that’s not a working system for people who can’t afford a lawyer and for little kids who have to carry around the trauma of courts and depositions and wondering whether they are going to be taken away from their parents.
I guess you’ll have to take my word for it that this is a true story. This lady is not a “literary trope” or a figment of my imagination.
Yes, Michael, we evangelicals put too much emphasis on the culture war, in the same way that many of us have put too much emphasis on nourishing our bodies. So let’s give up the culture war, and never eat again while we’re at it. Yes, alot of us went off the deep end during the Clinton administration, and we need to get some balance back. But the issues that come under the rubric of “the culture war” (a prejudicial term in and of itself) affect real people trying to live real lives. And I want to try to love that lady who could have lost her child as much as I want to love the “radical atheists” and the others on your list. I just can’t see why that is so wrong.
I appreciate alot of what you say on this blog, Michael, but when you talk about the culture war, you lose me. Peace, just the same.
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I don’t mean to be trivial, but thank you Joanie
for the lyrics to Daniel Boone. I have been singing the words wrong, ever since I was 10 years old. That is so funny to me.
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I think back to my high school days, and see how I was so concerned about “maintaining my Christian witness” by being separate that I failed to engage and befriend the very people whom Christ’s love wanted to reach.
God forgive me for missing those opportunities to be Jesus to my classmates. Help me do better today with my coworkers.
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Other relevant scripture regarding the culture war: Galatians 1:6-9:
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
We conservatives worry that the liberals chase after another gospel in the “social gospel” yet our own Other Gospel has become the “culture war”.
Here in Maine another battle in the culture war ended (or began?) this week, as Maine joined several other states in legalizing same-sex marriage. I’m not sure yet what to think.
Throughout the battle I have been far more concerned with how my fellow Christians would behave in this matter than with the outcome of the legislation. Because the fight was short (only a few months from the introduction of the bill to its passing) perhaps it caught us all by surprise, for the battle was reasonably civil.
I am sure it will be revisited in a referendum, though, so please join with me in prayer–not so much about the outcome, but as to how Christians will behave–because this WILL be coming to your state too, as I read the first amendment.
And whether or not the matter is crucial (still trying to figure how my marriage certificate has been depreciated), it is certainly not crucial to the gospel. The first Christians lived in the Roman Empire with all of its gods and idolatry–though scripture condemns the practice vehemently–and we modern Christians comfortably accept other religions–even idolatry–around us today under the first amendment. But, although we accept state-sanctioned idolatry we balk at state-sanctioned homosexuality, a sin not mentioned nearly as often in the bible.
Not to say that we shouldn’t get involved in shaping our culture, but those who chase after the culture war as if it were the gospel are turning to a different gospel.
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One of the truest and most heartbreaking things I ever read was at the end of Blue Like Jazz, when Donald Miller talked about how the hippies showed him unconditional love, but the Christians could only love him when he shaved his beard and ironed his shirts.
I remember sitting through the Easter sermon at my parents’ church, listening to the pastor warn a squeaky-clean, khaki-clad, ironed-pleat crowd against smoking and drinking and going to parties where other people are smoking and drinking, and I have to wonder: what congregation was he preaching to? Then I came back to my own frighteningly liberal church to hear a former pastor preach against the evils of fundamentalism and wondered the same thing. When did we decide that it would be better to be convicted of other people’s sins than of our own?
Maybe it happened at the same time that we made ourselves the heroes and central characters of the Bible’s story?
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“If the love of Christ controls us, we don’t look at people as we did before. We look at them in the light of the Gospel. As persons who are invited to be reconciled to God by what God has done for them.”
Wonderful, Michael, and so true. And I so often don’t do that. It’s often the people closest to me that I don’t see in that Gospel light.
http://www.danielboonetv.com/themesong.html
“Daniel Boone was a man,
Yes, a big man!
With an eye like an eagle
And as tall as a mountain was he!”
(And lots more verses there. I remember the tune, but surely did not remember all those words. Some are really funny: “If he frowned at a river
in July all the water would freeze!” and “The singin’est, laughin’est, happiest man the frontier ever saw!” I enjoyed that show too. I would hear the music and come running to watch.)
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You seem to be referring to identity politics. A general allegiance to Christ is sufficient to distinguish Christians from members of other religions, but fails to offer a suitable identity for a denomination or faction.
In former times the rallying cry would have been some thorny theological issue (e.g. triclavianism), but in these dim-witted times the hoi polloi (redundant, I know–sorry Greek fans) need something a bit more dim-witted. Hence the “trinity” of gays, abortion, and evolution. (Liberal churches react with similar viscerality to conservative influence.)
Again, notice that denominations are not being divided over the issue of divorce, and that no one is fighting to de-recognize “remarriage” (despite the availability of plausible biblical warrant for such a project). This would tend not to serve group needs.
Notice also that the ratio of friends to enemies (your Hagan neighbors, for instance) has to be kept at a certain size for the group dynamics to work. If some group coverts the world on Monday, they’ll splinter into competing factions by Tuesday.
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The instant I see myself as anything but the chief of sinners, which happens the moment I look at another human being and believe they are worse before God than me for any reason whatsoever, I know who I am in the story of the pharisee and the publican.
That doesn’t mean I don’t do it. Frequently. Though my categories would likely be a lot different than the ones you listed. But then, my pride and arrogance are a big part of the reason I am the chief of sinners.
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…Daniel Boone was a man…. I use to love that show, and I am a girl. ha,ha
I can sing the tune right now.
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But Michael, if we stop having “bad guys” then the game is over….Oh.
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“If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for.”
– Charles Spurgeon
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This is a good post, and I don’t think you have misapplied the scripture. And I also think that the Christians in America need to hear what you have said more than what I am about to say. But I’m still going to say it. This is incomplete. God has REAL enemies. There are enemies of God who would kill his people, or persecute them in some other way. I am not convinced that this scripture or your analysis of it requires us to lapse into quasi-Amish pacifism. It would be a good idea, I think, to have a reasoned and, hopefully, calm discussion of at what point it becomes appropriate for Christians to politically or physically resist attack. I am not sure that that point is reached in this video, but that doesn’t mean that there is no such point at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riUNuyEA6oo
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It seems to me that once we get this–really and truly get this–in our own hearts and lives before the Lord, it’s a whole lot easier to extend that love to others. At least that is how it has worked in my own life.
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I’ve been saying for years that religion is, at heart, really just a fun game that has only a tangential relationship with faith – your story demonstrates the point nicely.
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I’m sad christian theologians have to sit around spending time reminding christians who they shouldn’t hate.
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If the love of Christ controls us, we don’t look at people as we did before. We look at them in the light of the Gospel. As persons who are invited to be reconciled to God by what God has done for them.
That is the way we view people in the world: in the light of the Gospel. Not in light of their politics, their sexual partners, their vote, their religion or their attitude toward Christianity.
/amen
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yep
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I honestly don’t see how anyone can argue with this post. And, I need to repent of not loving those who would do so.
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Let me get out the snark early.
I’m really looking forward to being told that this scripture actually has nothing to do the application I’ve made.
Or maybe we’ll get really relevant and have a Limited Atonement discussion.
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