“Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need.” (Matthew 6:33 NLT)
1. You won’t get very far in following Jesus if you don’t have some idea of what “the Kingdom of God” means, because Jesus talks about it constantly, and commands you to seek it.
2. Most Christian spirituality has practically pursued this as meaning, “Go to the church and all you need to know of the Kingdom is there.” That’s a very inadequate answer, and you don’t have to be an exceptionally deep Christian to know that.
3. The church should be pointing at the Kingdom all the time, both inside and outside of its own boundaries.
4. The church should be actively helping you to seek the Kingdom of God. For starters, the church should know that it isn’t the Kingdom and should be able to keep you from making that mistake.
5. The church should be teaching what the Kingdom is; mentoring you so that you will increasingly recognize it and understand how you participate in the Kingdom of God in various ways.
6. Wherever possible, the church should be facilitating and encouraging the Kingdom of God, primarily by proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom and inviting people to enter the Kingdom of God now, by faith in Jesus the Messiah.
7. The Kingdom is a present dimension of the world we live in, a world where God is actively present and at work, but it is also a coming reality, not here in fullness. Seeing the Kingdom in its present form and not insisting that it take its final form ahead of schedule is a critical balance for the follower of Jesus.
8. One of Jesus’ most important teachings about the Kingdom is its presence in the last, least, lost, little and obscure. This signals a huge change of perspective for the Christian living in post-evangelical times. We must be sensitive to the presence of the Kingdom in places that our movement treats as unimportant, even “God forsaken.”
9. We are commanded to actively seek the Kingdom, not just wonder where it might be and talk about possibilities. We are to look for it like a person looks for a lost valuable or a hidden treasure. Wherever Christians are, they are not commanded to wait until the Kingdom comes to them or they are suddenly transformed to the place of seeing the Kingdom. It is in seeking it, in the world as well as in the community of believers, that the Kingdom is discovered.
10. God’s provisions are promised in the context of seeking the Kingdom, not in seeking provisions or comfort. We can take care of ourselves, or we can seek the reign of a redeeming, rescuing, recreating God in the world, and he will take care of us along the way. Would you rather have much without his provision or what he blesses and gives you in the course of seeking the Kingdom?
11. Scripture is full of people seeking God’s Kingdom. Study them! Learn from what they learned. God taught them in the midst of the adventure.
12. Do not expect to take up this quest and return the same person. Seeking the Kingdom is a taking up and a casting off; a journey of trust and a facing of fear. But it how God describes life! Not accumulating or being culturally acceptable, but on the way to seeing the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ.
The Internet Monk Archives 
And of course the content of Christian “mystical†experience can easily, if too individualized, blend into novelties such as special revelations. (Whence your friend who apparently trance-channels God.) — Werther
With Catholics it’s “trance-channeling Mary”. That’s how we got the Baysiders, Hill-of-Hopers, and lots other Tridentine Flake Cults.
Makes me wish St Mary WOULD appear to some of these wannabe visionaries and slap some sense into them.
In my own experience I feel a mixture of skepticism and envy when someone tells me of their supernatural experiences of a religious nature. — Joe M
Same here. Too many times when “their supernatural experience of a religious nature” became just another weapon in the game of One-Upmanship — Charismatics looking down on Cessationists as “not REALLY Saved”, Cessationists looking down on Charismatics as “deluded” to “demonized”, both looking on the other (unlike themselves) as A Second-class Christian.
All I can tell you for sure about Tongues is I don’t do them. All I can tell you about blatant miracles is none have gone down in my presence and were recognizable as such. All I can tell you about demon possession and exorcism is I haven’t experienced or witnessed it (and I’m not sure I want to).
(Actually, I look upon miracles as a subset of paranormal phenomena, which I in turn view as analogous to Very Rare natural phenomena — they exist, they get reported reliably, but chances are you or I won’t be on hand to see one.)
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Ed Stetzer spoke on the relationship of the church and the kingdom at Advance 09. Audio here:
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByConference/45/3958_Keys_to_Understanding_the_Church_and_Kingdom/
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http://blog.beliefnet.com/jesuscreed/kingdom-of-god/2008/04/
Scot McKnight gave me the above URL where you can read his writings about the Kingdom of God. Be aware that in the first sentence it has a place to click to go to a page showing the writings in another format, but that link no longer works. But all the writings are there on his beliefnet URL above anyway.
Happy reading!
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Michael,
Sorry for my assumptions about what you meant about mystics and elitism.
In my own experience I feel a mixture of skepticism and envy when someone tells me of their supernatural experiences of a religious nature. If the experience sounds credible, I might conclude that life is unfair and that God gives and does not give as He sees fit. And the next step usually involves some soul searching as to why I don’t rank up there high enough for God to treat me similarly. The NT is full of examples of people having supernatural experiences and others not. I suppose Christians with mystical experiences can feel elite just like those with any other gift, be it smarts, or health or wealth or extraordinary talent. And we can envy them for what God has given them.
Maybe a paraphrase from Eleanor Roosevelt says it best for me: “no one can make you feel small unless you give them permission to do so.”
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Imonk,
By your definition of a mystic, you do think there are spiritual elites (in the early church and in OT times), just none now. I honestly don’t think God considers folks who experience him in those ways as “elite,” especially considering how he framed issues of greatness and the way certain persons acted, but c’est la vie.
God gives more to some people than to others in a variety of ways. The 12, for example were chosen out of many, and 3 were given more than the other 9. It doesn’t make them “elite.” To whom much is given, much is required.
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I am going to weigh in on the mystical experience issue.
I have had several of them, even before I started thinking about Catholicism. I do think that one thing that made my journey easier was that.
Do I think they are normative. NO WAY. Just like some of us don’t really get deep into philosophy and theology. (GRIN)
Nor would I ever advise anyone to seek them out. First, if you seek them out, you might find counterfeit ones; secondly they are scary (or at least mine were), thirdly, mine were/are extremely personal. Not for sharing. (Though I do wish that I could find a spiritual director that eventually I could trust and share about them.)
To clarify about being scary, I don’t mean as being scared as one should of hell or a raging forest fire. But, perhaps “aweful” (purposely spelled that way. Like a birthday cake candle loving and being loved by the sun.
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imonk,
I am not trying to be problematic. If you are still reading this post comments could you do some writing on a statement you made?
“In this world where the incarnation invests God with us completely.” I’m afraid you lost me completely on this one.
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iMonk: “We had an IM commenter for several months who claimed personal revelations from God. That’s a mystic in my book.”
I can see, then, why you might distrust the concept of mysticism. Obviously the word is used in different ways, not all of which would be welcome in every religious circle.
Some churches assume the term to refer to something inherently bad. For example, many Baptists assume “mysticism” to include things like astrology and spiritualism. Catholics and other liturgical churches of course have their very significant tradition of mystics…but these could not be said to be self-authenticating, or removed from accountability. (Someone mentioned spiritual direction.)
In recent years, psychologists of a certains stripe have examined various types of spiritual experience which are often called “mystical.” Even Baptists would accept, for example, that a person might experience a feeling of grace, or the promptings of conscience, even if they avoid the m-word. Of course a feeling cannot authenticate itself, and the purpose of religion should not be to inculcate certain feelings of experiences. (If you want that, take drugs.)
Pietism seems to have arisen out of a desire among Protestants for their Christian devotions to feel meaningful. Its opponents accused the pietists of thereby disbelieving in solo fide (saying one only needs faith, not any “special” experience). And of course the content of Christian “mystical” experience can easily, if too individualized, blend into novelties such as special revelations. (Whence your friend who apparently trance-channels God.)
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Newadvent.org has an entry on the Kingdom of God that I’ve found really helpful. It’s at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08646a.htm
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Michael, thanks for the example of the Lord’s Prayer. That really was helpful to my understanding.
So the Kingdom is to seek to do the will of God. Okay, I think we can all agree on that much? 🙂
What is His will? Ask for our daily bread; forgive our enemies; ask for forgiveness.
Love the Lord with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our mind, and love our neighbour as ourselves.
If we love Him, keep His commandments.
Feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the sick and those in prison, take the stranger in to our home.
Watch for the coming of the Bridegroom. Use the talents entrusted to us by the Master.
I think maybe the mistrust of mysticism Michael is referring to has more to do with the over-emphasis some denominations or churches put on spiritual experiences (e.g. if you don’t speak in tongues, you are not saved!) to the expense of the works commanded of us – alsmgiving and feeding the hungry, etc.
From the Catholic/Orthodox side, the enclosed religious are separate from the world, but not separated from it – they are doing work for the world in their contemplation, solitude and sacrifice. While we toil in the world, investing the talents, they keep the oil-lamps alight, watching for the bridegroom.
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Also if you think God is urging you to do something (A mystic is a self-refencing authority) you need to be in spiritual direction. I don’t teach a contemplative prayer class with out being in direction.
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If they say God has told me that I am to marry John Smith, what is poor John Smith to do?
Move to a state without gay marriage, of course!
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ps. I believe everyone has so called “Mystical experiences”. We just don’t always recognize them.
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Getting back on topic, the Kingdom of God. I believe God has a big Kingdom. He has room for all of us.
I agree about saying what “God told me”. That sure not what I am about.It is control freaking. So is “I asked God for a husband and he is going to give me one because Scripture says ask and you shall receive”.
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I get in enough trouble with my own. I don’t need help in the area. I never said contemplative spirituality is the top of the mountain.
Maybe Jesus shapes come in different sizes and patterns.
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We disagree on the definition of a mystic. I said a mystic is one who has mystical experiences. Such experiences, when shared as normative, raise the issues of why one person has them and another doesn’t.
We had an IM commenter for several months who claimed personal revelations from God. That’s a mystic in my book. When commenting, she would tell us what God told her. My best friend is a Catholic because, in part, she has mystical experiences of Mary answering prayers. Just her. Not me. There’s nothing arrogant about this. But it creates a spiritual elite. God talks to them and not us. God gives them visions and not us.
The mystic is a self-referencing authority. He/she can claim anything and there is no verification. If they say God has told me that I am to marry John Smith, what is poor John Smith to do?
Prayer is not something that can be divided into a team sport. Rational vs Mystical. And Christianity can’t be divided into people who have a devotional life and people who don’t, both wagging their fingers and nagging at the other. None of these things are all or nothing. I have a mystical element to my faith. God told me to work where I work. God has spoken to me about my wife’s Catholicism. But I don’t tell others about this, because that implies that God should be talking to them, and they rightfully can say “Does God not love me? I need to hear his voice as well.”
I am not going to respond to questions based on a premise you have furnished and no one on this thread has stated or agreed with. You continually ask questions then furnish the negative answer in the next statement. How many times am I supposed to type “That’s not what I said or believe.”
Further, we are off topic. We are chasing a rabbit that was never mentioned in the post and we aren’t going to settle this because I am not going to agree that contemplative spirituality is the top of the mountain.
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imonk,
I am just trying to figure it out. Real Christianity (your words not mine) is a very big tent in my opinion. Mystics are people who have a profound prayer life. They are part of the Body as you are. Same Spirit different gifts.
Many feel their active life in ministry is where they are expressing God. Is that dividing because other don’t or can’t participate in the Body this way? Should you stop talking about your ministry to students because other can’t do that?
Because some one received the gift of the baptism in the Spirit or tongues or visions we must discount them because we didn’t receive these gifts?
Would you please tell me what you mean by prayer is prayer? In my opinion prayer is more than asking God for what I want. Because you don’t like the way some people pray is it wrong? People can only pray the way you do?
And you did say “mysticism is elitism”. Why?
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Joe M:
I did not say mystics were arrogant. Or that anyone was arrogant.
And you- not me- equated mysticism with having a prayer life.
Mysticism is not prayer. Prayer is prayer. A mystic in my definition is a person who has mystical experiences. IF they normatize those, and if I haven’t had one, then we’ve got the “had the experience” people and the “haven’t had the experience.”
A good friend of mine is a Catholic today because of visions. I don’t have them. Does God not like me?
It’s just like Charismatics saying they have “the baptism” and I don’t. It’s not arrogant. It’s a dividing.
Your restatement of what I said is unacceptable to me.
ms
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“Mysticism is elitism. That doesn’t mean all mystics are wrong. It does mean they, either by temperament or by experiences, are always telling the ordinary Christian the functional equivalent of “You don’t have enough God experience.â€
Wow! – Have you met many of whoever “they” are? In my experience, that kind of arrogance has been found usually in other places: the newly converted, the weekly bible study groupie, the guy at work who feels the need to tell you the “Good News.” Not in the person who has an intense prayer life. I think there is plenty of arrogance in the Church.
“Biblical Fundamentalism “Bible Believin’ Church” is elitism”
“Ritualism is elitism”
“Iconoclasm is elitism”
“Education is elitism”
Of course pride is a common sin. But anybody who devotes much of their life to a particular way of experiencing God is going to champion that way. In our egalitarian society they will be labeled a snob. But if they are finding the real, living God, it does not matter.
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Sue:
>….Do you honestly believe people can live the life you are asking them to live ie “Jesus shaped†with out the help of the Holy Spirit? As long as you stay in your head you are safe from God.
I’m not comfortable having to say this to someone who is my elder in the faith and in life, but this kind of comment is simply unacceptable. No one has suggested anyone do anything without the Holy Spirit. No one is suggesting anyone live in their head. Such accusations are very inappropriate in this discussion. The appropriate words for suggesting some of us are denying the work of the Holy Spirit of sentence are “outrageous” and “uncharitable.”
You seem to have decided that your role here at IM is to react to everything I write in the same way. You are advocating your spiritual path and vocabulary (which is fine) to the point that I am having to defend myself regarding issues ONLY YOU have raised. There is a prosecutorial tone that I am not comfortable with, and I am sorry to have to say so.
Your participation is welcome and interesting, but I am not sponsoring a debate that descends into questioning the basic Christian commitments of commenters.
Various points of view? Sure. Demanding- and I can think of no other word- that I “justify” various things, etc.? Not in the spirit of the blog. I have said this before and I am not saying it again: Our various paths and experiences are not a contest for the claim of “real Christianity.”
ms
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Michael Bell –
What is a good definition of “Gospel†that includes “Kingdom�
Good question. I don’t think every time we communicate the gospel we have to utilise the word ‘kingdom’. And I think you would agree. The same is true in that we don’t have to quote John 3:16 or a few Scriptures from Romans to acceptably communicate the gospel. The gospel is quite broad. I am not embracing any kind of universalist inclusion here. But the gospel is more than a few statements, and communicating the good news will vary in varying situations. And I know you know this.
I like what George Ladd said in his book, The Gospel of the Kingdom: ‘The Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Heaven, eternal life, salvation: they are all interchangeable terms.’
Still, I would believe it healthy to the see the church understand and embrace the kingdom (or gospel of the kingdom) more, since it was the passion of Jesus. It’s just that the word/phrase was never defined in Scripture because many would have had some understanding of what the phrase communicates, though some of the leaders confused it as the Messiah coming to set up a political kingdom.
Anyways, the good news (gospel) of the kingdom of God is that the manifestation of the rule of God has broken into human history through the arrival of the King, Jesus. With the rule of God breaking into this present age, the blessings of the kingdom come as well – salvation, healing, His will being done, righteousness. Yet, we still await the final summing up of things when the King returns. (Maybe that definition is too long.)
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We’ll probably never know the full extent of the kingdom and all that it encompasses — not while we’re still looking through the dark glass of finite human perception and understanding. But scripture does make it clear that active, self-sacrificing love is the prevailing law and governmental mandate of the kingdom. So, even if we don’t fully understand it, we can still be good citizens of it.
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ok, I had to go to a pot luck-part: Big of my tradition.
“You don’t have enough God experience”
Hum. Are you reluctnt to ask someone to “give their heart to Jesus” because in your tradition you believe that is what will “save them?
Then why would you find it difficult for me to encourage you and others to “know the Lord”? Not in some intellectual theological way but to know Him in your soul?
Do you honestly believe people can live the life you are asking them to live ie “Jesus shaped” with out the help of the Holy Spirit? As long as you stay in your head you are safe from
God.
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I’m glad you worded it as “The church should” because quite frankly, It has been years since I stepped foot inside of an institutional church that didn’t want everyone to think that it is the Kingdom of God. I know better and you know better. But let’s face it, most do not.
Pretty pathetic!!! But you are right on, the church should help believers to know what the kingdom is and to help them seek it and find it.
Blessings,
Gary
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I like this:
When Jesus come “at the end of the ages” it will be his first coming for some.
It will be his second coming for others.
It will be his third coming for some.
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I like that, Headless Unicorn Guy (Can I call you…”HUG”?) about the pragmatic and mystic Christians. We need both and we actually need to BE both. We come to God in prayer, approach his throne, allow his gracious goodness to mold us and heal us and then we go out and feed the poor, love the unlovable, get up every day even when it’s hard. Mystic and pragmatic.
And where does the Church come in here? The Church guides us, feeds us spiritually and brings the disciples together to worship our King…Jesus. We are then strengthened to go out into the world and do our part to allow “thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.” The little mustard seed Kingdom both within us and within the world at large grows as we share the love of God with others. And no, this world will never be perfect until Jesus returns, but he wants out participation. It is how we grow and how we come to know him and to be more like him while we remain ourselves.
This is my take on it anyway.
Michael, I like your bit in #9: “Wherever Christians are, they are not commanded to wait until the Kingdom comes to them or they are suddenly transformed to the place of seeing the Kingdom. It is in seeking it, in the world as well as in the community of believers, that the Kingdom is discovered.”
Scot McKnight had a multi-part series of writings about the Kingdom of God, but I can’t find it online right now. I have emailed Scot to see if he will give me the URL. I hope his email address is still what I have for him.
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Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. If seeking the indwelling God creates the sin of elitism, then the person looking for the Kingdom is heading away from it. But if you seek, you shall find, meaning you’re heading toward it.
Maybe Martha got it right and Mary was elitist, but Jesus didn’t care. Mary was seeking the Kingdom in her own way.
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Mysticism is elitism. That doesn’t mean all mystics are wrong. It does mean they, either by temperament or by experiences, are always telling the ordinary Christian the functional equivalent of “You don’t have enough God experience.†— IMonk
Paraphrasing St Paul on tongues and spiritual gifts:
Some are pragmatics, some are mystics. The pragmatic Christian should not look down on the mystic Christian as a foggy-headed dreamer; the mystic Christian should not look down on the pragmatic Christian as “lacking enough God experience”.
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iMonk: “Mysticism is elitism.”
It doesn’t have to be. Think of the “mysteries” of the church. Historically, the language and concept was borrowed from ancient Near Eastern paganism, which had (for example) voluntary initiation ceremonies comparable to baptism, and communal ritual meals comparable to the eucharist or agape feast.
Note that anybody can participate, not only an elite. Of course, not everyone will attain to an equal appreciation of their depths, but that would be true of any intellectual or spiritual gift.
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Myrddin, I’m pretty sure Zossima wasn’t Roman Catholic.
🙂
I would connect the Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven with the Greatest Commandment / New Commandment. When we have love (in the sense of genuine caring), then to that extent, we enter the kingdom and help make it manifest. It’s not “in heaven,” or the birds of the air would get there before us, etc.
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Agree. I got their by God’s will. I am an over the top extravert who as you might notice never shuts up. God uses our weakness to show it is Him not ourselves doing it. I would not have picked it. Feeding people in Africa would be more my style. I don’t have a big education and don’t know all this fancy theology. I am a wife, mother and grandma. Sixth grandchild due Thanksgiving day.
We are all unique. We all have different life experiences. I think your mother was a role model of the Godly life.
However, Paul didn’t fall off the horse and blind himself. The Apostles didn’t get it until the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost even though they spent three years with Jesus.
We all are spiritual beings,eternal beings. We don’t have to have visions or hear voices to notice God’s little miracles every day. All I can tell you is He is with us, truly with us. Please don’t dismiss us we are part of the Body and not elitist at all.
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Fr.Ernesto wrote:
I tend to view the Church as the place where the Kingdom of God breaks through into this world at this point in time.
I think that’s partly right, maybe even mostly right (but that would depend a lot on the church , I guess). The church might not be the whole knife, maybe the knife’s edge.. not the whole flame, but where the flame burns hottest. Just working off lunch here.
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>…I mean living a Spiritual life from the God within.
If Jesus said it. I’m for it. If some other guy did, then it’s less interesting. Sounds like some other guy on first read.
I’m not really aware of how you concluded anyone was advocating not having a “spiritual life.”
Mysticism is elitism. That doesn’t mean all mystics are wrong. It does mean they, either by temperament or by experiences, are always telling the ordinary Christian the functional equivalent of “You don’t have enough God experience.”
I didn’t write the Lord’s Prayer or the Sermon on the Mount. I’m not selling much of an interpretation of either. I don’t see Jesus turning the disciples into Mystics. The experiences they had fit into the Apostolic curriculum, but we all don’t have to see visions, miracles or hear voices. We don’t have to sign up for a course in subjective experience.
We all have an experience, and God respects our personhood. Many people can’t read. Can’t go to Holy places. Can’t pursue a mystical way. They can do practical things. Love in practical ways and that’s it.
My mother didn’t have a mystical bone. She may have had little sense of God’s presence. But she served him and loved others like him. If Jesus said something, she either didn’t understand it, or she believed it or she did it.
I think that’s the Christian life. We believe some things and we do some things.
I don’t want to squabble over mysticism, because I am on good terms with a lot of those folks. But I have a low tolerance for dividing the Christian body up into various groups based on how much theology can be ingested or how much mysticism can be cooked up.
ms
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How do you personally join Him in what He is doing if you have no personal spiritual life? I am curious. How literal do you look at Scripture is another thing I am asking.
I think at one time on my journey I agreed with you. Not to say I am ahead or behind. We are all beginners here on the planet and may be in different places. I had a pastor who kept saying (at least to my ears) the farthest place is between the head and the heart. What? Once I got that, well, I was in a different place. I don’t mean I (me me me) gives my heart to Jesus. I mean living a Spiritual life from the God within. Is that too mystical for you???
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I am convinced that both Stalin and Mao both wanted sincerely to create heaven on earth. -_ Sue Kephart
As did Robespierre, Mullah Omar, Osama bin Laden, and the Taliban. The evil creeps in when others (made in God’s Image) become tools to be used or obstacles to be destroyed for that Vision of Heaven on Earth.
Or (even worse) that Vision of Heaven in Heaven (as in Fluffy Cloud Heaven), with the physical cosmos (and physical things like…people) removed from the picture entirely. (Which makes a mockery of the Incarnation.) IMonk’s stressing of the here-and-now aspect of the Kingdom is there as a counter to the Evangelical emphasis on “the Sweet By and By” aspect isolated in an indefinite mystical/spiritual future. Either without the other is badly out of balance, one of those doctrines that by itself (according to Chesterton) could easily lay waste to a world.
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Sue:
On the HS students. I completely agree. I think most people with a modest education can solve a lot of problems so called experts make complicated.
You don’t have to alert me that we don’t agree on many things. I’ve certainly noticed. That’s what makes IM the place that it is.
I don’t believe the Bible teaches that we bring the KofG in our power or in a political form. Scripture says that plainly. But to imply that “your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” ought to be spiritualized or mysticized into something utterly personal, rather than read straightforwardly as it is record is going to far. The word “earth” is purposeful and elegantly simple. God is bringing a Kingdom to earth. It is in Jesus and it is in his people. But it is more than that, as Jesus’ teachings make plain. It can be perceived, seen, observed and build up in this world. God is at work bringing it. We join him in what he is doing, not vice versa.
ms
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And most high school students can figure out that God did not create the world in six 24 hour days.
You and I are not going to agree on some things. Like what it means to have a life of prayer and meditation. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, for example.
I also accept that I surely don’t know everything. I don’t say this meanly but there is something that worries me about people who want to bring about the Kingdom of God now on the planet. They come in many denoms so don’t think I am picking on yours.
I am convinced that both Stalin and Mao both wanted sincerely to create heaven on earth. Does it scare you at all that your vision may not be what God wants. That your interpretation of Scripture may not be correct? Do you believe that God can and will do this Himself?
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Sue,
First of all, I don’t think I have to “justify” anything, but I will be glad to answer questions.
I like Merton for many reasons, but not because I believe in Roman Catholicism, or Merton’s particular brand of mysticism. Much of his personal take on mystical theology leaves me cold. He’s a very interesting human being, with an amazing journey. I am not “all or nothing” about my church, my books or myself. I don’t believe I have all the answers, despite that hone number.
I am also well aware, as would be most high school students, that Jesus is using a smilie, and that we are talking about a characteristic shared by the Kingdom and a small seed: tiny beginnings and larger results.
ms
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I admit to being a huge George Eldon Ladd fan. So, I tend to view the Church as the place where the Kingdom of God breaks through into this world at this point in time. There will come the day when, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever.”
Jjoe had a very good point. Often we do see the Kingdom of God most clearly breaking in when we see “people sweating in a hot kitchen” etc. But, I would argue that we can see the Kingdom of God breaking in when we meet a holy monk (yes, there are unholy monks too, and I am, all too often, a not-holy priest) who has given up this world for the next. And, we can see the Kingdom of God breaking in when we go to the heavenlies in our worship and heaven comes down to earth in response.
When the Church is functioning correctly, it is like a bunch of fireflies all winking with the light of their gifts, ministries, and services. Those “fireflies” remind us that there is a greater light that is yet to return and a dawn that is yet to brighten the world and a Son that is yet to come in the full glory of his transfigured self and that there are tears that shall be wiped away and words of welcome and commendation to be spoken and received. The Kingdom of God is among you.
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imonk,
Please explain what your understanding of Jesus saying, “the Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed’ if you can’t go beyond the words. I guess I would be confused to think of the Kingdom as a small pit.
Also how do you justify your liking of Thomas Merton, Fr. Louis, as he was a monk in a monastery and a huge mystic.
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Another example, Paul talks about us being taken out of the kingdom of darkness or Satan and into the kingdom of God’s son. We do well to think of these as competing “administrations” rather than two separate “realms.” Jesus is fundamentally a leader–the leader. To get on board with him, to trust him, to follow him, to co-operate with him, to make his agenda our own, is to “enter” and “receive” his government, his reign, his rule.
Despite the historical confusion over the topic, it’s not really complicated. We will be led by Jesus and shaped by him (and like him), becoming an instrument of his will in the world for its renewal, or continue to be led and shaped by darker powers for opposite ends.
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“I do not believe the Kingdom is mystically perceived by people in monasteries, etc. It is in the world, where the incarnation invests God with us completely.”
Sometimes I feel like Evangelicalism is more of an earnestly-played wordgame where the winners permanently hypnotize themselves with triumphalist ‘mystical’ nonsense and the losers eventually find themselves totally disowned by the church.
I like mysticism, but not at the expense of the beating human heart near the center of the Bible. I said this in another comment, but the Psalms, in my opinion, are the absolute realness and scrape at the depths of what it is to be human in a way that a million Hillsong United choruses and the “God feelings” they generate just mock.
We need to recover our sense of being made from dirt before we turn to the Bible for answers. I pray that we’re given the humility to discover what the psalmists and the Gospel writers knew about men, so we can better know what they found at their rest in God.
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imonk,
Although I would agree with your first section often this gets translated into My will be done.
The second section. That’s the difference between the tradtions. It hasn’t anything to do with monks in monasteries as such but if you see Scripture as literal or Divinely Inspired.
Mystics are people who follow Jesus not woo woos!
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It is in the world, where the incarnation invests God with us completely.
My experience exactly, even @ WORK (go figure)
Greg R
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Fr Ermesto: I loved your comments about Matt 28:20 connected to discipleship. Maybe a sure sign of HIS Kingdom advancing is when HIS followers live like….HIS followers. Profound, yeah, I know 🙂
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I would disagree with Sue. Jesus’ words that God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven is a fine definition of what Jesus meant by the Kingdom of God. Also, Jesus frequently does something and proclaims that it is the Kingdom.
I do not believe the Kingdom is mystically perceived by people in monasteries, etc. It is in the world, where the incarnation invests God with us completely.
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In response to “what is the Kingdom ?”, a superlative question, BTW, T asks:
What is a government?
this could get weird in a hurry, IMO, I like “rule, reign, INFLUENCE” much better. Holding onto the “government” descriptor and we likely fall in love a particular package, and not JESUS HIMSELF.
The linear part of me hates this, but I’m glad that JESUS was far more into SHOWING us the Kingdom, than wrangling out the best and slickest definition for it. The same maybe said for a lot of HIS theology: more a picture of , a demostration of, not a wordy explanation of…
sorry seminary geek types
Greg R
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Jay,
“Divine Conspiracy” is a great place to start. If things seem difficult to understand, keep at it- read it again, or set it aside and then come back to it. After having been a Christian all my life, it was that book that not only explained to me what “heaven” and “Kingom” are, but convinced me that God is good. Not just as assent to the truth about God’s goodness articulated in scripture, but that God is *really, truly Good*.
Much of what Willard explains is about how Jesus’ hearers would have understood the phrase “Kingdom of God”. NT Wright is even better on this. The two of them gave my faith a new life.
Dana
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I think Jay, Eclectic and JimBob hit recurrent and important issues. In fact, I think Jay more clearly states how my camp of the church taught ‘kingdom’–it just got equated with heaven. — T
Which had the side effect of making the whole concept Unreal.
“Fluffy Cloud Heaven”, in the words of TV Tropes.
“Pie in the Sky when you Die”, in the words of that nasty Wobbly anthem.
IMonk has blogged extensively on the subject, how Fluffy Cloud Heaven hijacked the Kingdom. Here are three postings, a book review, and an interview:
Too Much Heaven, Part 1
Too Much Heaven, Part 2
Too Much Heaven, Part 3
Heaven Misplaced (book review)
Heaven is a Place on Earth (interview)
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Jesus didn’t give us a dictionary definition of the Kingdom. He gave Himself as a model of one living in the Kingdom. He gave us many parables. Because the Bible is the Inspired Word of God, through our meditation on theses the Spirit can still to this day speak to us of a meaning beyond the words.
Yes, we need spiritual guidance with this process as well. A director, trusted mature Christian (s) or group. We need prayer time asking God to guide us in our search. Ask and you will receive is not about a lexis in the garage but #10 in imonks writing above. Seek the Kingdom as you would a treasure of great price hidden in a field. Seek and you will find. Ask and it will be open to you.
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iMonk –
Thanks for sharing these thoughts. I love the kingdom of God. Well, Jesus was more obsessed with it. And it is so good to remember that the church is not the kingdom, for the kingdom of God was around a long time before the ekklesia.
Since there are so many obscure understandings of the kingdom of God (a place in the sky or where one goes after death), it might have been good to give a simple definition of it – the rule of God.
Thanks again.
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Jim,
What is a government? (I’m not being sarcastic in the least; I’m saying that as you think about what governments are and do, you can then jump into asking what God’s government is and does, and how Jesus, the Christ-ened king of that government, the ecclesia, the Sermon on the Mount, the Great Commands, Commission etc. fit into that.)
The bit in the Lord’s prayer “thy will be done” then becomes the near equivalent of “thy kingdom come.” The prayer is asking for these dynamics to be located more “on earth” as they are already fully established and functioning in heaven.
Hope that helps.
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Okay, I’ll bite: what IS the Kingdom of God? If “the church should be teaching what the Kingdom is,” how about helping the church out here a little bit?
I don’t find a definition of anything, in particular, in the Lord’s Prayer. Help me out here.
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I came to Christ – after almost 45 years of attending church, when I finally grasped what Jesus meant in Matthew 4:17. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” I had been believing the latter and ignoring the former.”
34 years later, we are still walking the same path and it is as the Bible also proclaims, “.. joy inexpressible and full of glory.”
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near= ok
at the door, upon you = better
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When Jesus told us the kingdom of God was near, he didn’t necessarily mean near in time.
He meant it is right here, right now, right next to us. If we could only get there!
But I think we all have felt the Kingdom breaking through. Small glimpses here and there. When I see people sweating in a hot kitchen to feed ragged unwashed homeless people. When I see my 6th grade daughter kneel to wash someone’s feet on Maundy Thursday. When I see someone give the gift of being fully present.
Even when I think about Father’s day. I just facebooked this so I’ll stick it here, too 🙂
Bless all fathers and all those who have given fatherly love.
As You have given life, so they have given us life.
Give them joy as children feel joy
At making part of Your wonderful creation.
Let them know richness and satisfaction;
Let them feel our gratitude and love
We thank you for the gift of our fathers.
Pour out your blessings on them, and
Let their lives be long so we may love them even more.
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Sorry, Sue’s second comment gives some guidance to Eclectic’s question, as does the Lord’s prayer (your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven).
Arguably, the whole of scripture is written within the context of the government of God vis a vis the creation.
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OK, Try this one. In our western culture we are taught, “I think, therefore I am”. Like Freud: If they could just figure out why they are hitting themselves in the head they would stop. After much time and money we now know why, but continue hitting ourselves in the head, sooooo, let’s look at it from another point of view.
I am because God created me to be. I think a lot of things. Just because I think it doesn’t make it true. Theology is fun and probably necessary for us humans….the why I am hitting myself. Theology is the study of God it is not God. We only know God through our hearts.
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Amen, Michael.
I think Jay, Eclectic and JimBob hit recurrent and important issues. In fact, I think Jay more clearly states how my camp of the church taught ‘kingdom’–it just got equated with heaven.
Some of the answer to Eclectic’s question is in Sue’s first comment. We tend to understand that ‘proclaiming Jesus’ is central to the gospel. It’s just that we tend to not think of that proclamation quite the way the NT church did. Namely, we tend to not think of ‘proclaiming Jesus as the Christ’ as a political announcement–that he is (the new) lord over all lords and deserves supreme allegiance. As the highest king, we do well to reorder our whole lives around his priorities, his ways. We must “enter” or “receive” his kingdom, his Administration as it were, that is now operative on the earth. He has died to sin and the laws of this current age, inaugurated the new age of his kingdom, and invites us to consider ourselves as dead to this current age and its laws to live according to the newness of life in his kingdom, which will be the only one on and for the earth.
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The Kingdom and the Gospel are defined in the Lord’s Prayer, but the mechanism of the Gospel isn’t defined there. That was revealed in Jesus death/rez/ascension.
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2. Most Christian spirituality has practically pursued this as meaning, “Go to the church and all you need to know of the Kingdom is there.â€
As in “spend ALL your time in Church 24/7/365 and don’t dare associate with any HEATHEN on the outside except to Soul-Win them on pain of losing your Salvation”?
I was reading something on monergism “Hell’s best kept secret†It talks bout how 90% of folks who “make decisions†for Christ fall away. They are not taught about seeking the kingdom, but told that if they “accept Jesus as personal saviour†they will have peace, confort, no problems, wonderful life. — Stan Hankins
You forgot “and sit back, hide in church, do nothing, only wait for Jesus to come back and beam you up into the Never-ending Church Service”.
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After 29 years in the faith, it has only been in the last year that I’ve actually learned something about the kingdom. And I had to mostly figure it out on my own, as it has never been emphasized in any (evangelical protestant) church I’ve been a part of.
The three books I’ve read that have helped me are:
Divine Conspiracy, by Dallas Willard,
Gospel of the Kingdom, by George Eldon Ladd
Death by Church, by Mike Erre
None are “light” reads. Are there others that the community would recommend?
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Tonic! Both the post and the comments.
A conduit of courage. Thanks so much.
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Wow. Much to ponder here. I’m trying to restrain my cheering for point (2). It’s a struggle not to let my frustrations with my immediate situation divert me from the overarching pursuit of the kingdom. (Not something I’ve had a lot of success with, in the past fifteen years.) Perhaps it’s time to stop passing the buck…
Dude the First, would you consider writing a follow-on piece summarizing your take on what Jesus meant by the Kingdom (present tense)? When I read the gospels, I see Him painting vivid images of the Kingdom, but sometimes I don’t quite get the details. And I’ve been studying it for over 40 years. Your summary would be an interesting read.
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Here is a sincere question for iMonk and commentators. If you ask someone to define “the Gospel”, the answer you get almost never includes “the Kingdom”, yet the Bible talks about “the gospel of the Kingdom.” What is a good definition of “Gospel” that includes “Kingdom”?
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Yes. And also the Gospels,Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Don’t panic. It’s a process. Keep seeking that’s the key. Trust in God.
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I know I’ll come across as ignorant but…I’m lost. I’m one of those who was taught that the “Kingdom of God” is essentially another term for Heaven. I’ve known that can’t be totally right since Jesus said things like “the Kingdom of God is at hand”.
So where can I find out what the “Kingdom of God” is and it’s relevance to the world today? I recently purchased “The Divine Conspiracy” and it’s started to talk about some of this. Is this a good place to start learning?
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I think Jesus’ message disarms reasons for not coming to God:
1) We can’t live in the Kingdom because we are sinners, so why bother? and
2) We can’t get to God because the time has not yet come; the Kingdom is not yet here.
Jesus reveals that sinners, recognizing their need, are most likely to enter the Kingdom and that the Kingdom is accessible to us.
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Very thought-provoking post, Michael.
What *is* the Kingdom? What do we mean when we talk about the Kingdom? How does it differ from the Church? How does the Church fit in?
I’ve seen some versions put forward where “working for the Kingdom” means working for (admirable in themselves but not the be-all and end-all) goals of social justice: eliminate poverty, eliminate inequality, work for peace. However, the enthusiasm for this work often veers off into ‘we can attain the Kingdom on earth right now, right here!’ and often both the aims and methods become indistinguishable from purely secular and civil ones.
On the other hand, that does not mean we can excuse ourselves from “Whatsoever ye did unto these, the least of My brethren, ye did unto Me” by saying “Let the government/social workers/civil charities handle this stuff; it’s not our job to deal with this and besides, it’s works righteousness to even try.”
Yeah – what do *I* mean by the Kingdom? I have to admit, I don’t know.
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Jesus is the King of the Kingdom. Seeking after Jesus Christ is also seeking after His Kingdom. As Fr. Ernesto indicated above: We are both loving God in Christ and learning to live in His Kingdom now and forever.
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The fact that we ultimately need God’s gift grace is the obvious response to failing to live the Christian life perfectly. It’s not a reason to do what many do (not you I’ll assume) i.e. find ways to throw Jesus teachings and ministry into storage.
I find it a fascinating development that we say we want Jesus to be the center, but then have an aversion (again, not saying that’s your position) to what he made the center of his teaching in the synoptics.
Jesus IS the one who makes the Kingdom the command and the reality in which we live and serve God. The fact that someone has used that emphasis to unbalance the Biblical message is no more a hazard than the fact that cults get Jesus himself wrong.
“In many discussion the Kingdom becomes the centre….” Is there a danger of constantly revisiting the same theological points to the end result that we have turned the Gospel into a hairsplitting exercise of comparing everyone’s theological footnotes, looking for some error? The Kingdom is an invitation to actually Live the Life. Get out of our theological lecture halls and go join the Spirit at work in the world. Surely this is the much needed balance to the theological microscope exercise we’re experiencing now.
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Hmm, you have misunderstood, but it was easy to do considering how I phrased it.
My response was not that “seeking the Kingdom of God” as Jesus commanded is a Pharisaical thing to do, but rather that, as I percieve it, in many discussions “the Kingdom” becomes the centre rather than Jesus himself.
BTW I don’t think hearing law when talking about discipleship is limited to one segment of Christianity. It’s pretty endemic to humanity. That may be my problem, but as far as I’m aware, my biggest problem I have with the Sermon on the Mount is living it out, not seeing it as legalistic.
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Absolutely brilliant! Thanks.
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Ali:
Jesus said it. Was he a Pharisee?
Or was he playing word games? You once again demonstrate that when talking about discipleship, one segment of Christianity will always hear law. It’s commendable to emphasize the Gospel of his righteousness, because that’s the truth, but if the Sermon on the Mount becomes a threat to my faith- which is where some reformation types take it- something is well off the bull’s eye.
ms
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I apologise for interupting the sustained applause in the comment section ;), but I’m fairly confident that honesty is still valued here.
From my position on the fringe of discussions about the kingdom, the above points feel (how subjective!) as though they miss the bulls-eye.
I understand and accept the Kingdom of God is now and not yet. I understand that it is spoken of almost continuously by Jesus. But in much of today’s discussion (and I admit only eavesdropped on) it almost takes on a life of its own.
One of Jesus’ most important teachings about the Kingdom is its presence in the last, least, lost, little and obscure. “In” or “among”. Or even “belongs to”? I think it makes a difference. And is it present outside of Jesus or just the Church? And is it present outside the Church if the Church has the keys to the Kingdom? (Matt 16:19)
(Let me be quick to say that I agree that kingdom work must be done outside the Church as well as in.)
I guess my unease is also fed by a lack of understanding of kingdoms as a whole. I live in one (in Australia) but it is far different from the kingdoms in Jesus’ day.
I just (and this is merely an honest first response) didn’t come away from the post excited about Jesus’ Kingdom – rather, my overall gut reaction was that “seeking the Kingdom” (despite mention of Jesus and God) is a new way to attain righteousness.
And I guess, for me, that just misses the bulls-eye.
Hey, don’t beat me up. I’m just telling you my gut-level response from the sidelines.
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imonk, you da man. I was reading something on monergism “Hell’s best kept secret” It talks bout how 90% of folks who “make decisions” for Christ fall away. They are not taught about seeking the kingdom, but told that if they “accept Jesus as personal saviour” they will have peace, confort, no problems, wonderful life.
Wow. Jesus must have been having a bad day when he said, “Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me”
imonk, you da man.
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a resounding amen from me michael!
thanks for this. asking permission to share this with our church. with credit to you of course.
“One of Jesus’ most important teachings about the Kingdom is its presence in the last, least, lost, little and obscure. This signals a huge change of perspective for the Christian living in post-evangelical times. We must be sensitive to the presence of the Kingdom in places that our movement treats as unimportant, even “God forsaken.â€
this is the point that struck me the most. our christianity has been all about victory, effectiveness, money and power. this is the essence of the Gospel, i think, that we are all the last, least, lost, little and obscure and we need Jesus as our Lamb and Lion.
thanks again. have a blessed day!
alvin
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I agree in the exteme with number 3 — that “the church should always be pointing to the kingdom, both inside and outside its boundaries.” For centuries, churchianity has been plagued and divided by narrow, small, and exclusive presentations of the kingdom. Shut in behind our entrenched battle lines of tradition, practice, and doctrine, we’ve forgotten the spiritual kinship, fellowship, and unity we share with everyone and everything in creation that knows, loves, and obeys the Creator — which is, by the way, how I would define the kingdom.
I often get frustrated with the skeptical view that the divisions within Christianity can never be overcome or resoloved. I believe that our God can do anything, and I believe that bringing His family and kingdom together in unity of the Spirit under the actual and literal headship of Christ is definitely on His list of things to do.
Maybe, the seperations and denominations within Christianity are comparable to the individual Isrealite craftsmen who were commissioned to work individually on specific parts of the tabernacle. And, maybe, when each of the countless expressions of His church have completed their allotted tasks, then He will start fitting us together like pieces of a puzzle. Maybe that’s starting to happen in our own day. I, for one, would love to see religious walls that divide us come tumbling down.
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Great post Michael.
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Hey iMonk! It looks as though you have been reading some George Eldon Ladd lately. The only point that caused me to pause was point 6, where you said, “. . . primarily by proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom and inviting people to enter the Kingdom of God now, by faith in Jesus the Messiah.”
The Great Commission says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” It has two major movements, only one of which was cited by you. “Go and make disciples, baptizing them . . .” is the equivalent of your “proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom . . .” But, the Gospel of the Kingdom also includes, “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.”
To make the preaching of the Kingdom with the baptizing of the converts as the prime responsibility of the Church is to unbalance what Jesus said in a very typical American Protestant way. Jesus said to BOTH preach the Gospel and to teach them to obey, in other words, to teach them how to properly behave like Christians. They are equal movements, 50/50. A Christian preaches and a Christian disciples. One without the other is not the full preaching of the Kingdom of God. There is no primary movement, both are equally necessary.
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Well said, Michael.
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Amen and amen.
I might phrase #4 a little differently, but only because I would equate how you define the kingdom in #7 with the church.
I’m not a Roman Catholic, but draw this understanding more from something like the discussion of the church in The Brothers Karamazov, and particularly from the teachings of Father Zossima:
“It is true,” said Father Zossima, with a smile, “the Christian society now is not ready and is only resting on some seven righteous men, but as they are never lacking, it will continue still unshaken in expectation of its complete transformation from a society almost heathen in character into a single universal and all-powerful Church. So be it, so be it! Even though at the end of the ages, for it is ordained to come to pass! And there is no need to be troubled about times and seasons, for the secret of the times and seasons is in the wisdom of God, in His foresight, and His love. And what in human reckoning seems still afar off, may by the Divine ordinance be close at hand, on the eve of its appearance. And so be it, so be it!”
Preach it, though, pastor. Great post.
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thanks, i needed to hear this tonight.
peace
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Great post, my takeaway… “One of Jesus’ most important teachings about the Kingdom is its presence in the last, least, lost, little and obscure. This signals a huge change of perspective for the Christian living in post-evangelical times.”
That sentence has catapulted the church into a world in their own neighborhood they were blind to, to neighbors left alone, to the mission field called home, the kingdom.
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In total agreement
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