Saturday Is For Asking Questions

Posted byChaplainmikePosted inQuestions

vvNOTE: A question appeared this evening about two Ky preachers. I made two factual errors in my answer. I have never met or heard the one I said I’d met and heard- completely thinking of someone else- and I said the other was dead, which was incorrect. Very bad error on my part, and my apologies to both and to the questioner. Easy to get mixed up when you’ve been out of circulation for 17+ years.

I’m done. Wow. Over 130 questions. Thanks to all who participated. This was great fun.

NOTE: Remember that you will see the “older comments” link at the bottom of the comments now.

277 thoughts on “Saturday Is For Asking Questions”

  1. Pingback: 25 Evangelical Myths « Chuck Mullis

  3. How long?

    a) We already have it in our institutions and missionary standards. It won’t come into the BFM. Not that kind of document.

    b) Never. Ever.

    c) None. Ever. Not in that language. Now saying we can’t base cooperation on teetotalism? I could see that being said at some point in the near future. To thunderous boos.

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  5. …..do you see a discrepancy in the level of esteem and reverence in which we hold God as compared to that of the early Christians and church “Fathers”…?

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  6. The errors of Calvinism in the past are there for anyone to see and read. Read Iain Murray’s books, esp Spurgeon and HyperCalvinism and his book on Wesley. Buy a humble Calvinism.

    All the good advice was at the conference, esp in Stetzer’s talk and Driscoll’s on idolatry. Lose the mentality of the conference and adopt a passion for seeing churches produce Kingdom disciples. Serve the cause of the Kingdom wherever God places you.

    Be mentored, not by mp3s, blogs and books, but by older members. Learn to love the older generation and not be seduced by the next big thing.

    Look at the humble and honest piety of true Christians whose names are unknown but whose light shines in the real world. Don’t imitate people who live on planes and conference stages. Imitate people who feed the hungry, preach to the poor and choose the road less travelled.

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  7. New Question

    How long will it be before

    a) the SBC adopts an official stance against beverage alcohol?

    b) we in the SBC wise up and stop forcing missionaries to take a teetotaler pledge?

    c) what young sbc leader do you forsee (if anyone) of just coming to the national stage and saying how insane our teetotaler position is?

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  8. You were at the Advance Conference, you’re familiar with the “Young, Restless, & Reformed” wave, you recognize great things going on here and have a few concerns as well.

    What advice do you most want to give to the young men and women in this movement? If you had their eyes and ears for an hour of preaching, what would be your message? How do you want this generation to grow and know about God? (And not just for the church planters/full-time ministers).

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  9. I agree with you, and that is the way I practice it, but if we do it that way are we really being honest with the BF&M.

    that was my main point

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  10. That’s all old covenant or covenants if you are a dispensationalist. All that came before Christ was fulfilled by Christ.

    The moral law and the ceremonial law are mixed together lots of places. That doesn’t mean they can’t be distinguished. Don’t consult the dead will be in the same chapter with don’t cut your sideburns.

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  11. Most Baptists just say if you are baptized you can commune. In their doctrine they wouldn’t consider infant baptism real baptism, but in practice I’ve seen very very few bring it up at a LS service. The Baptists I know are very open communion in practice, no matter what they believe.

    Landmarkism is a theory of Baptist origins. I don’t consider closed communionists to be Landmarkers. Landmarkers believe Jesus was a Baptist.

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  12. Thanks for the reply.

    I don’t really have a problem with the old covenant. I realize that Christ has fulfilled the sacrificial/dietary system. It’s the moral commands of the OT that I find sticky, and the one about sex and menstruation seems to be located in a list of moral commands (don’t sleep with your stepmom, another male, etc.). Also the command to Noah isn’t really part of the Old Covenenant. How do you approach the moral components of the Law? Noahic covenant?

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  13. My opinion of them as I experienced them in Western Ky is they didn’t consider me a Christian unless I was baptized by them and belonged to their church. That’s about as far as it goes with me.

    I know there are a lot of great CofC people and churches, but in West Ky, they were totally without any recognition of other Christians.

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  14. As to answer for one, should we then discourage folks present who have been baptized as infants from partaking, and if we do see the church as the keeper of the Table, then aren’t we succoming eventually to Landmarkism and closed communion?

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  15. What is your opinion on the people and theology of the “Church of Christ” (the mostly non-instrumental denomination)? Thanks.

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  16. You seem to have an issue with the old covenant. All old testament laws of that type were fulfilled by Jesus and no longer apply. The prohibition on eating meat with blood in Acts was a concession to Jewish Christians reluctant to change their habits. It was a pragmatic concession, as can be seen throughout Paul’s letters and especially Hebrews where all foods are declared clean.

    if you approach the Old Testament law as still in force for Christians, you need to read Galatians and Hebrews. The Law is shadow of Good things to come. They’ve come. No more priests. No more food laws. No more temple. No more sacrifices or Levitical piety. Only the moral law remains, and that as illuminated by the Gospel.

    You sound like you are involved in either Adventism or some form of Jewish/Christian combination. Find the counsel of a New Covenant believing pastor in these matters.

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  17. What do you think about blood in food? in sex? Weird question, I know, but the Bible seems to talk about this a lot. Blood in food was forbidden to Noah, prohibited in the law, and not allowed in the early church. The law prohibits having sex during menstruation, and the prohibition’s location among many other sexual prohibitions that we wouldn’t dream of disregarding seems to hint that it still applies. What do you think?

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  18. You preach the Gospel to everyone.

    I think you do several things:

    1. Jesus knew there were non-theists, and talked about the Father anyway.
    2. Remember that Romans 1 says they know God but suppress the knowledge. We speak with that in mind.
    3. We follow Peter’s advice and speak gently and with respect, including respecting non-belief. So we don’t approach arrogantly or with hostility. We are gently and to the point.
    4. Paul spoke to those who were skeptical of all Gods in Acts 17. Model his use of the human heart and the evidence in pop culture.
    5. Don’t debate or humiliate. Proclaim Good News. Sara Miles was converted by a silent communion. God the Spirit does the converting.

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  24. I’m in the amen corner. Portraying God the Father as a large black woman may shock people, but no more than when Jesus called God “Abba”. They got over it, or perhaps they were the ones who lynched him.

    I was talking with a friend about The Shack. He said that his own father had abandoned the family when he was little, and since then his image of fatherhood has always been negative. It’s no wonder that Young chose to portry the God the Father as a woman, perhaps to connect with many of the fatherless children in this country.

    “All things to all people in order to win some.”

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  26. The Indians are obviously cleaning house. Not just making adjustments. They won’t find a better pitcher than Lee, but they don’t plan to pay those $$. So if that’s the thing- cheap rookies- then that’s fine. Martinez is no loss. I wish them luck. A great franchise that really sucks these days.

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  28. We were desperate for 3rd base defense and some stick. Encarnacion has ben doomed for a long time. Way too many errors. A good bat, but inconsistent, and just doesn’t have any intensity. Zzzzzz all the time. Reds are pitching rich. Took on a lot of parole, but this was a very good move for the Reds. If Bruce comes back and we can get rid of Gonzo and get a decent SS, we will be good offensively. Then we need to get rid of at least two starters. Lots of changes needed.

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  29. I’ve blogged extensively on the Shack. You can find that in Recommendations and Reviews or by searching Shack or Young.

    The Shack is an allegory of Wm Young’s healing from the scars of sexual abuse as a young man. It’s a psychlogical work, not a theological one. I was deeply moved by the portrayal of God in the book. Since scripture sometimes describes God in feminine imagery and language, I was not offended.

    Young has been vilified by the theological police, meanwhile millions buy the book and all testify that finally they are reading about an experience with God that speaks to their own longings to love and be loved by God. Hello? Wake up someone. The cold dead God of many Christians is not the God of Jesus.

    Young’s book is full of theological mistakes and things I can’t affirm. Nonetheless, I get it: a story of loss and rediscovery of God. That’s why people love it. Not the theology of the Trinity.

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  30. There are only a couple in Ky, so I’m not really aware of them. I work with a CC couple, and they are wonderful Christians in every way. I am surprised how hard CSmith is on eschatology and anti-Calvinism. A bit overboard there. But the CC pastors I’ve met on the net have been great.

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  33. iMonk,

    How about putting together an mp3 CD of your first 100 podcasts, warts and all, so folks like me can catch up on what we missed? This would be super easy for you to automate (been there done that) and would give you an additional income stream. I know I’d buy it in a minute.

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  35. Have you read the popular Christian novel, The Shack? If so, do you agree with its portrayal of the Trinity, especially the gender aspect?

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  36. What do you think of the moves made by the Reds yesterday? Wise to give up two pitching prospects for a 35 year old third sacker with a history of injuries?

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  37. ……..2 part question please…(1).in light of this grueling Q & A marathon.. how much coke and potato chips have you consumed within the past 18 hours ?…and 2 ..do you prefer aspirin or acetomenophen ?

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  39. Worst ballpark… Yes, both Bobby and Barry did play in the Kingdome. There were two years of interleague play between the Giants and Mariners before Safeco was built that allowed Barry to play there. Good call 🙂 😛

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  41. Bigger question than I want to take on. I’m pretty reformed on T and P. More Arminian on U and I. I think L is a ridiculous question.

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  42. Hi Michael,

    Where do you agree and disagree with Arminianism soteriology? eg. Roger Olsen

    Thanks

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  43. I think most of us will want to have a home church or a base community. Whatever you want to call it. But that’s just pragmatism really. I think these days its good to say, at the foundation, I’m Baptist or I’m a part of this house church X or whatever. And its important to have a pastor. But if that means, as it does in most churches, church shaped discipleship, then be suspicious. How does that church allow you to be a Kingdom person? Does it matter whose meal for the homeless you work at? Does it matter whose inner city mission you lead worship for? Does it matter if you are “there every time the doors are open?”

    No I believe a geographic idea of church is very helpful, even if we still say “that’s the community where I was baptised, have a pastor, etc.”

    On 1/1/11 I will make and lose hundreds of friends in one day. It will be interesting.

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  44. I’ve learned more about you from these few short answers than anything else. Wonderful.
    Here’s mine: Context: I am a “area church” guy. Know you don’t know all I mean by that but I am curious how “area church” folks will relate to the local churches all around them. Especially in regards to valuing spiritual leaders from different churches etc.

    PS Can’t wait to see 1/1/11

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  45. 1. Absolutely. That’s not to say lightning will strike someone who does it otherwise, but I think it is the theologically logical order.

    2.Yes. The younger leaders are abandoning dispensationalism. Of course, dispensationalism is changing to accommodate a lot of reformed theology these days.

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  46. Two questions.

    1. Do you think Baptists are right to assert that baptism is a prerequisite to the Lord’s Supper?

    2. Do you think that we are beginning to see some relief in the takeover by Dispensational Premillinialism (I know misspelled)?

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  47. >Brandon, are you this long in youth ministry and still using those adjectives about methods? Not sure I can help you.

    I agree that those aren’t good adjectives to use. I couldn’t really think of what exactly to say, but I just want to get past indoctrinating them into good little Christians, because that’s what they’ve had their whole lives, and their older siblings/peers have now gone off to college or just stayed working around town and have rejected it all, or at least forgotten it all.

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  48. Wright says Jesus is the composer. Paul is a conductor. With Paul, you are reading the application of the Gospel to church planting and specific issues: inclusion of Gentiles esp.

    Don’t let a wrong view of scripture as flat rob you of the simple truth that Chrstianity is about the Jesus shaped Kingdom. There are doctrines and morals and problems. You can’t make it what you want. But Jesus and Paul aren’t two names for the same person.

    Jesus is the light that illumines scripture and the world. Paul is another Christian, though one God inspired to write essential scripture. Just keep it straight and passionately follow Jesus with all the apostles as a guide.

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  49. I have really been moved and tugged into re-considering the whole “Christian” faith in terms of it being much more about BEING Jesus in a world that needs to meet him, than it is about the rules and morality and doctrine. Without showing any disrespect to Scripture (because I prize it), could we say that most of CHristianity has become about following Paul and his theology than it is about following Jesus? Jesus certainly is documented as calling us to follow HIM. Seems to me much of CHristianity is about following Paul’s theology of CHrist. I see Scripture as saying itself that JESUS Himself is the WORD, and not necessarily the text. So do we follow JEsus, Paul, or the Bible? Which is the Savior and Lord? Certainly we need the Bible to show us Jesus and his words and acts, and perhaps Paul to put Jesus in theological perspective, but am I missing a boat or on the threshhold of heresy to suggest that we’ve been following the wrong trail for some time?

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  50. I don’t think my international students are much aware of Upwards, etc. I can say that the Christian experiences of my Ethiopians and Koreans do not include anything outside of worship and some Bible study, and the Koreans are very serious about that. Games, “fellowship” and recreation don’t connect up with church in their experiences.

    Any real effect? I’d have to hear what you mean. Do I think that serving people in Jesus name can have an effect? Yes. Does that mean the church is an entertainment and country club? No. Does it mean some Christians will be called to be involved with sports and arts, etc.? Yes, absolutely. But the “our church needs a gym to keep the kids” thing is not good. If you want to build a facility and use it to serve the city and its people who can’t afford to be in leagues, etc. that can be a good way to serve people.

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  51. Do your international students have opinions on the way some evangelical churches use an obsession with sports to get people to come to church? (This may not be an issue at an isolated rural campus). A few European/Chinese Christians I know find the whole Family Life Center craze extremely odd. Do you think this has any real effect for the Kingdom?

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  52. If my church can’t handle the evolution/creation discussion, I would not get fired over it. I’d nod a lot and slip some internet addresses to the truly curious.

    When you have more security, make the kids aware of the actual game score in the Christian world. Make sure they know that there are thousands of Christians who are scientists who accept evol and old earth. Be respectful to YEC because that kid needs that certainty. But I do not ever call it science. I mostly keep my mouth shut so I don’t get fired. It’s dynamite where I work.

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  53. >What would you suggest to evoke uplifting, perhaps life-changing conversation from teenagers, that would make the truth of the gospel stick?

    Brandon, are you this long in youth ministry and still using those adjectives about methods? Not sure I can help you.

    Faithful, loving, honest, consistent, on their level, relevant to their lives. Hear their stories. Teach to the real kid, not to some theological goal. Get to the most basic questions that all kids have and none ever ask? Deal with the objections of atheists. I show atheist stuff all the time to my students.

    Don’t hesitate to use stuff like Modern parables to generate some interest with a video generation. Lifeway stuff was terrible in my day.

    The minister here is you. The real curriculum is the lives, families, pain and actual experiences of your kids. The Gospel applies. Be bold in your honesty and vulnerability.

    peace

    ms

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  54. I thought of a better question than my last one…

    What would you say to a smart teenager who is absolutely obsessed with Creationism/combating evolution? Maybe even more than that, I have some teenagers in my youth group who, I can tell, are really beginning to doubt YEC, and I am afraid, because of their Sunday School teachers’ and the other pastors’ views on it, its going to lead them to doubt Christianity in general. How can I show them that they don’t have to believe in YEC to believe in Jesus without getting put on a hit list?

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  55. I’m a youth pastor at a small Baptist church in northern Manitoba. Before I came here, the youth group consisted of a weekly 2-hour slot of games and a 10 minute lifeway video. We through that out the window, got some flak about it, lost some youth, and then have been attempting ever since to actually teach them about the Gospel and Jesus and the Bible and living a life that is transformed by said things. We now have a weekly bible study and I don’t underestimate these kids’ ability to think–in other words, we get pretty deep.

    What would you suggest to evoke uplifting, perhaps life-changing conversation from teenagers, that would make the truth of the gospel stick?? (be it a specific book of the bible to study, another book to go through, a series of topics, whatever)

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  56. Well obviously not in just our country but I meant specifically in our country…

    Thank you for your response

    PS, I agree on the sabbath! Its Fulfilled!

    -Reid

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  57. It has magnificent strong points, but when applied in an “all or nothing” way that belittles all evidences and anyone else’s assertions, it can be really an exercise in arrogance. In certain kinds of debates, it’s priceless. In others, it needs to be used very judiciously or not at all.

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  58. What do you think about the presuppositional apologetic method that is sometimes popular amongst the Reformed?

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  59. Because thousands and thousands of young SBCers were starved for someone to take the Gospel seriously and call a stop to the circus we’d become. Thank God for SBC Calvinists making God serious and church mean something. We’d become a parody.

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  60. Haven’t read him.

    Sabbath keeping is Old Covenant. Fulfilled in Christ.

    Not looking for a reformation in “our country.”

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  63. How do you feel about the Theologian Augustus Toplady and his write up of John Wesley? And also do you disagree with Anti-Sabbatarianism? Finally, I think you would agree for a true reformation in our country by the power of His Spirit what is needed is pure un-adulterated biblical truth, with the biblical hermeneutic of Calvin and a Lutheran understanding of the God and man relationship with ones commitment to the other ( God to Man)- I am a personal fan of Kierkegaard because of how he describes one’s relation with the eternal based on the eternal capturing the finite.

    Thank you!

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  65. This goes to show that some Reformed don’t care how many crash their faith on the rocks of young earth creationism, etc. Sad.

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  66. Hockey is unknown in Ky. If you were interested, it was no where on TV till very recent cable offerings. I can’t see the puck. UK has a popular team.

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  68. Great answer Imonk. Romans 6-8 only make sense, to me, if you see the description Paul gives of himself as an accurate description of the human condition we all live in.

    tim

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  70. I never read a book that was as identical to my own views as Enns. I wrote many of the same things in essays here, like In God’s Kitchen.

    His firing shows the narrow minded scholarly bigotry that exists in some corners of Calvinism. Incredible.

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  71. I wrote about this a few weeks ago. I see most God’s will talk as hyper spiritualization and justification. I believe we make our best choices based on the big picture of truth and self-knowledge/providence and God works with us. Haven’t read the book. Have believed this for years.

    BTW, most spiritual abuse uses “God’s will” as a pretext. I always am cautious around that kind of talk.

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  73. I continue to note writers receiving/seeking God’s “will” for some aspect of their lives: who to marry, what school to attend, what job to take, etc.
    I wonder if you are familiar with Gary Friesen’s “Decision Making and the Will of God” in which he denies that God has a specific “plan” for each individual. His view is that we study, pray, and make the best decision we can.

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  78. I don’t consider the NPP to be anything close to a single perspective. Overall, I am very interested in recent scholarly developments in understanding the first century Jewish world. I tend to trust Wright et al more than Piper and Dunca in the scholarly arena. But I am concerned that there is some loss of gospel clarity at crucial points, and especially that a kind of creeping Catholicism gets into the mix. So I’m less interested in some of the Gospel applications by those scholars.

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  80. I’ve recently been reading NT Wright and was very impressed with Surprised by Hope. I need to do a bit more reading to really understand the New Perspective on Paul. What are your thoughts on NPP?

    Thanks!

    Brent

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  82. My son and daughter in law need to find a church community in Lex. They have one, but work schedules are not allowing participation. this is crucial.

    Pray for my marriage. It’s tough being in a divided situation, but God has been good.

    My employer could dismiss me at any moment. It’s a very fragile situation. Needs much prayer.

    I have great opportunities in ministry every day, esp with internationals.

    The finances of our ministry are a serious concern right now.

    I need a preacher and worship leader for meetings in Sept. Don’t have either and no money to pay travel.

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  87. WIthout large numbers of bivocational pastors, there church won’t be planted anywhere. If we insist on all pastors being full time employees of the congregation, the mission is over. Full time ministers are an aberration. I wish I had never heard of it.

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  90. Michael,

    Just interested – you said “Assist someone in starting one (or start one yourself if qualified)”. What’s your short definition of being “qualified” to start a church/fellowship?

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  91. What are your thoughts on a speaking elder also working in another occupational field? For instance, if a leading elder who also is the speaking elder (traditionally meaning the head shepherd of the church) also has a job that he works at like 30 hours a week because he needs to support his family. Should this be a big concern, even if the setting is a poor church plant? The reason I ask is I personally think it COULD be a problem due to the lack of time to study for teaching the Word and leading God’s church, and the dude would have to be a work horse to balance both. However, I also think that in this day and age in America we have this illusion that being a speaking elder/pastor means that is your “job”, which I think distorts the truth. We think of pastors today much the same way that people thought of monks back in the 15th century (hence Luther’s book, On Vocation), and I think this hurts our churches because some people who have been gifted in preaching/teaching are not answering the call because of this poor understanding of what ‘occupation’ means. Thoughts?

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  92. No, you should laugh at a guy so ignorant of Christians he thinks we’re all Young earthers. Hello. Like 2% there smart ass. Read the Catholic catechism before your next big movie.

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  94. This is the #1 question I get at IM. And of course I can’t answer it.

    But you can buy my book 1/1/11 🙂

    Vast numbers of Christians are in that situation. You do one of 4 things:

    1. Lower your standards and deal with what you have
    2. Create a diverse fellowship from more than one church
    3. Assist someone in starting one (or start one yourself if qualified)
    4. Go to a simple church of the poor and add yourself to building up an imperfect body of Christ.
    5. Find a non-traditional fellowship/community.

    Or drive a long way so you can keep acting like a consumer. Churches exist to produce disciples, not for us to feel guilty that we don’t attend one. Make the church better and deal with what’s there. Or be part of extending and planting a new one. Or explore the non-traditional side.

    God guide you. You are far from alone.

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  95. “They deeply believe in the importance of local church, but also know that there is no other suitable church in the area…” Quoted from Rob Grayson’s question. What do you do when you can’t find any suitable church. I know my husband and I are not called to start our own church (not unless the world wants Waco part II). Going to lunch with a YFC friend tomorrow who has similar issues. Maybe I can trick him into starting his own church. Idle hands are most definitely the Devil’s workshop.

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  96. All the time. That’s normal about any of life’s commitments. Marriage. Vocation. Etc. faith commitments aren’t free from wavering. It’s these idiot Christians who tell people that it’s a sin to feel like a normal human being who ought to be smacked.

    I believe. Help my unbelief. Best prayer in the Bible.

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  98. Buy my book 1/1/11

    I think that church is more geographic than congregational. That’s my basic deal, and with technology, maybe that even changes to tribes, networks, i dunno. Your “place” not your congregation is your mission center. And from there, the mission is always cross cultural. If diverse backgrounds help us see the Kingdom and church in the right relationship and approach discipleship with the full tool box of all traditions, good. Are denominations and their control more efficient in some ways? Yes. More coherent doctrinally? Yes, unfortunately. And you can see where that gets us missionally. I’m all for a diverse, geographically defined church exp with several different manifestations of “congregation” or community.

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  99. 5 fold ministry wasn’t emphasized in our tradition. I think most teaching I’ve heard on it was leadership trying to justify itself. Not Jesus-shaped.

    God gifts leaders for the church’s mission to produce Kingdom pursuing, Jesus shaped disciples who plant cross cultural churches. That’s what leadership does, no matter the name. Too much emphasis on that text hasn’t produced much good and a lot of abuse.

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  100. I’m still trying to collect Uncle Randy’s works, but they’re hard to get a hold of. “Return to Paradise” was the first completely honest thing I ever heard in the Christian tradition at the age of 16. It’s no exaggeration to say it changed my life.

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  101. An increasing number of Christians are being raised in denominationally diverse contexts, with friends, family, teachers, etc. from many different Christian traditions. This has shaped many people’s faith as a result (for better and for worse).

    While there is clear challenges to this (such as shallow appropriate of tradition out of trend or affinity), do you see value in Christians having such broad exposure? What are the ups and downs of it?

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  102. Do ever get the feeling that sometimes Christianity may be nothing more than some hoax and that all those years you believed and served it could have been spent doing better things?

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  104. Any thoughts on the relevancy of the 5-fold ministry and what are your thoughts on the use of spiritual gifts both in and out of the church settings?

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  105. iMonk- thanks for the words. I think that part of my struggle is that I have always felt like I had Godly counsel and wasn’t looking for butterflies and roses but I have never felt at peace or rest in the situations I feel like GOD is calling me into. Perhaps I am placing expectations on GOD that were never meant to be there.

    Mick- I have read “Under the Unpredictable Plant.” Peterson is one of the few Christian voices that I am able to hear these days. (and of course iMonk, too)

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  106. I’m a huge fan of Larry Norman. Stacks of his stuff around here. Randy Stonehill as well, from first album to the current one with Keaggy. Two geniuses. I have a major IM piece on Norman. I’m disappointed in his moral failures, but we are all sinners. Jesus people- no real impact on me aside from some pop culture invasion of the SBC when I was a teen. I wouldn’t be a Christian if my church hadn’t let me play bass guitar for a a happenin’ youth choir. Chuck Smith- dispensationalism. Not interested.

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  107. i opted to leave out the specific details in my question…but concrete complaints do exist in abundance…and many of the more knowledgeable members of the congregation (especially those skilled in audio, visual, music, computer tech) have brought these issues up to the elders repeatedly over the last year before leaving the church in exasperation… it’s difficult to make the elders understand why it’s so frustrating (they are not skilled in tech or music, either, but they are aware that they are not, and readily defer to those in the know, instead of constantly messing up the systems with clumsy attempts to prove that they can do it)….but our elders are approachable, and we do talk with them.

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  110. Well, the guy who said “sin boldly” isn’t Wesley, that’s for sure.

    Wesley believed in the possibility of perfect love. Luther would never use the word “perfect” about anything in Christian anthropology or experience.

    Calvin’s view of sanctification is about visible evidence that you are elect. “Make your election sure,” i.e. drive yourself to despair, imo.

    Luther says sinful people are given a perfect salvation by faith as a gift. Sanctification is totally rooted in the Gospel.

    I think Luther is weak on discipleship. My views on discipleship are in a 4 page article in the upcoming Modern Reformation magazine. Wesley’s type of discipleship processes, with Luther’s theology in the Gospel. That’s a good balance.

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  111. I actually think it is scary to long time Christians who’ve been taught about Scripture in such a way that would make such a possibility shocking. New Christians, one would think, would tend to accept it as face value.

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  112. Someone may listen to KLove, but my students have little to no interest in CCM. They know some P & W, but mostly from church/camps, etc.

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  114. Have you ever read “Under the Unpredictable Plant”? It’s by Euegene Peterson and may be helpful in your situation.

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  115. Sadly, I come across people all the time who believe that children (including all aborted children) go to Hell. You answer this line of question as best they can be. Thanks!

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  117. Lately, you’ve mentioned Luther’s impact on your understanding of how we are called to live out our sanctification. Could you help clarify how Luther sees living with our sinfulness and our sanctification as different from the Calvin camp or the Wesley camp?

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  118. I don’t know what trusting God’s voice means without…

    -Godly counsel
    -Acceptance that things don’t go well, work out or get “blessed” because I followed God’s voice. Jeremiah followed God’s voice into a well.
    The apostles followed God’s son to death.
    -Less confidence that I need to depend on experience and more freedom to be the person I believe God has created me to be.

    Brother, a million people went into “ministry” thinking it’s what God wanted. I can’t say in anyone’s case, but it’s obvious that a lot of people go into ministry wanting something like success and blessing and a great life now. It’s not happening. Jesus never said to expect anything except his version of success and persecutions…..and eternal life.

    I don’t know you so I can’t comment on your situation. Sorry.

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  119. It’s my life. It’s the life of an imperfect, fallen, broken man of faith living in a sinful world and sin addicted psyche/body.

    It also a man in whom the power of the Spirit has begun his promised work of making us like Jesus Christ. That work continues until glory.

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  120. trying for a 140 character question to lead to the question. Thought I was hearing GOD guide me into ministry. Every path in ministry I took felt like me being drug through the mud. I’ve got a semi full of church baggage. got married, trusting GOD’s voice that it was the path for me. Been very difficult.
    Question: I don’t know how to trust GOD’s voice anymore, do you have any suggestions for me?

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  121. What is your interpretation of Romans 7? Do you see it as a text describing the Christian life or the “before conversion” life? If the former, then what does that say about regeneration and sanctification?

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  122. Collapsing. Internet will kill off large portions of it. In ten years, half of them will be dead. Advertisers see the power of the net to get the niche market much more powerfully. Major ministries that were on the radio are already smelling the coffee. If I worked in radio, I’d prepare a resume.

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  123. I believe this because I believe the resurrection of Jesus is a fact of history that is convincing of who Jesus really is and what he means.

    Also because of my personal experience of God as he has showed me what it means to know him. All agree that Jesus is a great revelation of God. But when you look at the resurrection, you see he IS God, come to us in human form.

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  126. I agree that Mark is missing its original ending, but that can be found in Matthew. See Edwards commentary on Mark.

    We can’t hide the truth of textual criticism. Ehrman is getting in major hits on us because we have. The text isn’t the original. It’s copies with variables. No other way to see it.

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  127. 1. Don’t know Frank personally. Been very gracious to me. I consider him brother in Christ. I like Jesus Manifesto a lot. I love from Eternity to Here.

    2. I probably differ with Frank along the lines of Ben Witherington’s critique, but I much less a defender of the traditional church than BW. I think Frank’s model gets a lot of things right that are in the NT. I would disagree with him most regarding issues regarding leadership.

    3. I think organic church is an important way to see the Kingdom-church connection and I commend Frank for making Jesus’ movement what it really is- a movement, and not a club or a franchise.

    4. While I think his historical scholarship is sometimes flawed, I think much (not all) of his material in Pagan Christianity is on the money and is very helpful in getting over the idea that our current model of church is what Jesus had in mind.

    A good brother from my experience. Don’t know him personally.

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  128. Why do you believe this? Is it coming strictly from the Bible or from personal experiences and/or other literature as well?

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  129. Thanks I think your right. Reading the bible through the lens of Christ is the only way. When I fail to do this I find a God I can fear but not love.

    God Bless
    Steve in Toronto

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  130. No. It’s a valid reading of scripture. I personally think it has a flawed reading of Genesis 1-2 and the Gospel’s critique of culture, but not legalism. There are legalistic applications of complementarianism and egalitarianism.

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  131. If a church elders adopt the complementarian view as the “correct Biblical view” (Biblical Manhood/Womanhood), is that legalism?

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  132. Buy my book. 1/1/11.

    That’s exactly right. Church shaped spirituality doesn’t exist. Churches encourage and develop disciples, who are Kingdom pursuing, Jesus shaped missionaries.

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  133. Sorry to reply again in succession, but I’ve been re-reading your reply and the first two sentences keep jumping out at me. “Our discipleship is for the Kingdom. It does NOT take place in the church.” Why is it, then, that so many churches see one of their primary roles as being discipling? Or do you mean that discipling does not take place in the _institutional_ church?

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  134. Michael,

    Thanks. That’s kind of how I think too. But I’m speaking into a culture where that kind of paradigm of church is so far off-map that people either just don’t get it, or if they do get it, it’s just way too scary. And yes, that includes the people who have come to the edge of the map and discovered that the old map isn’t much to use to them any more anyway! Fear is a terrible thing.

    As regards your book, what?! You mean we’re going to have to wait until 2011?! Does the publishing cycle really take that long? I would have pre-ordered it already if it was available for pre-order. I assume it will be available here in Europe too?

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  137. Totally depends on the school and core content in the program. I did a 3 year M.Div and most of it was a waste of time. I’d get to the shortest, most intensive program I could, if I were going that route. I wish I had done a university MA in the humanities and simply apprenticed. At least half of my MDiv was filler, but SBTS wasn’t the same school it is today back in the early 80s.

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  138. I am part of the wider hope, and I think Christians should be huge optimists about the Kingdom. But I can’t avoid the clear teaching of scripture that not all will be in the Kingdom and some are in hell.

    Wider Hope is defined several ways. For me, it’s similar to the RC view: Histiorical knowledge of Jesus is not necessary to saving faith. See Abraham for details. Faith can respond to whatever amount of true revelation we have. That is not an endorsement of other religions btw. Just saying that Cornelius was not lost when Peter knocked on his door. Just didn’t know the name of Jesus yet.

    Watchbloggers, bring it on.

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  139. The victorious Christian life
    Biblical Principles make things work better
    Non-Christians are bad
    Jesus is all about church growth
    Well known pastors and preachers are telling the truth.

    I could go all day on that one.

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  140. Hmmm. He should. Will he? I don’t know. He’s not going about it wisely. There are two ways in: Writers votes and Vets Committee. I can’t see how he gets either today. But maybe he will find some humility and stop lying in a few years.

    BTW, I think Pete Rose will get into the Hall on the Vets committee soon.

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  141. I think the term simply means in reference to the social reality that is opposed to God, in contrast to the new community of the Kingdom. It is humanity opposed to God, in a general “outside the community” sense. It is a helpful way of thinking at points, but Christians have always gone too far with it. Paul in the Corinthians letters says “you can’t leave the world.” I assume some were trying to do so.

    I’d say that worldly is a descriptive. If someone is a “friend of the world,” they have an alliance with the world of unbelief that may be unwise. Sinful would depend on other factors.

    For example, it may or may not be wise of me to go to an R-rated movie that depicts lots of sin. But I don’t think you could say it is sin per se. I couldn’t be that specific at a distance. But there are questions to be asked.

    Separationism, however, is a Christian mistake if it comes to dominate our way of living. We are not to be separate but to have normal relationships, jobs, etc. At the same time, we need to exercise wisdom personally and corporately. It’s a narrow and subjective line.

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  143. Van Til is living in Florida and doesn’t write.We hope he is going to come back here to St. Sadies and resume his former job, but he’s apparently discovered that he’s a hit with the ladies.

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  144. Success as a writer after 8 years of blogging is rewarding.

    Being a helpful part of many person’s discovery of the Gospel is rewarding. Making new friends.

    Encouragement from others for what I do is rewarding.

    Being threatened with losing my job is aggravating. Being monitored by people looking to get me in trouble at my job is aggravating. People who want me to be way too involved in their personal lives is aggravating.

    Being asked questions that could be answered via Google is aggravating.

    Assuming I know about situations I am totally ignorant of is aggravating.

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  145. I talk to the elders and see if that’s a real problem or a personality conflict I am having. As you describe it, you don’t have much concrete to complain about. You need some less abstract complaints and something substantial and specific. But let the elders decide if his style of relating and working is damaging to the congregation.

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  146. I do not believe in Limited atonement as Calvinists teach it. That’s the main story.

    I also believe many Calvinists turn election as discussed in scripture into functional hyper Calvinism.

    Mostly, I don’t find Calvinism as interested in the Gospel as it is in the sovereignty of God.

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  147. I am a Reds “fan,” whatever that means. Sort of like being a fan of roadkill.

    I enjoy the Big Show, but the minors often have the most enjoyable experience of the game for a family. I love a cool evening at Louisville Slugger Field. But the competition and the story is never the same at the minors. Everyone want out of that league 🙂

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  148. God is incomprehensible and other apart from revelation. Jesus is the only revelation of God we have. This is a tension regarding scripture. For me, scripture is the verbal setting of the revelation in Jesus. Jesus IS inspiration and revelation. What I know of God is what I know of him.

    Now strictly speaking, I do know concepts, words, etc. But Jesus is the only dependable word I have on the ultimate meaning of these things. So I don’t look at God’s OT justice, for example. I look at his justice/mercy in Jesus. That is THE final Word that gives the others meaning.

    This is essential, otherwise, Christians drive themselves into despair with theology.

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  149. Being an adult parent is pretty challenging right now. Both my kids left the “plan” and married early. That was hard. But really, for me the hard part was that I did a terrible job balancing ministry and parenting when the kids were small. I was totally serving the church and into success at that level and ignored too much of my kid’s lives. The hardest part of being a parent is just dealing with my own failures as a human being. Thank God for his grace.

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  150. PEDs were not regulated for many years. I don’t consider that to be a major corruption issue. Once they were regulated, then it is extremely disappointing, but understandable. Athletes seek every advantage. It’s simply part of the history of the game now, and fans have to get over it. We don’t have to like it, but its part of baseball and on some level always will be. The difference between using PEDs and having Tommy John surgery is rather small in my view. Both are evolutions of the culture of the game that fans have to accept.

    Baseball has a purist mentality, which is charming. Not realistic though. Ty Cobb was a violent criminal. The Babe was an alchy. As were most of the Yankees in the 60s. Gambling was common. PEDs are as well. This is our world. Welcome to it.

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  151. 1) God isn’t calling you to go against the stated confession of your denomination.

    2) Find a tradition that allows women to be ordained and seek ordination there.

    3) Don’t create a situation in your head and make it into a real world idol. The confessions of various churches should be respected.

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  152. Buy my book. 1/1/11.

    Our discipleship is for the Kingdom. It does NOT take place in the church. The church is a resource and an encouragement. Parts of the Christian life take place in a community but there is no reason not to have a larger geographic sense of church, attend more than one, assist in planting one, start one, participate in a non-traditional one. I’d say this is your opportunity to stop acting like the sheep analogies in scripture mean that we’re just supposed to find a pasture and eat all the time. We are supposed to be cross cultural church planters and gosle communicators. Get into the wider Christian world. Meet more Christians. Have several spiritual bases. Don’t think like a consumer.

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  153. Hi Michael,

    Picture someone in a situation where they’ve been part of a particular church for a few years, very involved and committed, but have come to the point where the lack of grace, constant conflict, etc. have become a continuing source of strife, to the point of impacting their physical and emotional health and that of their loved ones. They deeply believe in the importance of local church, but also know that there is no other suitable church in the area – all the others are even more beset with worse problems. Right now the only thing keeping them part of their church is the fact that there’s nowhere else to go, so leaving would be like stepping into the wilderness.

    What advice would you give to this person?

    (By the way, this person isn’t me, though it more or less fits various people I know. I also realise that it’s hard to give a specific, valid answer without much more specific information. Just interested to know your overall stance on this kind of situation.)

    Rob

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  154. If you had a daughter who really wanted and felt “called” to become a minister or priest within her religious tradition, but that tradition did not allow women to become ministers or priests, what would you tell her?

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  157. I would worry a bit about the Wright’s book on Mark for a new Christian (although I loved it). His theory the part of the original text is missing is very unsettling. Its not that the conversation is bad it’s just not something I would want to expose a new Christian too.

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  161. I can see too many variables to give an answer. (and I won’t list them due to ickiness factors). I recommend a DIY test.

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  162. Do you ever fear that God is an incomprehensible other and that we are just kidding our self’s when attribute quality’s to him like love and justice. The words often seem to mean entirely different things when applied to God than if we were to attribute them to Human beings? I am thinking of concepts like original sin, limit atonement and the existence of horrible pain in this life and eternal suffering in the next.

    Peace
    Steve in Toronto

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  164. “Barthian”

    For those of us not nearly as far along in our reading and understanding as others, have you considered making up a cheat sheet (glossary) of terms like this for those of us who don’t know them?

    Of course I could see it as a source of attacks as folks show up to tell you how wrong you are about xyz.

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  165. “Pete Rose”

    Wow. It reveals you as a hard core baseball fan. Yet I have to feel you’d talk more about his later life.

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  166. Please don’t ban me forever for getting this wrong, but… are you a Reds fan?

    If so, I’m going to the Giants/Reds game next Friday night in SF. If you’re listening, maybe I can yell loud enough to be picked up by the crowd mike. 🙂

    Do you like minor league ball better than major league ball? Why/why not?

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  168. how do you deal, in a way that honors God, with a pastor who is not as intelligent as his congregation but thinks and acts like he is the smartest one present and the only one who knows anything of worth, and subsequently tries to do everything himself (regardless of his incompetency) instead of trusting in the skilled members of the congregation who sincerely wish to help and serve God & their church community?

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  171. Biblically, what does the term “wordly” mean? The reason I’m asking is because I’m in the middle of a discussion with friends about this, one point of view says that when the Bible says something is “worldly” it refers to something sinful, while the other point of view says, ‘no, something that isn’t sin can still be worldly in a Biblical sense.’ So I guess the real question we’re getting at is –

    is there ever a Scriptural basis for something being wrong for a Christian, not because it is sinful, but because it is worldly?

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  172. Monk,

    Will Barry Bonds make the Hall of Fame? Should he? Just for the record, I cheered him and his dad a million times, in both the best ballpark in the world–and the worst.

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  174. What do you think are the top 5 most prevading myths in Evangelicalism today? (btw dig the new site!)

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  175. On second thought, my first question might give fodder to a certain few watchbloggers. You won’t hurt my feelings if you mod it.

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  176. You commented that full Universalism is not orthodox Christianity, but any thoughts on the “wider hope”?

    Additionally, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

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  177. I’m considering enrolling in seminary or a Christian university with a masters program. I’m involved in cross-cultural outreach (my wife is Mexican, and we attend a Spanish-language church). Would you recommend an M.A. in Missions, followed by an M.Div., or just go straight for the M.Div., with a missions emphasis in my electives? I know the M.A. would get me an advanced degree quicker (36 hours). But I don’t want to just take that route for the quicker degree if I’ll have to start the hour counting all over for the M.Div. I’m 40 and would like to finish before retirement.

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  179. Our story has constant relevance. We don’t hear it the same way throughout life, and we shouldn’t retell it as if we haven’t heard it before. But we should live in it, throughout the year/years, and let it talk to us, shape us throughout life. It’s our air, water and food. It’s what the spirit uses. We do live in repetition according to the Bible. We have to find ways to make that natural and helpful, not tedious. Harder than many think. I love the rhythm of the Church year and the lectionary providing the Spirit’s soundtrack for life’s many changes.

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  180. Strongly consider if this is the right way to go. Go on some mission experiences to areas that would stretch you. Rural churches are difficult to pastor and break many pastors and destroy many ministry families. Consider church planting or being bi-vocational in an area that needs a pastor but cannot afford one.

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  181. Jesus taught spiritual growth by particular processes. Some individual. Some communal. It wasn’t a course, however. It was imitating him and going through experiences meant to teach about him and his mission. Much of it was reflecting on the presence of the Kingdom and the meaning of the person of Jesus. The key thing is to approach discipleship as Jesus did: a long term, communal, reflective process. For us, it will be centered in scripture and life/mission.

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  183. I preach in a series of some kind with a strategy we develop for what we want our students to hear. Since we are evangelistic in nature, we major on apologetics, basic gospel, basic Bible.

    If I were in a church I would use the lectionary, but would do occaisonal series as needed and through books in Ordinary time.

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  184. Thanks for answering both my questions, Michael.

    My church is forging ahead w/multi-site, but with live preaching. If you are going to do multi-site, I would think that making it local, with live preachers who know the area and its culture and their congregations – and can therefore speak to the issues that particular group of Christians are dealing with – is the best way to go.

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  187. Are you still committed to the value of lectionary preaching? If you were a preaching pastor would you do this? Do you do this in your ministry now?

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  188. I don’t believe we “have” to go to a denominational church to be a Christian. I know there are certain parts of the Christian’s life that must be done in community. It’s not for me to say what that community must be like exactly, but the fact is that the Christian life has a community aspect. Very foundational and very basic. Doesn’t need a megachurch or anything like that. God will, at different times in our journey, bring us to different kinds of communities. I would urge you to find a place that provides the basic encouragement and equipment for living the Christian life: teaching, prayer, missions, sacraments, ministry to one another. Maybe you will find something quite different in every way. Maybe you will help someone start something or you will start something yourself. But don’t turn the Christian life into indiviualism. It is a community. Jesus was very clear and the NT is even more clear.

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  192. There are some people who say that if you want to have your character transformed then „the love of God will take care of everything“ – and I like that idea very much. Then there are others who say that without spiritual formation and practice of spiritual disciplines your character will not be changed – I am thinking here about Dr. Willard – and I like his books too. Any thoughts on this? Thanks very much, and thanks very much for your blog!

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  193. ….imonk..we know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God..but now that we have come to the knowledge of God and enjoy full communion with Him and are indwelled by the Holy Spirit why the need to keep rehashing the scriptures?

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  194. What advice would you offer to a young Bible College Graduate who feels called to go into ministry in a Small Rural Church and has started looking for one?

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  195. Thanks! Yeah, Romans was what popped into my head as soon as you mentioned the idea on the other thread. I’ll try to get a look at some of the authors you’ve mentioned.

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  197. Just a side note that the statement would more correctly be “where Western paedobaptists put confirmation.” The Orthodox baptize, chrismate, and communion infants all during the same service. (Chrismation is what became Confirmation in the West.)

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  198. Oh! No fair! I was actually waiting till midnight to post my question.

    Well anyways, since 2004 God has been slowly showing me what grace is and I slowly began to realize that most churches don’t preach it (none it seems in my area – South Florida). So to make a short story long, my husband and I stopped going to church a few months ago. We just got fed up with all the guilt and manipulation and lack of grace being taught at church. Now we are not sure what to do. Not sure if we made the right decision. The biggest plus is that now for the first time in 20 years I get to sleep in on Sunday morning which is kinda nice.

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  200. Roy,

    I really can’t, other than to tell you to explore basic Christian theology on the place of morality in relation to the Gospel. Any books by Eugene Peterson, Micharel Horton, Jerry Bridges or Paul Zahl. it’s the Biblcial view of sin as taught all over, esp in Galatians and Romans.

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  201. Wherever my gifts would be useful for the task of supporting the church planting movement Jesus began. I assume that would be somewhere teaching basic Bible. I’m not the missioanry type, so someone else would have to evaluate and make that decision.

    I’m on the mission field now, doing my part for the Kingdom, here in SE Ky.

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  202. Great question. Because I believe the God who is the answer to my existence has invited me to know him forever as he has revealed himself exclusively in Jesus. To know Jesus is to know God. Jesus reveals the God who is there.

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  203. Earlier today (or probably yesterday by the time I finish typing this with my 2 index fingers) in the comment thread attached to the interview with Dr. Tarico you said: “…[I] would put the blame for shifting the discussion to morality firmly at the feet of Christians, who have spent centuries saying that no one but themselves could be truly moral. Of course, the Gospel refutes that completely.” I would really like to explore the idea of the Gospel refuting moral exclusivity. Can you point me in the general direction of verses that discuss this? Thanks!

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  209. I agree completely. It is a very hard matter. But here in the states. SBC churches baptize 3 and 4 year old routinely. That’s completely at odds with what we believe about the nature of the church. For our tradition, conversion is the sovereign work of God and a child can have faith, but baptism and the LS are prerequisites to church membership and discipline. Again. we don’t do confirmation. For us it is an adult culture in the church.

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  210. I believe a shared Christian faith is an essential, but I don’t believe that passage is primarily about marriage. It may have an extended application to marriage. The NT never considers that Christians would choose to marry a non-Christian, but are told to remain with unbelievers in a marriage before conversion.

    I consider it the highest level on incompatibility, and I won’t marry couples if they are not both Christians.

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  211. As I said, not orthodox Christianity. Beyond that, take your pick of any major Christian essential. They would deny it as orthodox Christianity understands it.

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  212. Depends on the reformed denomination and the moral failure. I’d say with compassion and a desire to see person and family restored to wholeness, but it would be the end of all ministry. No doubt.

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  213. I realize that – I am a European Baptist 🙂

    I guess what I am getting at is this: it makes sense to have a minimum age for the assumption of adult membership responsibility, akin to confirmation or bar mitzvah. But assuming that age is 12, does it make sense to tell an 8 year old who has made a serious faith committment that no, you cannot be baptized for another 4 years? Is the connection between baptism and formal congregational membership really as clear in Scripture as we Baptists make it out to be?

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  215. Do you have an opinion on whether or not Christians should only marry other Christians? Is the “unequally yoked” verse about this or is that particular interpretation twisted and/or blown out of proportion(perhaps by to try and control teens and their raging hormonnes)? Should someone’s Christian faith be the highest priority in evaluating a potential mate, or are other things more imporant?

    Nate

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  217. How would the reformed folks react to the moral failure of one of their leading lights? Disallusionment? Kick him to the curb? Eat a bit of crow? Retweet whatever Mark dever says about it?

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  218. Doesn’t this response presuppose the identity of the pastor and preacher, something certainly a given in our culture but not biblically mandated? Wouldn’t such a model of multiple geographically separated campuses presuppose the presence of pastoral ministers in each campus, in addition to the preacher/teacher? And if that is so, would that alleviate some of your concerns?

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  223. Loaded question. I can’t generalize about individuals. Christians are neither unitarians nor universalists, so I don’t consider them to be orthodox Christians. I’m happy for those who have found it meaningful, but I don’t want to comment on UU as a group. I really only know a few.

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  224. I think if you check with European Baptist practice, it is 13-16. Spurgeon said 12 I believe. I’d have to think on that one.

    You have to realize that you can’t bring a paedobaptist understanding and apply it to us Baptists. We view children as our children and to be raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, but we put baptism and full church membership where paedobaptists put confirmation.

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  226. You said churches should set a minimum age for membership. What do you considet am appropriate minimum age, and does that imply that people below that age should not be baptized?

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  229. I think it’s a very effective model of church extension, but can be a very bad model of pastoral ministry. I don’t think it’s what Jesus had in mind as leadership, but I think the passion to communicate is sincere. I couldn’t do it and I wouldn’t recommend it, but I have no issue with those who find it meaningful.

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  230. Mixed bag. I liked the Call, The Alarm, U2, Simple Minds, Peter Gabriel, that whole thing, but that was about it. Bad time for acoustic music.

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  233. When you hear about churches that open up multiple sites, and have the preaching done via video by a preacher who (depending on the church) lives in the area or out of state, are you cool with that or greatly concerned? And why?

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  236. No one has asked me anything that the people who monitor my blog for various entities will find the least bit useful. Good job.

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  237. I’m not all that concerned about their reading at this point. I want relationships and conversations. Lots of questions. Lots of out of the building stuff in people’s lives. Meals. Visits. Games. Prayer. Worship.

    if he reads, I’d say The Call by Os Guinness is very important. Jesus I never Knew by Yancey. The God I Love by Tada. Everyone’s Guide to Mark by Wright. Gospel for Real Life by Jerry Bridges. Something else by Yancey, maybe on suffering or prayer.

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  239. Who determines what is strictly historical? How many historians differ on major aspects of the meaning of the term “historical?” It’s giving science the final vote on meaning.

    Christianity is a historical faith, but the Bible isn’t a scientifically historical book. How do we ever know that David killed Goliath “historically?” Hold out for the autopsy?

    It’s not just a story. It’s a true story, and the author of the meaning of truth is its author. It is what it is, not what we say it is.

    These things “really” happened, but not because of anyone’s vote for verification.

    This is the route the Creationist takes. In my view, it ends in despair.

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  240. You have a new adult convert to Christianity. What’s the first 5-6 books you have him/her read?

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  241. I agree with that – but the narrative of Christianity seems to lose it’s meaning if it’s not strictly historical, no? At least I was raised being told “Christianity is a historical faith – these things in the OT happened, they teach us XYZ about who God is and who we are and God’s plan for the world” so I’d like them to be real and not just story…really really really would like that. I wonder about how to pass on a faith to my children that can’t say ‘these things really happened’.

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  243. Fair enough. I just wondered what you believed on this.

    I don’t tell anybody that babies automatically go to heaven. I just say that I don’t know and trust in the character of God. I would venture to say that the baby HAS TO somehow be regenerated… because otherwise the logical consequence is that there would be unbelievers in heaven. I’ve yet to hear what I feel is an adequate response to this. Infant baptism just makes more sense to me… and I scoffed at the idea for years. It’s a complicated topic for sure.

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  244. Accuracy?

    I don’t measure scripture by anyone’s standards of accuracy. I allow scripture to be exactly what God designed it to be in the form and time and language he choose. I have no interest in verifying its “accuracy” beyond its own testimony to being God’s word to us.

    I’m pretty much a Barthian on those issues.

    It’s not a scientifically accurate text. It’s a narrative of salvation and revelation.

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  245. Don’t want to seem to belittle this question, but it’s a bit out of the league of this q and a.

    Is there any group of Christians that do not believe the infant goes to heaven? I’m not aware of any unless they are some weirdo hyper predestination Calvinists, but I’ve never heard that defended or advocated.

    Even the Pope clarified the RC view on “limbo” to basically eliminate it.

    I can’t adequately answer why infants go to heaven in this space, but every group I know of, no matter their view on baptism, would answer this the same way. And if someone has access to the “age of accountability” they should tell the rest of us what it is.

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  246. How do you wrestle with issues of Old Testament accuracy and what that means for Christianity’s narrative? (Moses, etc…) I keep getting tripped up there and stuck there.

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  247. Sorry. I don’t understand your answer. Can you elaborate?

    Where does a 6 month old of Christian parents go if she dies? Why?

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  248. Abraham, not baptized babies, is the New testament model for all questions of faith.

    Regeneration is not discussed instrumentally in the NT apart from the word of the Gospel. “Washing of the word” is a text both credos and paedos use, emphasizing different views of whether water is a symbol or an instrument.

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  250. I’m not listening but…

    Some guy on Will and Grace says the 10 dollar words line
    Belushi has 7 years of college in Animal House
    The mom on 70’s show has the sinner children quote
    Tom Hanks in league of their own says no crying in baseball
    Some guy in the Simpson’s has the Moose line

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  251. If you reject infant baptism AND age of accountability, how are young children regenerated and “saved”?

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  253. What are the movie sources for all the clips at the beginning of the Internet Monk Radio Podcast?

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  256. The suffering here is profound. My commentary on it would be a trivial addition to such prose. Some things are best left unsaid. We should learn from the example of Jobs friends, whom God said sinned by running their mouths about suffering.

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  258. I consider the age of accountability to be a bit of useful mythology, and nothing more. Credo churches should set a minimum age for church membership and let God sort it out beyond that.

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  261. I am coming from a paedobaptist perspective but I do not think an “age of accountability” is required for the credobaptist position. Whats your take on this?

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  262. I’m going to deal with alive, to narrow it down.

    Robert Capon if he’s still around.
    Everett Ferguson.
    Pete Rose
    Harrison Ford
    Gordon Lightfoot

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  264. No next to nothing. I’m impressed by the Sydney Anglicans as I have heard them. I use 2 Ways to Live as the primary evangelism took in my ministry.

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  265. If you could invite any five individuals, dead or alive, to join you for a dinner party, who would you invite, and why?

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  266. I think you make a very important point.

    We have two kinds of literature about Paul: his own letters and Luke’s history of the early church. Paul is very self-deprecating in several of his letters and is clear that he’s not perfect. “Chief of sinners.” Thorn in flesh to restrain his ego. Romans 7 etc.

    Acts is more hagiographical. No doubt.

    Peter’s flaws are, on the other hand, an essential part of his “witness.” His fallenness and struggles, his betrayals and thickness all provide the canvas for the entire church to see their weakness and the need of every disciple for grace, grace and grace.

    Both men are just men, but their differing presentations serve purposes in the text.

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  267. When Professor David Opderbeck posts this story on his blog:

    “Garret’s arms twist at sharp angles. His eyes, vacant and unfocused, stare fixedly away into a void, veiled windows to a soul suddenly plunged into primordial darkness. His brain fires primeval charges summoned from deep within the tohu wa bohu, his body tensing and releasing with their staccato rhythm. Slowly the seizure subsides and he comes back, my little boy again inhabiting the body that betrayed him.

    Nothing messes with your theology more than your own child’s disability. My boy has “epilepsy and apraxia of speech”: a diagnosis that tells me what I already know, that he has seizures and can’t process language. We communicate with some halting words, some signs, some pantomime. We medicate and wonder when the seizures will strike again, if they will ever cease.

    In the dark watches of the night my soul cries out to the Lord: If he “cannot hear, how can the preacher share the good news with him,” to follow up on St. Paul’s vexing question in Romans 10? What is “faith” for a boy with a miswired brain? What is “hope” for the man whose heritage is shattered by rogue synaptic currents no one can control or predict?

    Jaideep’s arms twist at sharp angles. His eyes, vacant and unfocused, stare fixedly into a void. His brain fires its last chaotic charge, the death rattle shuddering to a stop. Born on the trash heaps of Mumbai, dysentery and malnutrition absorb him into their hoary embrace. He lived and died a Hindu without hearing of the carpenter from Nazareth. Where were faith, hope and love for this eikon of God? Is he any less precious than my epileptic apraxic boy?

    God of the mucky stable afterbirth, bearer of sharp-glassed leather on bare back, wearer of spit and thorns, whose arms were twisted at sharp angles fastened with nails, abandoned, god-forsaken Son with agonized cry for eternal perichoretic dance interrupted by Death’s convulsions: how will you redeem this suffering? Do you hear Garret and Jaideep’s cries?”

    …what should the christian response and stance be toward Jaideep’s life and death? Toward Opderbeck’s son?

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  269. Not an easy question. I love the mythic quality in the The Natural, but I have to say Bull Durham probably captures the many different aspects of the game and its mysterious hold over fans and players better than any other film.

    There are days when Major League I is hard to beat though 🙂

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  270. In the NT Peter comes off as a bit of a screwup who loses a debate to Paul and learns about ignoring ritual purity at the house of a Gentile (as I recall). He betrays Jesus, puts foot in mouth, and basically only kicks butt on Pentecost, then disappears early in Acts. Paul, meanwhile, despite describing himself as sinful, is never apologetic, is always right in his theology, and is always assured that he’s doing right. Did we get a biased picture courtesy of Paul’s more learned and literate associates?

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  271. 1. This simply comes down to the one major issue we always are talking about: God. If there is a God who has revealed himself in Jesus- and that is our presupposition and message- then we really don’t have a lot of choice about how we relate to the philosophical flavor of the day. And we can’t expend a lot of energy trying to make categories reasonable so that the idea of God fits. We simply say “This is the foundation of our faith: The Trinitarian God, and here are the categories that flow from that.” So all these categories comport with God and God is our great topic. At that point, I’d suggest you won’t do better than Keller’s book.

    2. I think worldview analysis and shorthand philosophy is of limited usefulness. Evangelicals are enamored with postmodernism, meanwhile philosophers are saying its a stale and passe’ theory. We can’t make our response to our culture oblivious to these things, but I don’t know of a single instance where they are determinative. The human heart hungers for love, significance and relationships in every age and culture. The first century Christians didn’t do much philosophical analysis. We need to create communities of love, service and clear, simple Gospel communication. The changing philosophical tides are secondary.

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  272. Absolutely. I do a chart with my students where I divide the Bible into Mountains, hills, the plains and the wilderness. the mountains are the high points of the story of the Gospel. The hills are important and highly applicable, but not as essential. The plains are instructive and interesting. The wilderness has long stretches that only provide the background or larger context of the story.

    So I don’t believe the history of the divided Kingdom preaches like the story of Abraham. It all needs to be put in context. The Bible’s usefulness isn’t “flat.” There is definitely a varied terrain.

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  273. Without a doubt the New Calvinists are much more focused on soteriology only, rather than seeking to implement a fully formed reformed version of Christianity. Many of the new Calvinists have little idea what Calvinism represents more than what they’ve heard from Piper or Sproul. Many of the new Calvinists are Baptistic, of course, which makes that difference understandable.

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  274. Are there parts of the Bible from which you find it hard to preach? For example, I’m reading through Isaiah now and keep thinking what could I preach from this?

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  276. I have two questions:

    1) In a culture which increasingly denies the existance of sin and guilt what is the role of the Gospel?

    2) Post-modernism is becoming the dominant worldview in our culture. In your opinion is this good or bad and what ought to be the churches response?

    Thanks.

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  277. What is there one significant difference between Old Calvinists and the New Calvinists? If so, what?

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