Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
Jesus is the constant mediator. Jesus is the constant advocate.
Satan is the constant accuser.
The law of God also accuses our conscience. And the grace of God in the Gospel, Jesus himself, answers the law’s thunderings.
Satan has plenty to work with in the law, and in my life and yours. It is no wonder he accuses us “day and night” before God.
Have you thought what the devil would do if he took to the pulpit of a church?
Of course, there are dozens of possible manifestations of his schemes we could imagine in the pulpit. (Ephesians 6:11, II Corinthians 2:11) It would make an interesting series of messages.
But if Satan were true to his nature, he would be the “accuser” of the family of God.
He would accuse us of not being the children of God; of not being worthy or righteous; of having no right to call upon the Lord and no hope of standing before him in judgment. If he followed the script in the book of Job, he would say God has bribed us, and that we are really nothing more than self-centered mercenaries. If he followed the script he used with Jesus (and Adam/Eve), he would question what God had said and explore our doubts that God is worthy of trust and obedience.
In the end, he would accuse us of not loving God as we should, of loving other things more than God, of being false professors, of needing to examine ourselves to see what sin and hypocrisy are in us.
He would torment us with our inadequacies, torture us with our disobedience and trounce us with our sins.
Satan would, if true to his nature, revel in announcing that we are unjust, unholy, unloving, ungracious, uncaring, unworthy in every way.
But wait……
Doesn’t that sound a lot like the message many Christians hear all the time? From….other Christians?
Examine yourselves and see what fruit you see. A-ha! Not enough.
Look at your record this week. The prayerlessness. The sloth and the disobedience. How dare you call yourself a Christian. (Sound familiar?)
Here’s bound to be a Satanic favorite: What do you love more than God? Do you love ANYTHING or ANYONE more than God? Your family? Your children? Didn’t Jesus even say “if you love anything more than me- even family- you aren’t worthy of me?”
Didn’t God say give him first place in everything? All the time? Do you give God first place? In everything? All the time?
What do you take more joy in than God? Annnnything? Anyone? Does anything ever make you more happy than your salvation?
Why aren’t you happier and more joyous in church right now than you are any time of the week? Look at you at that football game…cheering for your team. You aren’t 10% that excited in the house of God.
Look how dull and insensitive you are to holy things. How much have you prayed? Or even wanted to pray? How much time have you spent with God this week? Was it more time than you spent in meaningless worldly pursuits?
When God looks at you, just think what he sees. Think of all the vile and dirty thoughts, the petty selfish thoughts, the unholy thoughts and feelings that have filled you this week. And then you come into the house of God, sitting there like you are a Christian.
Just who do you think you are? You are an embarrassment to God and the church. Only if you repent, and show your repentance by brokenness, is there any hope that God can change you from what you are to what he desires for you to be.
OK. Thanks Satan. Fine sermon. And yes, I know all those lines not because I have access to the devil’s sermon notebook, but because I know what Gospel-less preaching sounds like.
I remember several years ago a young preacher came to our school and literally was shouting this stuff from the moment he entered the door. He went after everything: music, drinking, porn, sleeping in church, not having Bibles, modesty, purity and on and on. He had the room full of students shaking in their shoes in 15 minutes. He then commanded everyone down to the altar to get saved, or resaved or really repentant or whatever it took.
He was violent in his methods, cruel in his message and utterly GOSPEL-LESS in his ministry. Of course, he’s a successful full-time evangelist these days. A lot of people love the devil’s sermons.
I want you to imagine the sheep who grow up with this, whether it’s in church, in their home or in some ministry group. These will be beaten, cowering sheep. Or they will be sheep who run away, and good for them in doing so.
They are sheep who only know the Good Shepherd as the lesser of two evils; the enforcer of the devil’s accusations.
When Satan would engage Luther with this kind of inner voice, Luther would say, “Let’s write it all down. All of my sins. And then at then end, write, PAID FOR, by the blood of Jesus Christ.”
The Holy Spirit convicts. Satan revels in torment of the conscience. The Spirit exposes our need of Christ. The accuser comes up with various comparisons and tests to brutalize us with personal applications of the law. (“If God said I can only save the world if one of your children is damned forever, would you still love God?”)
Jesus gives us the truth. Satan distorts the truth so that the Gospel is lost in the noise. Christ wants to bring the wandering sheep home. Satan wants the sheep to despair and jump off the cliff.
The Gospel is news that is too good for accusers. The law is exact and in the hand of the enemy of our souls, it is a brutal, soul-killing weapon. In the hands of the Spirit, it is a schoolmaster that leads us to Christ. Leads. Not beats us to despair.
So this week, you may want to say. “You know pastor, I think I heard that sermon before. I believe I know where you got it.”
The Internet Monk Archives 
Something caught my eye in this sermon. “Christ wants to bring the wandering sheep home.”
This is not clear gospel, for if Christ or God ‘want’ to do something, what is withholding? Is not God’s will done?
Both Law and Gospel must be preached clearly, each in its own office, for not all hearers are cognizant of their sinfulness. “By the law is the knowledge of sin…I had not known lust except the law said, Thou shalt not covet.” The purpose of the law is to reveal that not only the putting of our hand to sin is condemning, but rather the wrong desires within, whether or not acted upon, are condemning. Jesus said many things proceed out of the heart, including evil thoughts and said, “These are the things which defile a man.” The law is a hard word, for God said, “Is not my word like a hammer which breaketh the rock in pieces?” It can only reveal sin and the resulting eternal death due us, and leave us there under the judgment of God. The law offers no hope or remedy, but shuts Heaven against the sinner.
The Gospel, on the other hand, reveals not what God wants to do, but what He has in fact done for us, the condemned sinner, through His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus does not only ‘want’ to gather the lost sheep, but has in fact come to “Seek and to save that which was lost”. He has in fact accomplished His mission. Jesus has sought the sinner, In a dark and cloudy day, by a bloody path which leads from Gethsemane unto the Cross of Calvary. He joyfully endured the eternal judgment which was rightfully ours, and in doing so has brought us forgiveness of all sins. His shed blood cleans us every whit, and with His stripes we are healed. It is not that He ‘wants’ to clean us, and ‘wants’ to heal us, but that we ‘are’, even now, cleansed and healed by faith in this gospel.
What kind of sheep do we find in the fold of Jesus? Ez 34 describes them as, “Diseased, sick, broken, driven away, and lost.” Yet of such Jesus says, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” This is the gospel, which closes the gate of hell and opens the gate of heaven unto the sinner. It is not about what God ‘wants’ to do, but it is all about what He will do, has done, and has given unto us for the sake of His Son. We pray, “Thy will be done”, for God’s will is accomplished and is not left wanting.
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Thank you for this message. This whole week i’ve been feeling so down, so much in despair. I felt so utterly in despair about the sins I have committed after I became a Christian. I love the Lord and want to serve Him, but I feel so unworthy. I feel that I won’t bear it to stand before Him on Judgement day. But I do not want to stand before Him in fear and shame and trembling. I so desire to stand before Him in joy and peace and happiness!
Your message has given me hope. Perhaps the Lord will forgive me and give me mercy, even if I do not deserve His forgiveness.
Thank you again.
May the Lord bless you, and may the Lord be merciful to me and thousands of others who might be in my situation.
Roy
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Amen Paul. Context rules. Scripture is often taken out of context to prove some doctrine that is not even there and the same applies to people. Clearly a pastor who gives a sermon like Jonathon Edwards did (sinners in the hands of an angry God) will be vilified by the purpose driven crowd. I mean isn’t the goal of the church to get happy folks packed into the church on Sunday so we can collect the tithes and offerings? The Bigger the better right? The pendulum is always swinging. We hear the complaints that the church is not doing enough. That the people are not sold out to Christ. They are not acting Righteous. And then we complain they are not loving and tolerant enough. That the church needs to be accepting and not judgmental about anything. “I would rather that you be hot or cold.” I disagree with RonP below. Most preachers don’t do #2. Most sermons don’t even have the gospel in them. Most sermons don’t mention the cross, the shed blood, the resurrection, or the return of Christ. [Mod edit]
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What kind of sermon would Jesus preach if He showed up Sunday morning as the guest speaker at First Church of Whatever? Judging from His teachings, sermons, and conversations in scripture, I would guess that He would:
1. Proclaim what is good and true as good and true (the Kingdom).
2. Identify sin and evil as what they are (without compromises or apologies).
3. Offer forgiveness of sin and evil to any who seek it.
4. Invite anyone who wants to come follow Him in the pursuit of what is good and true.
Like you pointed out, imonk, most preachers lay real heavy on number 2 and then slip in some number 3 just before the alter call. But without number 1 and number 4, number two becomes a brutal instrument of condemnation and hopelessness, while number three becomes little more than the preacher offering to stop verbally abusing the congregation (at least until next Sunday) if enough of them cry “uncle” and submit to the alter call.
As I see it, Jesus offers good news to repentant sinners and bad news to those who refuse to repent or don’t think they need to. I think Satan (and far too many clergymen) are in the business of either delivering bad news when good news is needed or ear candy when bitter herbs are in order.
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Very Lewis-esque observation, Curtis. Self-centeredness is such a subtle weapon in Satan’t arsenal.
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Hey Guys—absolutely fascinating discussion. Thanks! One thing: Check out more on P. Washer. he’s so far removed from hell fire and brimstone and the caricature of him above is way off base. I happen to have met him and he’s preached in our church and I can say he’s nothing like the manipulative, flesh focused condemner he seems to be painted as above. I’ll assume the reference to the #1 YT video is the sermon to the SBC youth. Don’t forget the context there. He was preaching to a very specific audience and was trying to shake them up and help them realize that all their cute little mission trips, ice cream eating contests and baseball game outings with the youth group don’t assure them of anything salvific. He then went on to present the Gospel clearly and call them to repentance. I wholeheartedly agree that this could not be the regular diet for a local church, but he only recently has become a local church Pastor after having been a traveling evangelist/speaker for years. Just wanted to add some context, that’s all. Not trying to say he’s perfect, just round out what looks to be an unbalanced criticism of him above.
iMonk—thank you for this blog, it’s fantastic. I heard about you on the Paul Edward’s program out of Detroit. Praise the Lord!
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“WHAT YOU SEE… IS WHAT YOU GET!”
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Still better than that one flake “Spiritual Warfare” demand to start VOMITING up the Demons…
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The danger of this kind of teaching is that it results in people giving up on their relationship with Christ. Ultimately, the gospel message is that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and defeat of death has cancelled our sin and justified us before God, which allows us to have fellowship with Him. A focus on the law without a gospel application leaves the believer thinking they have to clean themselves up before they can go to God in prayer and worship. The believer turns inward, attempting to improve themselves so that they can stand clean before God, not realizing that 1) it is the blood of Christ only that allows them to stand clean before God, and 2) it is only through an actual relationship with God that any moral progress can be made in the first place. It turns into a cycle of trying to pursue a relationship with God, failing to live up to His standards, feeling guilty, and giving up on the relationship b/c we’re not worthy. The cycle eventually ends with the believer giving up on the relationship and either going through religious motions to continue the appearance of an active spiritual life, or giving up on religion altogether. At least this was how it all played out in my life until I came to a complete undersanding of the gospel, beyond just that it “saved me” when I was 11 years old. The gospel allows me to stand righteous before God regardless of the sins in which I am entwined. It is up to Him to make me a better, more obedient, more faithful, more repentant person.
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Thanks Eaton. Just to be clear, I didn’t misunderstand or disagree with Michael’s point. I was simply pointing out how the twin deceptions the enemy uses are just that, twins that can deceive us at either extreme. It was simply an aside, not a correction or disagreement.
Actually, I think context can reflect which extreme is likely to emerge. I grew up in the extreme that Michael addresses, while I now find myself in a place where the other is more prevalent.
Peace,
Jamie
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Imonk, woke up with the verse, “For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
You are right when speaking of the cross, the word “kill” is not used. “Put to death” is better. However, it’s also true, i think, that the Law (nomos, torah) does not “kill.” The “letter” (gramma) kills. “Sin” also kills. Death enters.
Therefore while condemning the preaching of condemnation according to the flesh, don’t you think we must also uphold the preaching of the judgment now and to come, on account of sin, as an essential part of the gospel?
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I find Washer’s stuff to be pretty much the most brutal and despairing sermons I’ve listened to recently. Destroys assurance in every message.
Sure that’s not deliberate? Hammer away at any assurance they might have had until it’s all in ruins, then make the Altar Call so they can really really really get really really really saved this time. (And get the big spectacular Altar Call crowd with much crying and weeping and gnashing of teeth. Real power trip for the preacher-man, plus a LOT of sales figures for brownie points at the Bema.)
I’ve seen similar one-on-one tactics in use to break down assurance so the breaker/evangelist can Save Another Soul (i.e. put another notch on his Bible). There it was an infinite-regression tactic called “The Ressegue Regression”:
1) Evangelist asks the mark “Are You Saved?”
2) If mark says “Yes”, start the high-pressure with “But how do you KNOW you’re Really Saved?”
3) No matter what the mark answers, throw his reason back at him with “But how do you KNOW you’re Really Fill-in-the-Blank?”
4) Repeat (3) in an infinite regression until the mark is beaten down and gives up, then pull out your Bible, lead him in The Magic Words, and pronounce him Truly Saved. Until the next evangelist pounces on him with another Ressegue Regression.
As you said in one of your essays, IMonk “Are You Saved? Are You Sure? Are You Certain You’re Sure? Are You Sure You’re Certain You’re Sure?” etc…)
And after you become a notch on half a dozen Bibles that way, you start wondering if it’s all BS from Day One.
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I needed this today. Thanks!
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Was it demons that came out, or just phlegm…?
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Michael,
A very nice post that caused me to think. I like the way you set this up, with Satan preaching. Very, very good.
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In practical matters, people encased in their sins are like hermit crabs in their shells. You don’t get a hermit crab out of his shell by grabbing his toes and pulling, and making him sensible of how much danger he is in. You get him out by treating him kindly, making him feel safe enough to poke his feelers out, and then offering him a better shell.
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you also stay up late in kentucky. shalom.
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You’ll be interested to know that the phrase “the law kills” is new testament. The cross “kills” in a quite different way. We are crucified with Christ, but not in the way the law “kills” us. The cross is a death in and with Jesus. The law is a death totally about us.
I find Washer’s stuff to be pretty much the most brutal and despairing sermons I’ve listened to recently. Destroys assurance in every message. I could see it once in a while. A diet of that would annihilate most Christians.
I am not familiar with Joyner, but I disagree with what you cited from him.
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Imonk re:
“Jesus is the constant mediator. Jesus is the constant advocate.
Satan is the constant accuser……The Gospel is news that is too good for accusers. The law is exact and in the hand of the enemy of our souls, it is a brutal, soul-killing weapon. In the hands of the Spirit, it is a schoolmaster that leads us to Christ. Leads. Not beats us to despair.”
Interesting subject, but I don’t know about your take, Imonk. Listen to the no. 1 youtube sermon by Paul Washer. His marshaling a litany of sins, like the “young preacher” in your example, and at least to my less than perfect discernment, seems to me to be a work of the flesh. That is, flesh pounding on other flesh.
Although Jesus ever lives to make intercession for us, He is not described as the “constant” advocate and mediator in scripture. He is also the Judge of man, being man Himself. A sword proceeds from His mouth in the Revelation of John. (19:15)
Your comments on the “law” as a weapon in the hands of the adversary remind me of the opening thesis of Rick Joyner’s book in the 1990’s, “There Were Two Trees in the Garden.” For Joyner, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the “law.” I don’t think satan ever tells the truth about much of anything, especially the law, which from Paul we know to be spiritual and good, and especially written for lawless men. And as I think you allude to, that which was meant to bring life brings death, due to the weakness of the flesh.
Yet what actually “kills the soul” is the cross, not the law. “He who loses his life (soul) for My sake will find it.” The cross is the great offense, both to the legalist and the liberal. He who by the Spirit puts to death the deeds of the body, will live. May it be so in my life, Lord Jesus.
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“…we too can only get back up with the strength of the Holy Eucharist…”
Good point. We talked about this very point last Sunday. Despite Elias’ attitude, God still fed him. The same is true for us. God is fatihful.
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“And then at then end, write, PAID FOR, by the blood of Jesus Christ.â€
at the end
Good piece.
I have been writing some pieces my self on the issue of humans just following God because he pays us. I have a lot in common with the Virtue (Kant) character in C. S. Lewis’ Pilgrim’s Regress.
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Well, of course, Brother Wes that’s the whole point of the gospel! But why glorify those murdering, raping, pillaging, slaving barbarians as a positive example of the Christian life? That life is the very antithesis of the gospel.
Who would advocate we get in touch with our inner Hannibal Lector to better understand Jesus’ instruction about “gnawing on my flesh and drinking my blood” (John 6:54)?
“Could it be.. Satan?” (Sorry, that was the Church Lady impersonation I could do online).
Peace, Love & Gospel, Amen!
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“What murdering, raping, pillaging, slaving barbarians have to do with the gospel escapes me.”
If I were not a murdering, raping, pillaging, slaving barbarian I would not need the gospel.
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“Can it be that those who sincerely seek to end the sufferings of the ‘least of His’ are Christian in their substance, even if they do not say ‘Lord, Lord’.?”
Great question, Christiane. I think about that a lot myself. That section of the Gospels makes it sound like some folks are going to be surprised to find themselves in Heaven/Kingdom of God. But Jesus says they cared for people, showed great love, etc., and that those are the people that will make up the Kingdom. I know there are great arguments that go on within the Christian circles about right belief versus right practice. If I had to err anywhere, I would rather err in thinking God cares more about what we do than what we believe. But I also am aware that what we believe affects what we do. It’s an interesting matter.
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“I don’t really think the devil cares a whit whether we come out of church feeling good, bad or in between, so long as we are thinking about ourselves, worrying about ourselves, despairing of ourselves, rejoicing over ourselves, whatever.”
I like that, Curtis. And I see you read or heard this Sunday’s readings. That was an interesting section about Elias.
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That’s wonderful, Ran. Thank you.
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The first time I read your post I thought being a barbarian was an insult. Now I’m horrified that it’s not! It reminds me of that Brady Bunch episode where Bobby idolized Jesse James. What murdering, raping, pillaging, slaving barbarians have to do with the gospel escapes me. That’s what got us in this mess in the first place; Adam and Eve trusting their primal gut instead of abiding in the Lord. Sounds like Satan’s playbook to me.
Peace, Love & Gospel
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Sorry. I think I posted the same time as you did last night.
Didn’t mean to get off track. I absolutely agree that the typical “where’s your fruit?” sermon is absolutely devastating. Instead of the “sin boldly” t-shirt, I’m thinking of getting one which reads, “lazy pew sitter”.
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It shouldn’t surprise us that these sermons make us sin more because they feed our narcissism. After all, no matter how brutal and blunt these sermons are, they are all about us and I don’t really think the devil cares a whit whether we come out of church feeling good, bad or in between, so long as we are thinking about ourselves, worrying about ourselves, despairing of ourselves, rejoicing over ourselves, whatever.
We should never be angry with ourselves over our sin. This only arises when we fail to achieve the aspirations of our prideful imagination. We imagine we are perfect when we have hardly begun to take the first step, then when we fail, we give up in despair, like the prophet Elias, who cried “Lord, this is enough, take my life”. Now Elias was only strengthened by the angelic bread, and so we too can only get back up with the strength of the Holy Eucharist, but it often takes us weeks or months to build up the resolve to receive it, so much are we obsessed and disturbed by our own weakness.
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Here’s my take:
ISTM that for preachers to harp on sin in our lives is to belabor the obvious… it’s beating the dead horse. Even if we will deny it to everyone we meet and try to deny it to God, deep down we know our lives are in the pit and our actions are killing us. We don’t need convinced of that fact.
What we need convinced of–and convicted of–is the way out. The way out isn’t behavior modification… We’ve all tried that route.
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Ok, so suppose I get the idea that God wants me to set my sights higher in some area of obedience and love for Him instead of favorably comparing myself to others, via the rhetorical device of “what would the devil say” in the sermon. I think the tie-in to what IMonk is saying then would be what do I do with this new found revelation? Do I walk away accused, searching and striving for some way to do better? Or do I walk away knowing that the power to fight sin comes through Christ and the Gospel (Eph 2:8-10), and that God already counts me as righteous and his adopted child, regardless of my pace of sanctification in this area?
I am thinking that IMonk’s point is the Christian context in which to place the point of your sermon — so they fit together perfectly.
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Can we preach in such a way that helps people see how dangerous sin is, how entraping, and imprisioning it is? Can we preach in such a way that helps people see that we are in a pig pin eating swinehusks? Can we help them come to that realization gently, without beating them up about it, and then deliver the gospel word?
Ironically as well, I think we only start to have some measure of victory over sin by deeply trusting that God loves us. I’ve noticed in my own life that my own sins are less appealing when I am trusting that God loves me.
However, beating up on myself only makes me want to sin more, so that I can numb my pain. Should we be too surprised if those devil sermons actually made people sin more, instead of less?
Sometimes I wonder if we will be sinless in the New Creation, not because our sin natures have been removed, but because then we will know fully how much God loves us, and sin will have no appeal.
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The law can be used to condemn…..or……
….the law can be a promise: this is how we’ll act/think/love/care/walk when we abide in the Spirit.
Jesus declared the law to be too EASY: Aadultery…how about lust? Murder…how about anger toward others? etc (pardon my paraphrases.) In doing so, He showed us that we can never satisfy God apart from dying as Adamic human beings and living as “Spirit-beings” in Him. The Condemnationalists (new sect?) simply leave us holding a bag that no one and nothing short of death can rid us of.
In the Spirit, the law becomes a description of how we can and will live…”from the inside out.”
“I’ll put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts…” (Jer 31) The law ain’t bad, it’s simply yet another promise we cannot attain except through His supernatural grace.
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Interestingly, I am preaching on a similar theme this week- that is, what would Satan want us to hear if he could sneak his way into the sermon. However, I came to the extreme on the other side, where our obedience to Christ is measured relative to others. “Compared to them, you do more than enough. You do enough, just relax.”. There is a real tension between these two extremes.
Peace,
Jamie
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why should the devil have all the good sermons?
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Your pastor is ordained to preach Christ and the Gospel from the Bible, not to preach the Bible willy nilly at whatever he’s annoyed at or for the purpose of browbeating some group of saints who didn’t show up for his last required meeting.
Jesus made it clear that the scriptures are about him. You preach them to preach him. You don’t preach them without him. Law without Gospel has no business in Christian proclamation. We have other religions to do that.
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Good God, man, Jesus was a Republican and clearly not a supporter of health care for everyone. God’s grace can only go so far and Christ did not come to save liberals.
Pardon the sarcasm.
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HUG,
Your showing your age… Flip Wilson….
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“So this week, you may want to say. ‘You know pastor, I think I heard that sermon before. I believe I know where you got it.'”
I agree that there should not be “gospel-less” preaching; Jesus buries my sins in the deepest sea. But the Bible must be proclaimed without apology, and if that means telling people what they’re doing is wrong so be it. Today the trend is more toward “soft preaching” which doesn’t want to step on anybody’s toes. “And they shall heap teachers to themselves, having itching ears….” I believe God uses men to convict other men about what they do wong and to motivate them to do right. But the devil can get into people’s head’s and tell them they’re worthless because all the wickedness they’ve done. Do not be paralyzed with guilt, but neither be ignorant of the truth that sin is sin.
And don’t criticize your pastor just because you didn’t like that he made you feel uncomfortable.
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It’s fascinating to me how many of us will draw the line of grace for the Lord. For example, Obama is a baptized, professing Christ adult convert, but evangelicals routinely say he is not a Christian. How exactly do you make that call? Based on Law or Gospel? Your offense or God’s hilarious grace?
I though Catholics has an infallible Pope and we hesitated to claim infallibility? Ahem.
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Law in the right amounts. Gospel every day in every way. That should be our strategy. If we err, let us err on the side of the Gospel.
Absolutely: so if you cant’ quite read the recipe: was that TEASPOON of ‘law’ or “TABLESPOON”, then go teaspoon. Do the reverse for GRACE. If you have it wrong, the Holy Spirit will clean it up, it’s easier to add a little more “get with it” than repent of being too harsh. At least that’s what I’ve seen.
Greg R
PS: these issues have evangelistic fallout…..is my version of “the good news” really good news ?? Good to ask that now and again, all of us are always one step away from Gal. 1 and 2.
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Such fatalism. Do we really forget we have the power over sin because Jesus gave it to us?
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Is it ‘get right with God or else’? or is it “Be not afraid.”?
I have always wondered this:
There are people who may say ‘Lord, Lord’,
but He will not recognize them and will send them away on the Day of the Lord.
There are people who have cared for the ‘least of His’ and He will recognize them and admit them into the Kingdom on The Last Day.
Can it be, that the way we are supposed to acknowledge Christ is by caring for the ‘least of His’?
Is the Gospel of St. Matthew teaching us that this is to be our acceptable ‘profession of faith’ in Him?
Can it be that those who sincerely seek to end the sufferings of the ‘least of His’ are Christian in their substance, even if they do not say ‘Lord, Lord’.?
I do not know the answers.
But whatever the answers are, they are certainly a part of the Mystery of Christ, what He is to us, and what we are to Him, and what we are to each other, as expressed in the Gospel of St. Matthew chapt. 25.
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…Ouch!
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…..im reminded of the time years ago when i was envolved in the Charismatic Movement in the 70s…i attended the Tennessee-Georgia Christian Camp led by the “Fort Lauderdale five”….one session headed by Derek Prince was on Satan and Demons…after a short teaching session ..boxes of cleanex were distributed and a mass exorcism demonstrated..it was something to see..we were instructed to begin coughing until the demons came out and believe me there were plenty of um…..i left there questioning the experience and the teaching…..i think we’ve been mis-taught about what is the Devils influence in our lives and what is simply depraved human behavior ………
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Or other people’s “helpful” remarks.
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That’s not the God I know either, but the God I know is crazy enough that he might save those people if he can find even the slightest reason to do so. It’s just their loss if they don’t get to know him better now.
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posted above before reading this post…..you are freakin’ me out, can I access OTHER areas of your brain as well….here’s hoping …
Greg R
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Sure, JESUS, whose sinlessness gave HIM a pretty good pipeline to the mind of GOD got this spot on every time; preachers and teachers who are eager to pick up the mantle of JESUS, and Paul for that matter, have a track record that’s not nearly that…..or the exact same authority. The more I’ve thot about it, I dont’ even think it possible that I, or any human, know the entire depth of our sin. THANK GOD for that…..I think it would kill us….it certainly killed ONE we love.. This doesn’t make light of repentance or conviction, it just means we are human and what we know of evil, even our own, is and will be incomplete.
As a tip off of what we HAVE to know in order to repent, I’m still leaning toward the prodigal son , who realized how ridiculouslly generous his father WAS, and dared to hope that maybe, just maybe , he still would be… I think that’s a more Jesus shaped picture of what we need.
Greg R
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God DOES love us just the way we are. Despite the fact that in no way, shape or form do any of us deserve it.
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I’ll take ‘b’…
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Shouldn’t there be some love and grace mixed in with all that law?
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Just another way of saying “Gimme Money”.
And a pretty indirect and underhanded way to say it.
Makes you long for Gene Scott’s directness:
“The Subject Today: Money.
Who to? Me.
What do you do: Send it!
NOW GIT ON THOSE TELEPHONES!”
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Who said “the devil made me do it?â€
Flip Wilson’s Geraldine, of course.
Plus, it’s as great an excuse machine as “God Willed It” Predestination.
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Who said “the devil made me do it?”
Who is using the devil to “get them off of the hook?”
The devil is awfully close to a metaphor in this post. If you’re not a believer, you should be applauding.
“and we’re being told God loves us…” Yes, that’s the Christian message, as summarized in Romans 5.
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“I look back now (I work with kids with OCD and such) and I can see that long story short, I was very predisposed as a child to OCD habits and actually had strong symptoms that go along with that i.e. religous worries, fears of death, etc.”
I also got diagnosed with OCD recently. Looking back, I think it helps explain a lot about my child hood. When I was 7, I always felt like I was the only kid in sunday school who ever took seriously what the sunday school teacher was saying; the other kids didn’t seem fazed, while I would lie awake at night afraid of hell.
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…..from reading through the posts i see how loosely we attribute to “the devil” all manners of our own character flaws…in other words we are quick to think “the Devil made me do it” when we break our own moral codes or behave badly..this essentially “gets us off the hook” by using a type of psychological Projection..after all ..a real christian would’nt do that……i fear we are in “Denial” of OURSELVES …and we’re being told God loves us just the way we are..does anyone see the problem with that statement as a way to get through life?
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“I grew up in IFB type churches that parodoxicaly were very “eternal security†but yet were always seeing folks saved multiple times, baptized multiple times, and with stories of preachers wives, deacons and sometimes even men who had been in the ministry for years finally “getting saved.”
That is such a good point. I was told growing up “Catholics don’t believe in grace, we do,” but, like you pointed out, if that were true then why all the fear mongering and terror at the altar?
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I wish i had read this 15 years ago. Back then I didn’t have any idea of how to defend myself against sermons that made me feel bad about myself. Every Christian needs to read this!
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“Blessed are the balanced” – Warren Wiersbe
Encourage , exhort, reprove, rebuke. All are aspects of Paul’s directions for preaching.
As Will S pointed out, Jesus had some pretty harsh things to say in Rev 2-3.
In recently reading 1 John, I noticed that even John used the “If Jesus lived you this much, why can’t you love others more” argument (1 Jn 4:11)
But it’s all a matter of balance. Sometimes, you or I need a hug. Sometimes you or I need a kick in the butt. The key is discerning the need and applying the right response.
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Me too!
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Try harder/be condemned/God doesn’t like you
or
Trust in Christ alone/be assured/God loves you
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“The Holy Spirit convicts. Satan revels in torment of the conscience. The Spirit exposes our need of Christ. The accuser comes up with various comparisons and tests to brutalize us with personal applications of the law.”
This rings very true to me. However, I sometimes still have a lot of trouble telling the two apart. And that scares me…that I can’t distinguish conviction by the Holy Spirit from accusations of Satan. The distinctions here are helpful though. Any further advice on how to tell the difference?
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What I find interesting is that the post is overwhelmingly aimed at the “bruised reeds” whom I hear from constantly at this site, but the conversation tends to drift toward the Pharisees. Well, we can all see how Jesus preached to the Pharisees (Matthew 23). Proud and arrogant religious hypocrisy gets the law, and in heavy doses. And some of us will be shepherding Pharisees in our flock. But the overall point, as you say so well in the second paragraph above, is that the imperfect child needs the love and comfort of the God of the Gospel, not discipline from the old covenant, the law and the prophets.
What I see in many churches of my tradition- and you may not have been exposed to as much of this as I have- is the brutalization of imperfect, struggling, weak Christians by preachers intoxicated with the feeling of crushing the wounded. It’s ugly and it’s responsible for a lot of people leaving the church, Christian families, and so on.
As you can appreciate Jerry, it’s a concern of mine because “law and Gospel” is a vitally important daily choice in our ministry. The real good at our place is done with the Gospel. And the real harm, if it’s done, is done by folks who believe that the law is, somehow, good for the saving of the soul.
Law in the right amounts. Gospel every day in every way. That should be our strategy. If we err, let us err on the side of the Gospel.
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Why don’t these preachers realize that only the Holy Ghost convicts of sin?
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I don’t have the knowledge Jesus had, but Rev 2-3 clearly testifies that there were Christians in some terrible churches. Calling a church dead is not the same as saying “No one in this church is a Christian.” Remnant and all that.
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I think the “need to see the depth of their sin†is true of the proud. I know I’ve traveled down this road at times, and God finds a way to humble me by showing me the depth of my sin. But He always speaks with such love, and I am again astonished at His grace to me.
But so often, a person can be beaten down by their own sin, by the whip of a devils sermon, and stand broken and bruised in their spirit. God’s words to them are always healing, accepting, loving, forgiving. And at that point, when a broken child is pulled close by the loving arms of God, they will cry tears of joy at the amazing Grace of God.
Some of us tend to be Pharisees and some of us tend to be weary and heavy laden. God loves us all and meets us with the truth we need to hear. We all, whoever we are, just need to look out for the lies that come in many forms.
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Wouldn’t have made a difference, Chris.
If nobody responded, he would have just chalked it up to “Hardness of Hearts” and preached LOUDER.
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I agree, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve”.
I find it interesting that disagreements over theology will illicit heated debate along with the many denominations we have accumulated, but the subtly of messages of condemnation wash over us but keep us from coming closer to the shepherd of our souls. We play with words, the Devil plays with souls. Which battle is worthy of a fight?
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In all of my times as an Evangelical, the sermons that were the most pleasing tome, and the ones that brought me closest to the infernal regions, were the ones that were preached in condemnation of sins that plagued other people, not my own.
Boy, those went down tasty!
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Perhaps if preachers would stick to exegetical sermons and forget the “felt needs” and sermon topics, just rely on The Word to tell the story we would be better off. That is why we baptists carry our bibles, to make sure the devil in the pulpit gets it right.
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So when Jesus told the church of Sardis that they were “dead”, would you say that he was just preaching to the church and not individuals?
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It’s interesting that we, as the church, seem to have gotten away from how God draws us to himself.
Romans 2:4c”God’s kindness leads you toward repentance” and
James 2:13c Mercy triumphs over judgment!
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Both, but there are considerable differences. How God speaks to Israel and how God speaks to an individual sinner have to be distinquished. If your ecclesiology is so high that individuals and the church are spoken to the same way, I think there’s a problem.
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So when you preach…are you preaching to individuals or churches?
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He would masquerade as a great man of God
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Actually what I meant to say is Perhaps one could say that a true understanding of real grace is a result of real faith.
Jaz – “Also, I am yet to meet a person who uses grace as an excuse to sin.”
I don’t know what to say here. I find them all the time. They prayed a prayer at one point or another, they go to church once in a while and they think they are cool with God. I heard someone say that he had God in his back pocket. People fool themselves into thinking stuff like that, and the kind of god their god is because that is much more convenient to their lifestyle.
That god is not the God I know. That Jesus is not the Jesus I read about. That grace is not the Grace I love.
Jesus’ call to us is radical and amazing. Gods grace should knock our socks off. I’m afraid much of the -church- is not the -Church-.
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Churches aren’t individuals. He offers the Gospel to individuals in the churches. He offers the law to the churches to show they’ve abandoned the Gospel.
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What concerns me is not that people “need to see the depth of their sin” but that the preaching of the law becomes the preaching of the Gospel. Feeling bad about sin isn’t the same as placing faith in Christ. All kinds of people feel terrible about their sins, beg God to forgive, promise to make it all up, etc. Gospel conviction- which many good writers have missed- is not an endless beat down over my sin but trusting in Christ alone for forgiveness and justification. In fact, forgiveness is only one dimension of Christ’s sufficiency and only one dimension of the message of the Gospel. Jesus is Lord. The Kingdom is now. Repent and believe. And so on.
Churches that endlessly expose sin generally have become addicted, usually via the power of a leader, to the idea that God wants us to feel bad. Note the Prodigal son. His Father didn’t say, “Do you feel bad? Really bad? Really, really bad? Let me show you how you’ve humiliated us…etc.” No, this was what the older brother was offended about. Dad shuts the son up when he tries to express remorse. That’s the twist in this story. The son’s remorse was NEVER that impressive or sincere. But the Father’s grace was totally undeserved. I grew up hearing that story told as if the son’s regret was necessary to prompt the Father’s grace. In fact, all the boy had to do was get within eyeshot of his dad and forgiveness arrived without even a speech.
That story gives us the proper relationship of out feeling bad about sin and the grace of God. If feeling bad gets you out of the far country and back to where the Father can embrace you its done its job.
Of course, in the story of the lost sheep, we get demoted down to the point that we don’t feel bad, we can’t make a speech, we don’t go home, etc. Jesus finds us and brings us back on his shoulders, all because he wants to rejoice.
And that’s the wonderful point. God is happy to forgive and restore. He’s not an accountant. He’s a thrower of parties that he pays for. And one who invites us to rejoice with him, even when we are the son and the sheep or the older brother.
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Do you think Jesus mixed these well in his comments to the seven churches?
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I will accept that label in the way it was used. My children, grown now, are children of a barbarian, they learned Jesus , not laws and rules. So much of what passes for Christianity seems cultish to me. Thank you Jesus for my barbarian status!
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Sorry about the “you southerners” comment. I thought that might come across wrong. I didn’t mean it in the pejorative sense. I was just noting that I was not sure if there was a regional difference in what a typical sermon looks like. Sorry.
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It’s “ya’ll”… 🙂
I think where we go wrong is that we forget there IS a difference between condemnation and conviction. And only one of them is from God.
We also forget that God is a perfect God. He loves us like no other can, has, or ever will. Not knowing about anyone’s relationship with their own Dads (and forgive me if this sparks pain), but if our own Dads raised us from brokenness, then how much more perfectly does God “father” us?
What good Dad (or Mom) doesn’t want the best for their children? Doesn’t revel in their joy? Doesn’t hurt in their sufferings? If you ask your father for bread, will he give you a stone? How much MORE does your heavenly Father love you?
Someone here will correct me if I am wrong, but does God get truly angry at those He loves? Or has not the cross abated His anger toward His children forever?
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You can’t appreciate forgiveness if you don’t appreciate the depth of sin in your life.
If this isn’t mixed with large doses of revelation of the “Prodigal Father’s ” heart, the ridiculously forgiving nature of Abba, then this becomes (IMO) more lie than truth. We wallow in our filth, amazed at how sleazy we are and hesitant to believe that any GOD who is truly HOLY will have anything to do with us. GOD says otherwise.
Greg R
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wow…if you are right , then the devil has been VERY busy in my neighborhood where I hear this message constantly (not at my fellowship, but at work, from friends, etc). I think you are on to something. May the LORD protect those you love from this false hope.
Greg R
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No one is denying the devil is at work in the church. I explicitly said, early on, that the devil “preaches” all kinds of sermons. I based this on one text. Obviously there are other texts. It’s not an “either/or” matter.
You won’t convict of us sin by telling us how shocking our sin is or yelling about at us about. Those are nothing but religious control behaviors. The Spirit does the convicting, not the preacher, the parent, etc.
By the way, the phrase “you southerners” is inappropriate. Hope the Spirit corrects you 🙂
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People struggle a lot with sin and grace because they only think of the Gospel in terms of what we shouldn’t do.
Christ paid the price, so we’re saved from our actions, but we need to repent.
But what we see Christ talking about, whether in the Sermon on the Mount, or elsewhere, is positive lifestyle, Gospel seeking action, lifestyle that creates life and breathes grace, Agape love that lives sacrifice.
So much of the time, we hit dead ends because all of the preaching is about what we shouldn’t do, and we can only empty so much of ourselves.
There is an excellent part of chapter four of Rob Bell’s “Sex God”, where he talks about the command by Paul for thieves to learn to make things with their hands and then give those things away to those who are in need. They fill the hole in their life that was previously held by theft with something else that uses their minds, their hands, their skill, and then replaces taking from others with giving to others.
The devil wants us focused on how we’ve failed or what we haven’t done; Christ wants us focused on what we can do and become through Him, what we were meant to be.
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Good word, brother. I believe it’s in 1John3 that we are told that God is greater than our condemning hearts. God is greater, Jesus is greater, the Spirit is greater, the gospel is greater! The simplicity of this has struck me this past week. I’m learning again that God is greater than the accusations of the enemy, of others and mainly those that come from within. He is greater than my perceived need to figure everything out, he is greater than my fears and doubts, he is greater than my flaws and defects, he is greater than my little self-righteous pharisee that tries to be religious…
God is Greater than…!
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I’d forgotten about the “quivering brethren” — Cousin Amos is still touring in his Ford van!
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It’s not a long book, but check out “Barbarian Way” by McManus. (Note to iMonk: I endorse anyone I find worthwhile to read or listen to. I gain nothing financially by endorsements. Only personal satisfaction).
One of the reasons I am housechurching is that I am a barbarian and want my kids to be barbarians as well. 🙂
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When Jesus addressed the seven churches of Asia in Rev he was pretty accusatory. The apostle Paul doesn’t preach ‘happy happy joy joy’ to the Corinthians (or several of the other churches) either. I think that the difference between the Devil and Jesus in Revelation or Paul in Corinthians is a willingness to point to Christ as the solution to sin. I think we live in a society that has lost all concepts of shame and sin. Maybe I don’t see what you southerners see being (I hail from Detroit) but I think that the Devil is doing a much better in today’s church by preaching bland sermons encouraging feel good moralism than if he started preaching about our sins. I don’t think that the problems in America stem from too much knowledge of our sin and too little knowledge of forgiveness – I think most people think that Jesus loves them and therefore their porn habit is not really a big deal. You can’t appreciate forgiveness if you don’t appreciate the depth of sin in your life.
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You are right to ask, “‘How does one “hide behind grace’? I’m covered in it.” That’s why I put the word “grace” in quotes and said such a person doesn’t really understand grace. Real grace pierces our hearts and leaves us different. Perhaps one could say that real grace is a result of real faith – Faith that is placed in the person of Jesus.
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Hmm. Does this include, not only not living up to orthopraxy, but not living up to orthodoxy as well? I’ve run into a fair number of people who will say that God’s grace is sufficient to cover our continual sins and falleness. But in my experience it seems like, at least in their eyes, God’s grace kind of dries up if the person isn’t Orthodox in their theology and beliefs.
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Best 4 minutes of preaching I’ve heard in quite a while. Heck, that was the best 20 minutes of preaching I’ve heard in a long time. (I had to replay it for others.) 🙂 Thanks for sharing.
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…but the devil would merely be giving his audience what they want: life with ego as king; self-sufficiency without the need of God; a Christ-less Christianity; self-actualization as the meaning of life; God, people and all creation as merely objects – means to ones own selfish ends. Don’t blame the devil for being such a successful evangelist. he has a very devoted following. As Luther taught, the enemy is not just the devil and the world, but also our own fallen nature.
We need forgiveness, but we also need to be born from above – the Holy Spirit putting to death the old nature and giving us new life in the image of the Son. There is a reason catecumins were called to renounce the devil before entering the waters of baptism. The gospel breaks two bonds which chain us to the devil: the one which satan latches on us through guilt of sin; one which we latch on ourselves through the love of the devil and his ways.
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I said that the devil’s many “preaching schemes” are almost endless. You’ve pointed out a good one.
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The devil is more clever. He would preach best-life-now and convince his audience that they can create their own personal heaven on earth by their own efforts an positive confessions, by enthusiastically following a list of seemingly easy principles. Of course, under the candy coating is 100-proof law; when they fail to achieve that best life, he blames their negativity or hidden sins. This leads to a fatal introspection which implodes his followers with despair. Like a back-alley drug pusher, he’ll then sell them another book and accompanying DVD set which is guarantied to counter-act the adverse effects of the previous one, and so on, and so on.
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In it, he talks not only about laying aside sins, but the importance of examining ourselves for weights that may not be specifically sins. It was personally helpful to me to think of the two entries in tension.
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Have you read Michael’s June 27 entry, “The Weight May Not Be a Sin”? I think it provides a good balance.
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It is also good to remember that Michael’s theme in this blog is “the evangelical wilderness” rather than “the mainline desert” or “the Catholic jungle.”
Therefore his posts tend to highlight not all possible problems but those peculiar to the evangelical protestant tradition and subculture.
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Mr. Leslie, if you’d entertain a young punks’ thoughts, I have a few comments.
My pastor took it for granted that I was one of those kids who knew the Gospel well enough to handle the “railings against sin in absence of grace” thing. I didn’t.
Now I want to fess up to what Luther said about the default mode of my heart being legalism, and therefore take some responsibility for the way I missed the Gospel for the first 20 or so years of faithful, twice a week minimum church attendance. BUT, my pastor’s responsibility was for me to be taught, assured, and reminded of the Gospel. I missed it largely because it was assumed, taken for granted, and not proclaimed. I tried, literally so damned hard, to think/feel/believe/behave rightly, and just couldn’t. Ironically, Scripture would lead me to expect this kind of outcome. Scripture out of context (and make no mistake, the context of ALL of Scripture is Jesus, and Him crucified) made me hate myself for it.
God wants holy people. However, if the Law could produce that, Jesus wouldn’t have come. See Galatians, especially ch. 3:21-22, for this. Also, I’ve been reading Titus lately, and it’s interesting how Paul keeps saying he wants the Gospel preached because he wants to see good works. In his mind, at least, the good works relied on the Gospel as their necessary antecedent.
I’m not picking on you, and rather appreciate your desire to keep your people from some pitfalls you’ve experienced. It’s just that Scripture teaches that the only way to deal with sin is to take it to Jesus. Anywhere else, and we’re just compounding problems.
Love, Grace, and Peace are yours in Jesus,
-Doug
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Jerry,
How does one “hide behind grace”? I’m covered in it. I couldn’t get behind it if I ran all day and all night and used a Hemi to try and get there. Grace stays with me wherever I go, or I’m following the wrong savior.
Derek,
I like that phrase “Barbarian.” Never heard it before, but my wife and I are both “barbarians.” Now I pray that my kids will grow up to be barbarian, not because I don’t want to see them following Christ from an early age, but rather that they will be so uncouth as to be mindless of the “church rules.”
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Jerry,
Here’s my take.
Salvation can only come by grace.
You cannot earn salvation by following the rules. You cannot keep salvation by following the rules.
You follow the rules so that you may have a better life.
Now that I belong to Him, nothing, not even my own sinful behavior, can ever seperate me from Him.
Also, I am yet to meet a person who uses grace as an excuse to sin.
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willoh,
I had read somewhere (I wish I knew where) that the children of first generation Christians (those of us who come to faith in Jesus after our youth and teen years) generally experience a greater dose of legalism than we experienced.
Erwin McManus has coined the term “Barbarian” for those of us who came to faith later and don’t really know how to “behave” as followers of Jesus. You know… the right words, the do’s and don’t’s lists…
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Those who have been forgiven much, love much. We are all terribly and hopelessly guilty, and Jesus paid an ocean of debt for every one of us. So I think the best thing we can do is recognize that and then fall deeper and deeper in love with Him.
On the flip side of that, I think that those who hide behind “grace” to do as they please, don’t understand sin and grace and how personal it all is to Jesus. It’s just religion to many of them- Fire insurance, a logical step of self preservation. And that’s just not the gospel.
Lord, help Your Church to be blown away and amazed again at Your grace. To be again kneel brokenhearted at the foot of the cross. Help us Lord, to fall more deeply in love with You.
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beautiful
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I heard this sermon over the weekend (in person) for the first time in over 10 years, after leaving behind a Christian high school where such manipulation was the norm. It made me very sad for all the teens and twenty-somethings assembled, and angry, knowing the scars that’s going to leave on the young believers in the audience. During the “every head bowed” alter call, I found myself wishing that nobody raised their hand in response to that kind of shameful manipulation, if only to make the “evangelist from two states over” question what possibly may be wrong with his delivery of the “gospel”.
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Hi Mike,
Seen the movie “Cold Comfort Farm” with the Church of the Quivering Brethren?
Luther said (somewhere) “If you feel unworthy of the sacrament of the altar, RUN to it!”
It was said of Brother Lawrence (Nicolas Herman of Lorraine) “That he was very sensible of his faults, but not discouraged by them; that he confessed them to God, but did not plead against Him to excuse them. When he had done so, he peaceably resumed his usual practice of love and adoration.”
“That when an occasion of practising some virtue offered, he addressed himself to God, saying, ‘Lord, I cannot do this unless Thou enablest me’; and that then he received strength more than sufficient. That when he had failed in his duty, he only confessed his fault saying to God, ‘I shall never do otherwise if You leave me to myself; it is You who must hinder my falling and mend what is amiss.’ That after this he gave himself no further uneasiness about it.”
“That we ought, without anxiety, to expect the pardon of our sins from the blood of Jesus Christ, only endeavoring to love Him with all our hearts.” And love is a fruit of the Spirit, it’s God’s work not ours.
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>….there are a thousand evil things that Christians do, but don’t worry about ‘em ’cause God forgives all.
Not trying to be snarky, I promise, but I’ve done a thousand evil things and God forgives them all.
Bonhoeffer’s idea of cheap grace was a pretty unLutheran articulation that deserves a lot of discussion. I’m never impressed with how those quotes are used.
Bonhoeffer said, basically, that cheap grace was grace without discipleship, which amounts to taking some of what Jesus said and did as true but not all.
Forgiveness is totally extravagant and without limits. God forgives Ted Haggard. Me. Thieves. Abusers. Crooked politicians. Lawyers who cheat widows. That’s the gospel or there is no gospel.
But he doesn’t do it “cheap.” He does it in the Gospel, he does it through Christ Jesus the Lord and he does it for those who are marked to belong to Christ and become his disciples.
Still, the “balance” in mu view, is always tilted towards the scandal of grace. Otherwise, we wind up drawing lines, saying that the people who offend us most aren’t forgiven, setting limits that turn into sermons about how God won’t forgive x or y.
I prefer to err on the side of grace and shock the world rather than try to keep a balance that, in the end, is always going to exclude me.
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On the opposite extreme of this is the “cheap grace” problem: the one where there are a thousand evil things that Christians do, but don’t worry about ’em ’cause God forgives all.
I rail against sin a lot. (Mainly the ones I myself practice or have practiced; I’m not so worked up about the things that don’t tempt me.) And frequently, when I’m ranting against we Christians’ bad behavior, and pointing out that this sort of stuff would ordinarily send us to hell, I don’t always point out that God’s grace covers a multitude of this bad behavior. I know it does. Of course it does. I tend to take it for granted that my audiences know it does. But in that, I suppose I’m forgetting the newbies or youngsters in my audience, who really haven’t heard enough about grace. Or maybe I’m unconsciously thinking of the young schmucks like I was, who took advantage of that grace in order to “get away with” sin.
It’s a hard balance.
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The words this this old hymn come to mind:
“When Satan tempts me to despair
And tells me of the guilt within,
Upward I look and see Him there
Who made an end of all my sin.
Because the sinless Savior died
My sinful soul is counted free.
For God the just is satisfied
To look on Him and pardon me”
I love the thought. Thank you Jesus.
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Agreed. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.
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Some times I have great regret for coming to Christ as an adult, other times i am just glad i missed those scorcher sermons as a kid, i may not have had the sense/guts to walk out back then.
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“Mature is code for tithe.”
Great line!
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Good point, Headless Unicorn Guy. Yes, I recognized that IMonk’s subject was the “beatdown sermon” and trying to offer up hope/Christ to those damaged by beatdown sermons.
I guess the reason for my post was to illuminate sort of the opposite of the beatdown sermon, which tends not to leave behind damaged people, but takes people away from God and Christ just as effectively because people may not even recognize they’ve been led astray.
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Thanks for posting the Matt Chandler clip. Now THAT’S a sermon!
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Phillip, it’s been a while since I’ve heard a preacher move me to tears . . . but that did it. Thanks. Great guy, even better message.
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This was succint and well written and I appreciate the notion of “deadly whispers”. Thank you.
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Those that enter the catacombs of the early Christians will find evidence that they believed in the goodness of Our Savior, not representations of hell-fire. Many engravings of Christ, as the Good Shepherd, are shown on these ancient tombs:
as Jesus is bearing a lamb safely ‘home’.
“Seek You the Hundredth?
Where are the cattle of a thousand hills?
Like sheep without a shepherd is this sheep.
Where is Your flock? And will You now me keep?
For though I knew Your Word and works and will,
still waters were not where I would be still,
and wild was fruit I sowed, which now I reap
and eat with bitter bleating while I weep
so far afield the fold that You would fill.
Seek You the hundredth? Ninety-nine abound,
yet You seek prints pressed by my little hoof
across the scattered sands of stony ground
and, lo, You find Your little lamb aloof
of joy in heaven. Have I now been found?
Yet laid upon Your shoulders is the proof.”
~ by Michael Rew
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Again, I have to thank God for this blog.
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I’m not even a pastor, and still friends accuse me of being “too soft on sin!”
It’s not true. I take sin, especially my own, far more seriously than most people I know. I take the grace and promises of God, and the salvation found in Jesus Christ even more seriously.
I’m reminded of a great clip from Matt Chandler on one of the devil’s sermons he once heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zR3h2UsR4
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My friends call this type of sermon/internal dialogue, “deadly whispers” .
My pastor preaches it in some form or fashion on a regular basis but never in an angry thundering manner. No, he preaches it with a smile even though there’s no gospel antidote included. My pastor uses The Devil’s Sermons to manipulate people into being mature Christians. Mature is code for tithe .
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And when that beatdown internal monologue gets reinforced by beatdown sermons?
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Problem is, Rick, IMonk’s subject is “the beatdown sermon”; during my time in the Evangelical Wilderness, I experienced the Beatdown sermon a LOT more often than the I’m OK, You’re OK sermon.
Both are equally out-of-balance in opposite directions, just like the Gospels they’re associated with. Either the I’m OK, You’re OK (unless you’re Republican) Social Gospel without personal salvation, or the Beatdown/Altar Call Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation.
“The Devil sends sins in matched opposing pairs, so that in avoiding one we commit the other.”
— either C.S.Lewis or G.K.Chesterton
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I’ve only recently begun to be able to deal with my own upbringing. I grew up in IFB type churches that parodoxicaly were very “eternal security” but yet were always seeing folks saved multiple times, baptized multiple times, and with stories of preachers wives, deacons and sometimes even men who had been in the ministry for years finally “getting saved.”
Now I do believe that some folks do have crises conversions, but I have come to see them as the exception not the rule. But I grew up with parents that loved me much, and a father who was well known in these types. As a child I sat thru weeks of night after night of hellfire sermons. Of preachers stories with kids burnign in cars, faces frozen in terror. Folks seeing demons in their hospital rooms. It was terrifying.
Now I do beleive in a literal hell, and I still believe there is no need to sugar coat anything, but I can look back and see the horror and uncertainty that was in my life.
I struggled for years with assurance and would have fits of terror where I literally could not sleep or eat for days afraid that I had been decieved that Satan had fooled me into believing I was saved etc.
I look back now (I work with kids with OCD and such) and I can see that long story short, I was very predisposed as a child to OCD habits and actually had strong symptoms that go along with that i.e. religous worries, fears of death, etc.
I can vividly remember one night tryign to sleep and watching the kerosene heater in our room and crying about if that is how hot hell was. I was maybe five.
I really don’t think my folks were abusive, i just think they were ignorant. My dad for his credit turned away from that by the time I was a teen.
I struggled for years with assurance until one day after our family thru a tragedy had taken refuge in an SBC church where no one knew us, my parents finally said I should sit and talk to him about my fears. I said pastor “I dont’ feel saved.”
He looked me and kindly smiled and grinned and said, “Oh, is that all? Son, I don’t feel saved most days when I get out of bed.” What proceeded was a good discusion of what exactly salvation was.
I’ve never looked back since that day, and I have made it a point in my ministry to avoid all preacher stories, and making folks doubt their salvation by anything I say.
I’ve found the cross sufficient.
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Wow. Great post, iMonk. This description is eerily reminescent of a church I attended briefly during my freshman year of college.
“Christ wants to bring the wandering sheep home. Satan wants the sheep to despair and jump off the cliff.” This part makes me gasp, because that’s exactly what it was. When you walk out of church each Sunday feeling like you ought to pray for forgiveness but you don’t because you don’t think it will help much, something’s wrong. I hope this post will help people who find themselves in a similar situation. Don’t be afraid to be one of the sheep who runs away (to a more healthier situation). I ran, and I thank God I did.
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My answer to the devil’s sermon:
Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
That no longer gives the law a leg to stand on.
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Timely. Last night I was at meeting where the fall agenda for our church was discussed . . . “Rooting out and dealing with personal sin in our lives,†using the book, The Bait of Satan as a source. I argued that what most people need to hear is that they are really forgiven and that church is a safe place to come . . . bear all, and be loved and supported.
Along with those sermon words, which you described, there would also be the constant exposure of the “blessed families.†That’s the families (or people) who God really likes (instead of you). They smile all the time. They tell wonderful stories of constant victory and amazing (although doubtous) miracles. They have lots of money . . . no diseases or problems (at least none that they would admit). You know, the godly-ones.That’s why I think veneer Christians (as in Sham Pears before Real Swine) are also “visual accusers.”
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“Nowhere do we tempt more effectively than at the very foot of the altar.”
— Screwtape
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Oh and I do realize that this is pointed towards those who have heard this type of thing constantly or have grown up with it in some way. But I’m curious if, say, once a year you might really challenge the kids at your school with this sort of message, wrapped up with a grace-filled Gospel message.
Now that I think about it, this would be a great way to preach the love of God. “Look at how much you fail. Look at how poor of a Christian your works prove yourself to be. Look how much God loves you anyway. He’s after your heart….”
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Are there times when strong words like those are needed? How should people be called to examine themselves?
I know I am in constant need of having my desires, pursuits, disciplines, and habits challenged, and frankly some of what you wrote convicted me in a positive way.
I know I am accepted and loved despite my failings because of the Gospel, but I also want to pursue God and I always need reminding of these things (as Peter might say).
What do you think is the balance here?
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Wow, Michael. “I know where you got it…”
Ouch. Sadly, I could have said that more than a few times. And not from a “fire and brimstone” type pastor, typically.
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What timing! I had just watched a video called “The Fire” one of my facebook friends “shared” which was in essence the sermon you’re describing here.
I felt like I needed a bath afterwards.
I was looking for a way to verbalize what I was feeling. This post was exactly what I needed. Thanks.
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You know, Michael, I tried really hard to write a response to yesterday’s post, but the wounds are still too recent, and the scars are still bright red. The healing has begun, but the scar tissue is too fragile yet for me to go there. And all of that is from years–probably about 46 years in fact–of listening to this sort of thing in the pulpit, at camp, at school, and to an extent at home as I was growing up. I struggle mightily with the concept of God’s furious longing for me. I cannot grasp that I am important to anyone, let alone to God. All three of my siblings are in the same state, some in a worse state than I am. My dad was that sort of pastor, you see, and that kind of teaching made it difficult to even have a relationship with our closest relatives. He got in my aunt-by-marriage’s face too many times about how she was going to hell because she was Roman Catholic. Add to that other similar things, and you will understand why I couldn’t identify any of my first cousins if I met them on the street. Satan has had a heyday with my family.
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Never mind hearing this from other Christians… what about Christians’ own internal monlogue?
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iMonk said: “But if Satan were true to his nature, he would be the ‘accuser’ of the family of God.”
Actually, if Satan were true to his nature, he would do anything and everything to keep people from a relationship with God and a recognition of Jesus as savior. While that would sometimes play out as you show, in an “accuser of the family of God” sermon, I think it would just as often play out in a “you’re okay, everything you do is okay, you don’t really need God and that Jesus guy” sermon.
I wonder…if any sermon isn’t pointing us in the direction of God and Jesus, the need for a relationship with Him and the necessity for belief in Jesus’ life, death and resurrection…maybe it’s a sermon worthy of the Devil?
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Great stuff Michael. I can tell you as a pastor that when you preach the grace of God you will hear that you are antinomian, licentious, and have fallen prey to the heresy of “easy believism.” When instead of haranguing the people with how bad they are, you show them how good Christ is and how much His heart is for them to know Him and rest in Him it can lead to misunderstanding. True rest in the grace of God and the faithfulness of Christ is scandalous.
However, as you have shown, the alternative is far, far worse. Thanks for sharing your heart.
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Lord, have mercy–I pray that no one ever says that to you, me, or any other person preaching in any church. Let’s go for that “amazing grace” about which we like to sing!
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