Open Mic at the iMonk Cafe: What Would You Say to the Marilyn Manson Audience?

Posted byChaplainmikePosted inOpen Thread

rock_3821First read the story of Christian protestors at a Marilyn Manson concert. (Slow…be patient)

Then, savor the irony: If you read Manson’s biography, he’s the product of Christian parenting and fundamentalist education.

Marilyn Manson was born as Brian Hugh Warner in Canton, Ohio, the son of Barb Wyer and Hugh Jack Warner. His father was a Roman Catholic and his mother was an Episcopalian. According to his autobiography The Long Hard Road Out of Hell, …He was raised in his mother’s religion. Warner attended Heritage Christian School from first grade to tenth grade.

Instead of owning up to one of the unfortunate possible results of fundamentalism, Christians are protesting and denouncing Manson.

So, imagine through the magic of the Internet Monk Research Department, you are able to place an ad on a website that will be read by everyone who attended the Manson concert and saw the protestors.

What would your ad say? (Limit: 350 words)

201 thoughts on “Open Mic at the iMonk Cafe: What Would You Say to the Marilyn Manson Audience?”

  4. Amy
    That sounds so nice…”There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.”
    Is what was done by Donal Miller the way that Jesus, Peter, James, John, and Paul shared the Gospel? Is that the method that the Bible teaches us…to criticize other Christians and to blame all the bad things that happened in hstory as the fault of Christians and not of corrupt people who took power in the church to use it? The Empire took control of the visible church and Athanasius stood against them. He stood upon the Word of God and not the feelings of men.
    If they used this as an opportunity to share the Gospel are correct false teachings about Church History good for them. But if it was just a “Hey were just like you we bash Christians too” festival, that never talked of sin, repentance, and the need for a Savior, then they accomplished nothing.

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  6. Charley’s ad

    “God has never spoken to me….if you want a … discusssion with a Christian, look me up.”

    Wow. God has spoken to me and most Christians I know….from His Word…The Bible. His Word is living and active. I understand from all of the response posts to my ad that God’s Word is passe to those in the emerging church. As the author of “The Shack” snarks, “God’s voice has been reduced to paper”. The Bible is no longer good enough. Yeah Mohammed, Joe Smith, and money others think so too. There seems to be a lot of anger and “snarky” comments against Christians who actively share the Gospel. While I would never use a bullhorn on a street corner, when I do see a Christian doing this I pray for Him. I thank God for him. Is it the most effective way to reach people. No, I don’t think so. But will he reach some? Yes he will. It may not reach the emerging arts & croissant crowd, but it will reach some. God promises to honor even the smallest attempt to share His Gospel.

    The assignment was an ad…to be written to the people who attended the concert and saw the protestors. An ad that was to be read. When I actually go out into the community and share the Gospel clearly my approach is different. Conversation is different than writing. I have been trained in Evangelism Explosion and Way of the Master. I always begin by asking questions, and if I do ask a spiritually sensitive question I ask permission to even ask the question. I ask permission to share the Gospel. I don’t know if the Christians at the Manson concert were using bullhorns or asking questions. The article did not say. But God will honor them.

    As an evangelist my job is to toss seed. If the seed hits on stoney ground then I have done what God has asked. If the seed falls into the thorns and thickets, I have done my job. If the seed sprouts for a short time and then allows the cares and worries of this world to prevent growth, I have done my job. If the seed falls on good soil and takes hold and establishes strong roots, Praise God for allowing me to throw seed that He brought to bear fruit.

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  7. Headless Unicorn Guy, I like your style.

    To the people protesting the concert, “Jesus didn’t tell you to sell salvation like a vacuum. He told you to make disciples. Are you really doing that by your actions? Are you inviting these aching, hurting, wounded people to follow me as I called you to truly follow me, too? Jesus gave us the Gospels that we would know Him. God gave us the rest of the New Testament to teach the church – not to condemn those who don’t know him. He told the woman caught in adultery – neither do I condemn you also. You are a poor example of following the 2nd commandment (much like the first). These concertgoers ARE your neighbors. How are you showing them love and acceptance as image-bearers of our Father?”

    To the attendees, “Forgive us for making you feel like ‘less’. Whether you attended the concert or not is NOT the point. The point is that we want to get to know you better. To understand what it is you wrestle with. To walk beside you through the darkness. To make a new friend.”

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  9. The shorter version of this could be:

    To the Protestors: Way to judge the sinful, you are beautiful in your righteousness.

    To the Concert Goers: We judge you and find you wanting. Come join the true beautiful people in church.

    ^^

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  10. As members of God’s priesthood, we must tell people who God is, and why Jesus is necessary to their life…after showing them.

    Telling people that they’re deluded fools because they haven’t already realized something that we aren’t showing or telling them in a meaningful way (Jesus loves you! Let me hit you with my bible again, you jerk!”) is not only hypocritical, it’s actively misleading people. Which there will be judgment for, according to Paul.

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  11. How can those that have not received Christ face eternal separation from God when only those who have received Christ will receive eternal life? You can’t have eternal anything if you haven’t been granted eternal life.

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  14. Thank you, Sarah O. Not meaning to belittle anybody, but you can tell who is actually thinking and who is just projectile vomiting the same crud I used to hear day after day after day from the Assortment of Usual Suspects of wandering campus evangelists I saw in college – day after day after day. Anyway, someone has to say it, and for some reason I’m in the mood for a little self-punishment, so I guess I volunteer.

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  16. Matt, I admire your dogged tenacity in this.

    The responses you are dogging are ones that it’s hard for me to even past the first sentence. I immediately think to myself “oh, right, this is the empty shouting that I’ve learned to tune out years ago”

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  18. I would try not to say anything to a “Marilyn Manson” type.
    I would buy him a beer, sit on a bar stool, and listen.
    I’m sure he would have a lot he would want to get off his chest.
    People don’t listen until they have been heard and affirmed.

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  19. I like that quotation a lot too. Pray that the Church will have a bigger heart, big enough to take in all the hurting folks who do not know that God is so close to them. So many of us, to believe in God, have to see a little bit of unconditional love from humans before they can even get an inkling of what that may be like when God offers that love.

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  20. I have to say, I definitely need a large injection of charity towards the Furries (mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!)

    Especially since people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, and I’ve been a Trekkie since waaay back 🙂

    So, for the patron saint of the Furries, we have St. Christopher the Dog-Head:

    http://m-francis.livejournal.com/78828.html

    Mike Flynn here says he was from Ireland, but he was an Eastern Orthodox saint. It’s St. Murgen the Mermaid who’s Irish 😉

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  23. Standard Christian (TM) Tract boilerplate. Complete with BOLDFACE CAPS, though without the multiple exclamation points. The type of “Witnessing” (aka Preaching to the Converted, using all the Right Christianese) that Warms the Hearts of Church Ladies and nobody else.

    “Never trust anyone who pronounces ‘Jesus’ with two ‘e’s and/or ‘LORD’ with two ‘O’s.”
    — Don’t know where I heard that one, but that’s the accent I was hearing as I read Athanasius’ tract.

    Yes, this is snarky. I’ve gotten very cranky in my old age, have zero tolerance for stupidity, and just got off the phone from a burned-out preacher bud’s latest RL horror story about what his congregation pulled on him in all their Righteousness.

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  24. Great. Short and to the point.

    And the Church DOES need Goths and Spookyboys. And D&Ders, and Furries.

    We’ve been dominated by Televangelists and Church Ladies for too long.

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  25. And by the mid-Nineties, the side effects of the Sixties/Seventies had grown to an elephant-sized pile in the Baby Boomers’ living room.

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  26. Many people, myself included, simply believe Manson’s music is better than virtually everything on K-love. That’s it. Most people on this site will disagree, but that’s it.

    From what I’ve heard of K-love (“We’re Safe for the Whole Family”?), that’s not hard.

    If you want to reach the Manson audience, don’t try to be a goth Christian (you’ll come off as fake)…

    Unless you actually ARE both Goth and Christian. Otherwise, you’ll find an in-group is VERY good at spotting phonies. Especially when Evangelicals are painfully out to sea when outside the four walls of their church or a Culture War march.

    (I saw this pattern when Campus Crusade tried to infiltrate “Sheep in Wolves’ Clothing” into my D&D club in the Seventies. It’s like that early “Doonesbury” strip where a DEA agent is trying to infiltrate a head shop and is dressed in clearly-imitation head wear and using “hipster” slang that’s ten years out of date. “What’s it like being a druggie in this town?” “Not bad. What’s it like being a DEA agent?”)

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  29. If parents didn’t get so upset by their kids listening to Marilyn Manson he would be a non-issue. Years ago, Alice Cooper admitted that part of their goal was to get parents to hate them because then the kids would love them.

    When I was a kid if you really wanted to upset your parents, you went out and bought yourself an AC/DC album. Remember all the crap about AntiChrist/DevilChild? So, who did we all LOVE? AC/DC!

    The problem is that to shock and horrify parents who grew up on Alice Cooper, AC/DC, and Ozzy – you have to go further and be even more shocking than they were – hence Marilyn Manson who is nothing more than an extremely bad caricture of Alice Cooper.

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  33. …place an ad on a website that will be read by everyone who attended the Manson concert and saw the protesters. What would your ad say?

    Not knowing any one of the protesters personally, I would place an ad that had to do with whatever business or personal endeavor I was involved with. I would say it in a way that would gain the most interest possible in my product/endeavor from Manson fans with some point of interest tied to what the protest was about, then get to know any/some of the protesters personally after their response. The rest would be just living out life in spirit and truth, being able to serve them in a way that promoted good.

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  35. I own a few CD’s, my wife’s a fan, she’s seen him twice, and we saw him together in 2001.

    Honesty is usually the best answer. Yes, there are people who are obsessed with him. Yes, a few songs have lyrics that are repulsive. But it’s not just about kids rebelling, or an image, although that’s definitely part of it. Many people, myself included, simply believe Manson’s music is better than virtually everything on K-love. That’s it. Most people on this site will disagree, but that’s it.

    If you want to reach the Manson audience, don’t try to be a goth Christian (you’ll come off as fake) or protest like he’s leading a march to hell (you actually make him look cooler). Just be honest, and most of all, listen.

    My ad:

    “Unlike the protesters, I don’t claim to have all the answers. God has never spoken to me, and sometimes i doubt his existence. If you want to have your first honest discussion with a Christian, look me up.”

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  39. “Feeling dehydrated or got the muchies from the concert? Too much beer or lettuce? Free cold water and Doritos! Ears still ringing? I’ll whisper. Just plain tired? I’ll find a cot. Need someone to listen, I have ears.”

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  40. Hmm…poisons minds, eh? Mayhap I should download some of his music. My mind could use some pollution these days…

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  41. You’re missing the point entirely – Manson is a just musician doing his dumb thing in Florida that got national popularity BECAUSE there was what you call a ‘niche of downer teenagers’ who related and rocked out to his albums by the millions.

    Why Manson existed at the level of cultural consciousness that he did (instead of, say, a more or less violent, more anti-social, or more musical rock frontman – and there were and remain bars full of aspiring Generation Spokesmodels, to be sure) is ENTIRELY the point – and that’s not a product of marketing but of building an audience through the expression of a quintessentially musical virtue: sincerity, which you seem to think he doesn’t have.

    I think Manson’s music sucks, and I think his gimmick is wack, but I absolutely don’t doubt that he resonated with his fans because he was, in some sense that you and Christian Culture Warriordom cannot seem to understand, One Of Them.

    Real people respect that.

    Until Christians give it up to stand with disaffected teenagers, drug abusers, and losers, not to “save” them, but to be counted as One Of Them, all this proselytizing is adspace and consequently meaningless.

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  42. You’re missing the point entirely – Manson is a just musician doing his dumb thing in Florida that got national popularity BECAUSE there was what you call a ‘niche of downer teenagers’ who related and rocked out to his albums by the millions.

    Why Manson existed at the level of cultural consciousness that he did (instead of, say, a more or less violent, more anti-social, or more musical rock frontman – and there were and remain bars full of aspiring Generation Spokesmodels, to be sure) is ENTIRELY the point – and that’s not a product of marketing but of building an audience through the expression of a quintessentially musical virtue: sincerity, which you seem to think he doesn’t have.

    I think Manson’s music sucks, and I think his gimmick is wack, but I absolutely don’t doubt that he resonated with his fans because he was, in some sense that you and Christian Culture Warriordom cannot seem to understand, One Of Them.

    Real people respect that.

    Until Christians give it up to stand with disaffected teenagers, drug abusers, and losers, not to “save” them, but as One Of Them, all this proselytizing is adspace and consequently meaningless.

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  44. You’re not getting it are you?

    I’ll say it again:

    “Whatever.”

    In recent hours, Windblown and Amy have shown they get it. You don’t. You’re spewing the same, rote stuff I heard from campus evangelists for years, and it’s no more convincing – although I’ll give you points for better grammar.

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  48. I love what Donald Miller and some friends did at the university they attended in Washington State, considered the most hedonistic college in the USA. During the college’s week of revelry, drinking, drugs, sex, etc. this group of Christians set up a confession booth, which they used to confess the unloving, unChristlike things that Christians have done through the centuries. This opened many doors that otherwise would not have been opened for discussion and building of relationships with many people. Sounds like an amazing way to build bridges and show God’s love.

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  49. Attention all Manson fans:
    You saw passionate Christians last night expressing their love and concern for you.
    But those Christians are not one-trick ponies, I’ll tell you.
    You’ll see those same people volunteering down at the homeless shelter today.
    And tomorrow they’ll be getting some money together for an orphanage in Africa.
    And later in the week they’re visiting some new-made friends at the AIDS hospice.
    … well I’m almost confident they will be. Christians who get that fired up over MM will surely also be fired up over things that really matter.

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  50. P.S.

    Make that LEEEROY JENKINS!!!!!! running a Left Behind Fever of around 106.

    My writing partner and I each lost 15 years of our lives to *The Rapture of the Church is about to take place, then the Anti-Christ will appear as a world ruler under a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT AND RELIGION, You will be forced to receive a mark to buy or sell anything vital for life, you will be forced to worship this Demon possessed ruler…” bla bla bla.

    Then it was Hal LIndsay — date after date (1975, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1988…), Antichrist after Antichrist (remember Henry Kissinger?), End Time Prophecy Fulfillment after End Time Prophecy Fulfillment (remember when the European Common Market had only 10 members?), bla bla bla.

    Who will restore those 15 years the Rapture Locusts have eaten?

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  51. Marilyn Manson and his music poisons minds. He promotes self mutilation and all kinds of other stuff. I don’t know what I would say to attendees. I think such a discussion should occur one on on e.

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  52. The assignment was an ad of 350 words or less.

    To those who went to the MM concert in order to share the love of Jesus Christ…Thank You! As you hand out God’s word in tracts, t-shirts, and especially by actually opening your mouths the promise is clear: “My Word…will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire”. Isaiah 55:11. The media calls your evangelistic attempts “protesting”, but God knows you are there to spread His Word. I encourage you to not lose heart at the constant criticism that you receive from the “SILENT majority” in the churches who shun evangelism, tracts, handing out Bibles, etc… and want to do good works without ever mentioning the name of JESUS, and think that somehow they are advancing the Kingdom. Ignore them. They think nothing of the hypocrisy of protesting you for sharing Christ. They swell with PRIDE at the notion that they are somehow better Christians because they do nothing but criticize Bible believing Christians for actually working while it is still Light.
    To those who attended and are not believers in Jesus Christ: The TRUTH matters. You may not think so, but it does. DEATH is a reality. Are you certain what is going to happen to you after you die? Are you concerned about whether you will go to Heaven or Hell? Those around you may act as though it is a joke. It is NOT. Everyone has been infected with a disease called SIN. Have you ever lied? Do you think lying is wrong? WHY? God says lying, stealing, blaspheming, and adultery are SINS. Not believing in GOD is the #1 SIN. Unless you are cleansed of this disease you will be quarantined from Heaven. The only cure for the disease of SIN is the blood of Jesus Christ. Pray to God right now that He will lead you to someone who knows how to share the Good News of Jesus Christ with you, and if someone claims to know and cannot defend their position from the BIBLE, find someone else.

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  53. “Hey, have you ever heard of a guy called Cliff Richard? I think he did a song called “Devil Woman” once. Pretty cool, huh?”

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  54. My son would want to know what word it was because it was bleeped out.

    Just playing around. I understand why you did it.

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  55. Actually, just trying to be sensitive because you never know who’s reading over some parent’s shoulder, KWIM.

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  57. Why is ANYONE protesting Manson? Isn’t that like protesting KISS? or Alice Cooper? Kine of old news.

    I think he would have a great conversation with any of us. I remember an interview he did when he was getting married for the first time. The interviewer was flummoxed by his support of marriage, being the guy that bashes every religious institution. But his comment was something like: “There’s something about marriage to commit yourself to one person, where we spend the rest of our lives back to back, swords drawn, protecting each other from whatever life throws at us”

    I thought it was interesting that he could still see the moral clarity of that union.

    My experience is that these folks would responde better to dialogue, since they’re used to protests. It would do both parties good.

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  58. Clever. They’re right, one of the best ways of generating sales for a movie, book, TV show, whatever is for there to be controversy. It works both ways, BTW – as “Passion of the Christ” demostrated.

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  61. Doug, my friend, I wasn’t mocking teenagers.

    I was saying that I’m old enough not to have been shocked, shocked! when Marilyn Manson came on the scene because been there, seen that.

    I was making the point that a lot of us (old enough to be the parents of today’s teenagers) in our time listened to blood-in-the-bath music and we turned out (relatively) normal.

    I was making the point that Marilyn Manson is not some isolated, never-before-seen phenomenon of dark Satanic influence straight from the bowels of Abaddon.

    He’s a performer, in a specific tradition. There have been other bands and musicians before him who had the same influences/ideas/costuming/schtick, and I’m perfectly willing to bet good money that in twenty, fifty or a hundred years from now (if God spares us) there will still be musicians/artists/actors/writers dressing up in black, wearing makeup, and singing about death, blood, the supernatural, and so forth, and ‘challenging’ society/conformity/the Man. ( I put “challenging” in quotation marks because, come on guys, he’s got a record contract; he puts on concerts in stadia and professional concert venues; he sells associated products; I’m quite sure if there was any unauthorised copying or infringement of his works or image there would be court cases about it, and at the end of the day he’s a professional musician who has developed a specific image and good luck to him with that).

    “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”

    Though I still maintain Dave Gahan kicks his butt musically and creatively 🙂

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  63. Blood! Pain! Body Piercing! Death!
    The true story of Jesus is about the darkest deeds of humankind, and a man who wouldn’t stay dead.
    But you probably didn’t get that from the guys protesting outside the concert. That is why the Church needs you.

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  70. Reminds me of the common description of an AA meeting:

    It starts with a prayer and ends with a prayer and there’s a whole lot of cussing in between.

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  72. My ad would say.

    God loves you, we have to because He said to. If you need help with anything, anything at all that we might be able to assist with, food, clothes, counseling, transportation,substance abuse, loneliness, anything, call Dayspring Bible Chapel, 570-822-1714, someone will help you without judging, We will do our best, He commands it.

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  73. Is this for real?
    My cousin was once hired by a P.R. film to hold signs and protest the opening of a movie. The producers of the movie paid for the protest, hoping the controversy would generate publicity.

    If they really wanted to shut down MM’s minor popularity, they would have had the 65-year old buying tour T-shirts and really embracing the scene.

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  75. indeed.

    Once again Christian knee-jerk folks wasting their time and energy on a group of people whose goal it is to get a reaction from us mundane types.
    The irony of the two caricatures having this tussle is embarrassing on both sides.

    The protesters should be picketing TBN et al.

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  76. Mr. Spencer,
    First off I’d like to say hello!!!! It’s been a very long time since Bible class! In relation to your question I think one should be open to the Holy Spirit and hopefully words of hope and encouragement and salvation could be delivered without an us against you mentality! Coming from an attitude seeking that kind of entertainment, dress code, lifestyle or persona whether it be goth or punk or metal, I’ve been there not only as a participant but also as the entertainer on stage performing and music is at the forefront! Kids listen to musical trends and fallow the genre that possibly gives them the most sense of belonging to a group that they feel they can relate to. Telling people that a musical style or fashion trend or anything related to all these things are wrong, only turns people away from what really is important! The action of nonjudgmental acceptance and love for people no matter what can speak in magnificent volumes. I would invite them to a show of absolute undeniable metal prowess like “August Burns Red”,”Mychildren Mybride”,”the Famine”,”Impending Doom”, “A Plea for Purging”, “Oh,Sleeper”,”Haste the Day”,”War of Ages” among many other amazing Christian bands. Come with my crew and be accepted. There is always room for another in the Army Of God and we want your lost and tired and sick! Even people who like make up!!!!!!!!!!lol!
    Scarred from sacrifice

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  77. salvation has as much to do with this life as it does with life after death. Or life after life after death for that matter.

    also the Celtic Way of Evangelism is a fantastic book. And a quick read at 144 pages.

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  78. I’m sorry, but I’m afraid that another, “Whatever” is in order here. Your audience does not respond well to Christian propaganda.

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  79. Whether Francis said it or not is irrelevant really. People in America have ‘heard it all before’. They need to see it at work.

    Let’s quote another wise man. Andrew Jones via twitter:
    “Too many teachers, too few fathers.; no wonder we have become a church with a big head and a small heart.”

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  81. Plenty of C&W artists could use protests at their concerts as well, if these people are protesting anti-Christian behavior.

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  84. Scotty,
    Well said. I really want to follow Christ’s command to go and make disciples, but I don’t believe that proselytizing is really what Jesus intended. I *do* believe that all people will eventually be judged and if they haven’t received Christ, they will face eternal separation from God; however, I don’t think I was called to be that judge. Consider, for example, John 12:46-48

    “I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”

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  85. im so sorry for the misinterpretation of jesus all of you had at one time or another.But the facts remain the same no matter what you do.the only way to Godand heaven is through Jesus Christ himself and in order to do that you have to be completely sincere and ask Jesus to wash your sins away and to forgive your evil and sinful ways.once that is done then go and live your life by going the way Jesus did.Find a true church and surround yourself with god loving and fearing people.yes fearing not to be afraid but knowing he can devastate your life and to fear him in that way which will lead to even more of a worshipful attitude that every day we have all we need plus the extras he allows us to have we should bow and give thanks.

    as for all these deluded poor souls they need to realize that God doesnt let them down man does it.God does all his things he does for us in His time Not ours.Remember also that badhappens to good people or old people or just about everyone because God gave free will.which means if the devil puts a terrible idea of say killing someone in someones mind that is as tiny as a grain of rice then that person either does the wrong thing and pulls a trigger or strangles or whatever that results in a death or deaths of people.or they choose the right and throws the thought out prays about it tells thier church family so they can help him by praying and counseling.God doesnt allow all the rapes murders atrocities against children women old people or men He simply allows us to choose Him or satan.just because people who are so imperfect and sinful let you down dissapoint you or just plain disgust you or worse yet hurt you just remember its not our loving caring awesome merciful God it is the will of people to choose bad over good.to impart evil to you instead of goodness into your life.love everyone because thats the highest priority on Gods and Jesus’s commandments.these men need to grow up and take up the mantle for Gods sake so in the end there wont be anyone in hell i pray. praise be to God the Holiest of the Holy The most Highest power in the land and to you Christ Jesus you I stand in awe of and thank you

    bu

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  87. *To Marilyn Manson, Forgive us. – the Church*

    I’m sure I’m on the verge of really annoying people and/or being accused of thread-monopolization here but here goes again: Scott, that’s like saying, “Coca-Cola Corporation, Forgive Us”. Whatever else MM is, he is notnotNOT a sincere creature. He’s a market animal. There was a niche of “downer” teenagers to be sold CDs (back when CDs could still be sold) and bad T-shirts and overpriced tickets and he filled it.
    There’s no “rebellion” worthy of the name going on here: It’s all a very contained capitalist transaction between a businessman and his customers.

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  89. the ad: To Marilyn Manson, Forgive us. – the Church

    Actually I say scrap the ad and follow Debbie’s example. Or Jesus’. They are the same in my belief.

    I thought the Kingdom functions like a mustard seed or yeast. i think i read that somewhere.

    If we are really concerned about these people and not just being righteous we need to be patient and let the Spirit do it’s work. We seem so concerned with getting folks across this line in a hurry and should be more about them walking a path with Jesus and us. That line will get crossed on the way. I pray we have more faith in the Lord to save us (and us includes MM/Brian and his fans) and keep us than in the real enemy to mislead us.

    We are asking people to trust in a God they don’t believe in. So first we need them to trust us. And they will never do that unless we get to know each other. Eventually they will come to realize that it is Christ in us that they trust because without him we would be untrustworthy.

    A wise man once said, “Preach the Gospel every day – sometimes use words.”

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  90. *…but just as we should not be using and exploiting our youth for those tactics I think it is just as unwise to say our kids should attend these concerts that are offensvie by any sane person’s standards…*

    I still don’t get it: Why is this even considered to rise to the level of ethics or morality? *No one* of any religious or philosophical should go to a Marilyn Manson concert because *he’s not a very good musician*.

    You don’t even need to go to the Bible or the Qur’an or principles of hospitality or discernment or anything else: Mere *aesthetics* are a more than adequate guard against any “danger” in this case. I think it’s unavoidable: The more people hear of MM, the faster they’ll come to dislike him. If MM is the ambassador of demonic forces, then we have NOTHING to worry about: Satan’s clearly fielding the scrub team.

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  91. I would say to the fans, “Why? What about MM’s music makes you want to spend the evening with it?”
    And, no, I am not spending my Dollars voting for this guy. And I don’t think missionary dating is a good idea either.

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  92. …wait…I have to ask my sister…I can’t remember if I have it right whether he started or ended at GlenOak. Either way, he was not at HCS the whole time. He was at GlenOak long enough that a lot of folks consider him coming from *that* school and not HCS.

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  95. Hi iMonk…

    Actually, I’m from Canton, OH, too, and have a little insider info. This guy graduated from GlenOak, a very large PUBLIC high school…the same HS I graduated from, and he was in my little sister’s class. He was pretty unremarkable in those days.

    I think it is really stretching it to say this guy was a possible “result” of fundamentalism. He had a grandfather who was wicked and used to mas******* in front of him in the basement of their home. His parents, as you said, with Catholic & Episcopalian background…in what universe is that “fundamental.” I know the churches in that area and none of the Catholic or Episcopal ones would fit the fundie description.

    Heritage Christian school would be moreso, that is true…but with the family issues and the fact that he didn’t even attend there during his whole school years (not even close), I think it’s pushing it to make this association. The guy is actually a pretty sad character. I feel sorry for him.

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  96. D&D was/is awesome and i think on a totally different level than Goth fashion statements. When someone dresses goth, including the MM crowd, it can either be a bit of fun and experimenting with identity, or, if you really go all out with it, letting a fashion trend speak for you and conforming to it’s mask of identity.

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  98. I can only assume that since the name “Leroy Jenkins” is a popular internet meme, this is all straight faced tongue in cheek “poke the bear” irony meant to see what kind of responses it would get.

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  104. I think we are losing a little balance in some of the comments. Angry picket in your face tactics are not very effective and yes they do not do a good job of showing the love of Christ, but just as we should not be using and exploiting our youth for those tactics I think it is just as unwise to say our kids should attend these concerts that are offensvie by any sane person’s standards so that they can be “Christ at meal with the publicans.”

    There is a differnce in teaching your children that when you encounter someone that may be “Goth” or “alternative” to treat them with the love and respect that Christ commands towards all, but to imply that our children should somehow join in with this culture to be the “leaven” within is just as unwise as teaching them a bunker fundie mentality.

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  106. Actually Alice Cooper is a Christian who donates a lot of time and money to Christian causes. He was given an honorary doctorate from Grand Canyon University (a Baptist school) because of all the money he has donated to them. Plus Alice Cooper and his wife are active members of their church. A friend of mine used to attend the same church and flipped out the first time he went to a service and saw Alice Cooper with his family sitting two rows ahead of him.

    I saw an interview with Alice Cooper and they were talking about MM. Alice basically said that he told MM to learn to turn off the MM routine or it would drive him crazy. He said that the only time he is “Alice Cooper” is when he is onstage performing, once he gets off stage he is just another middle aged guy with a penchant for playing golf. But MM tries to live the Marilyn Manson persona 24/7 and it is not very healthy.

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  108. “Greetings from from the Sword of Joshua Independent Fundamental Seeker-Sensitive Assembly”
    ” We’re All Stars Now In the Dope Show”

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  109. Yup. If this is the message being delivered, someone should call Satan and tell him his services won’t be needed tonight. He can feel free to pop a couple of brews and catch up on his TiVo.

    Michael, you do have the patience of Job. With friends like these…

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  111. *…is instead of protesting, buy a ticket or two, go inside and rock a little.*

    Sorry to serial-post but I can’t let this go: Marilyn Manson *does not rock*. He is lame. He always was lame, but he puffed himself up on shock value for a while and rode that to a kind of corn-syrup, faux-quasi-notoriety for a while. He is *not* in any way countercultural but is instead exactly as plastic and bought-and-paid-for as the Jonas Brothers or Britney Spears or any other “pop” artist. He doesn’t play music but rather plays a TYPE of music. He doesn’t have fans but rather has a TYPE of fans.

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  112. *The Rapture of the Church is about to take place, then the Anti-Christ will appear as a world ruler under a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT AND RELIGION, You will be forced to receive a mark to buy or sell anything vital for life, you will be forced to worship this Demon possessed ruler…*

    Wow. Not even mixing it with water but just swallowing the Kool-Aid uncut aren’t we.

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  113. *Open Mic at the iMonk Cafe: What Would You Say to the Marilyn Manson Audience?*

    Easy: “1995 Called: They Want Their Momentary Evening-News Filler-Piece Back”

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  116. Tom Cruise actually makes a lot of sense. I saw him on “Oprah”–he sure seemed spirit-filled and full of energy. I think I’ll check out that church of his.

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  121. “Whatever.”

    You’re just not getting the point, are you? You have just perfectly painted the caricature your audience expects.

    When you get in someone’s face, your nose three inches from his, and loudly declare, “It’s my way or the highway!” do not fool yourself into thinking you’ve given them two choices. You’ve given them a huge number of choices, with the ones at the top of the desirability list including myriad forms of physical assault on your person. The way to approach this is like Fr. Ernesto and Bob and Tulsaman and others above – not with a hell’s fire and brimstone sermon, but with humility and grace.

    Hmm… humility and grace. Seems there was a chap who was all about that – about 2000 years ago. Now what was his name again?

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  124. REPENT! Time is short and Satan will attempt to destroy you because you are made in the likeness of God Himself! You are the most important creation of God and Satan wants you to fail, to miss the mark,to perish in Hell for eternity and never escape the torment of where the worm dies not!

    PREPARE TO MEET GOD, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand ! Look around, Everything which was prophesied is coming to pass day after day,faster and faster, There is not much time left ! Jesus is KING! Satan will attempt to trick you by using signs and lying wonders to deceive many ! The Rapture of the Church is about to take place, then the Anti-Christ will appear as a world ruler under a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT AND RELIGION, You will be forced to receive a mark to buy or sell anything vital for life, you will be forced to worship this Demon possessed ruler, IF you receive the mark you will perish and be damned to HELL forever. TURN TO JESUS and REPENT! We were all born in sin and there is only one way to escape our punishment for mankind’s rebellion which is to accept Christ Jesus as the sacrifice. Jesus Died for YOU and He is in Heaven now through His RESURRECTION..REPENT and let Jesus Save you from Hell and the torment of Satan or Lucifer the enemy of your soul and of God! God Loves You! Please Repent,for your own sake! Repent before it is too late, Time is too short to be wrong about God and Satan has confused many,many millions of people, DON’T BE TRICKED BY SATAN! Repent!

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  125. Lucifer will seek to confuse you of the truth. Lucifer wants you to fail and not reap the rewards of eternal life in Heaven with God! Jesus will accept you as you are..You just have to accept His sacrifice of His death and resurrection. Read the Bible, Everything that was predicted is coming to the earth right now! Lucifer is going to send delusion by offering himself as mankind’s creator, he will use trickery and lies and great wonders to cause the greatest lie ever and cause many to fall into hell with him. Hell is eternal, there are no reprieves,YOU DON’T GET OUT OF HELL! Satan wants you to fail because God LOVES YOU and sent His only Son to die for you. REPENT of your SIN,Seek the truth which is in Christ Jesus!I challenge you!! Search it out, Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies concerning the Messiah. He came as a lamb but will return as a LION and He will strike down all evil works. I don’t judge anyone, I tell you all this because I love you, because I once was you! Jesus LOVES YOU and He wants to bless you and save you from eternal hell fire!

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  126. Repent for the time is at hand..Time will meet an end and a new beginning! Satan is real, evil is real, and Christ is real. We were born into sin and not by our own hand. Lucifer was a fallen angel and lost his place in the Kingdom of Heaven, Adam was given the reigns of earth and Lucifer swore to destroy what God loved. Mankind! Lucifer caused mankind to sin by offering knowledge we were not supposed to have as a new creation. The knowledge of Good and Evil was set aside for God to distribute as He wanted. Lucifer caused Adam to sin,bringing death upon mankind. Jesus was born to take away the punishment for mankind’s rebellion. It was not our fault personally but we were born into it anyway. Jesus has made intercession for our sin by the shedding of His blood and His death. All we have to do is accept His sacrifice of blood and death and His Resurrection. Satan/Lucifer has been judged and all unsaved will reap the same reward of eternal separation from God in hell.

    Jesus LOVES you and died for you! REPENT and be saved,Repent and be born again! Live righteously not by your own power but by the Spirit of Jesus Christ because HE is the only perfect one!REPENT and be made whole! The END IS NOW!

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  127. I wouldn’t make the ad.

    If I’m to believe Manson’s story of himself, his mistreatment, and ultimately his decision to denounce Christians and Christ; and If I’m to assume he’s of sound mind, articulate, all laudings above, etc.; then I must conclude that he’s read the Gospels and if they didn’t make him choose Christ then my ad–sure as Hell–won’t.

    I’m willing to love my neighbor, and I’m willing to be Manson’s neighbor. I’m not going to be his spiritual Wal-Mart.

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  129. I second that. This is one of the few actual compassionate, un-dismissive or un-hateful, and Christ centered anwers i’ve seen. Rhetoric and and arguing NEVER work. Acts of kindness DEFINITELY do. Debbie, i like your style and this answer will actually stick with me.

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  130. Am I missing part of the article? What were the protestors going on about? It seemed like a three paragraph “hey there were protestors” blurb followed by 25 pictures of rock vs religion moments over the past 30 years, but nothing specific about Manson’s background that made the protestors protest. He looks like a young Alice Cooper and is professionally depressed. I’m sorry he is so unhappy and self-destructive (see here: http://www.watoday.com.au/entertainment/behind-the-makeup-of-marilyn-manson-20090829-f32h.html?page=1).

    So what I would put in an ad is:
    What is all the fuss about?

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  132. aaaaaa haaaaaaaaa. i truly think that was brilliant. if anyone read marilyn manson’s biography, they would understand why the things he represents seems so disturbing. there are horrific details of things that he saw as a child, and how twisted things became on his outlook on christianity and american principles in that biography. we as christians are not to judge or condemn, but to teach and show examples of God and his UNCONDITIONAL love. the damage that was done to make his outlook the way it is was not his fault, it is just the only way he can make sense of the senselessness he was taught and exposed to. IN GODS TIME BRIAN WILL SEE THE TRUTH.

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  133. dear mm fan
    its really none of my business what kind of music you like, be it polka or ska or whatever.
    i like the hives the beatles and bach myself. maybe you just like mm’s vibe or the theatrics of his stage show, or never knowing what crazy sh*t stunt he will pull next. if that is the case, you can quit reading now, i got nothing to say to you.
    but if you really dig the fact that he loves telling god to F*** off, and that encourages you to do the same, remember this:

    right now, god is awfully fond of you, and mm too

    but if you guys keep this up…… god will be waiting for you with open arms

    if you dare to continue to spit in his eye and curse him, know that he is waiting to pay you back

    with a loving embrace
    with a place at his table

    he has no pride he has no shame he will never stop loving you he will never stop holding his door open to you
    because
    he is awfully fond of you

    and because i am an adopted kid of his
    i feel the same way

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  134. Mike: My daughter would be one of those people you describe in your P.S. She’s a believer, loves her black clothes and listens to bands I can’t stand. But she shows Christ’s love better than I do, more often than not.

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  136. Mine would say something like, “I apologize for being here, protesting you for feeling hurt and alienated rather than protesting at a football game against both real life violence and those clean cut, fine young Americans that insult, ridicule, and beat you on a regular basis.”

    From personal experience, I’ll say that the best way to straighten out a Goth kid is to give him some college debt and a mortgage.

    …and, to both confess and show my age, Bauhaus and the Cure both put on great concerts.

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  137. And as far as what i would say to the protesters. I would tell them, Honstly this protest will get you nowhere! if you truely want to make a difference, go home get on your face and pray for MM. Earnestly! Fast, pray, intercede! Thats wat will make a difference. Whether you believe it or not, prayer changes things!

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  138. To the attendees of this concert- I apologize. Please, I beg you to forgive and prove you are more righteous and loving than these pathetic protestors. Sadly, very few Christians know much about the “faith” they profess and bang you over the head with. You have just witnessed a perfect example of self important zealots who love to point out everyone else’s sins, but are blind to their own. Jesus had some great words for such people. I ask you to check them out and see if Jesus is being grossly misrepresented by many of those who claim to be his followers. I suspect you’ll be surprised by what He says. Matt. 7:1-5, Luke 6:39-42
    (If you really ARE masochistic, more examples of this kind of blindness are posted @ https://internetmonk.com/archive/open-mic-at-the-imonk-cafe-what-would-you-say-to-the-marilyn-manson-audience#respond) The Old Testament had a lot of similar people. They were called Pharisees. Their morning prayer began, “I thank you God, that I’m not a Gentile, a slave or a woman.” They continued, “I thank you God, that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers or like these sinners”. Jesus had no use for them then, and neither does He now. They don’t represent Him, nor do they know Him. Forgive them, but check out the man Christ Jesus, the merciful, just, kind, forgiving, restoring Great Physician, who died to express His Love for you and take your sins. He doesn’t condemn you. He says, “Come and learn of me, and you’ll find rest for your soul”.

    *********************************************************************************************

    And now for you “funny” morons who have such a lack of compassion for the lost, I leave you with something to consider.

    “He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you, but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? Micah 6:8

    “The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 2 Corinthians 5:17b-19

    Don’t you get it people? He, God, is no longer IMPUTING sins, not counting them against us! Why do you insist on putting them back on people as a burden? Perhaps you simply aren’t capable of carrying the message of reconciliation. Or is the message of judgment just more comfortable for you, Pharisee?

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  139. The way I see it is that a long time ago a bright young man, yes bright, in some manner of speeking got hurt and eventualy pushed away any and all “helping” hands. Obiously he made the decision to coinside wat man does with who God is. God is love, and regardless of where he is right now God still loves him, and until the day that Brian takes his last breath, God will always be at the door knocking! Its the same for all of Gods children including Jason, iMonk, Mike Westfall, and so on and so forth! All he wants is a relationship with us! Its not about religious practices, or denominations, or anything that has nothing to do with living, loving, and forgiving as Jesus Christ did for each and everyone of us. Its about a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. And just like God wants that with you and I, He also wants that with Brian (aka MM). Im sorry to ramble, my wife says i do that alot! But I just felt like I needed to say something. God Bless!

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  140. The way I see it is that a long time ago a bright young man, yes bright, in some manner of speeking got hurt and eventualy pushed away any and all “helping” hands. Obiously he made the decision to coinside wat man does with who God is. God is love, and regardless of where he is right now God still loves him, and until the day that Brian takes his last breath, God will always be at the door knocking! Its the same for all of Gods children including Jason, iMonk, Mike Westfall, and so on and so forth! All he wants is a relationship with us! Its not about religious practices, or denominations, or anything that has nothing to do with living, loving, and forgiving as Jesus Christ did for each and everyone of us. Its about a RELATIONSHIP with Christ. And just like God wants that with you and I, He also wants that with Brian (aka MM). Im sorry to ramble, my wife says i do that alot! But I just felt like I needed to say something. God Bless!

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  144. I don’t think you’ve heard me “denounce” fundamentalists. Fundamentalism is a theological stance, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do good things. Nothing about fundamentalism requires that someone be mean, etc.

    I’m not a fundamentalist by the way and I don’t teach it, but I have no problem with fundamentalists having schools that offer a good education. I have to deal with some of the things that turn Brian into MM, but they aren’t inevitably part of the system.

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  146. I would say, “you work so hard to be countercultural; but if you really want to reject culture, follow Jesus. He was crucified because the religious people of his time thought he was from Satan and called himself God.”

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  148. It sounds as though you are denouncing fundamentalist schools, yet you work at one. How do you reconcile that? This is not intended to be confrontational, more curiosity than anything.

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  149. hey guys, look these days everybody protests everything, and almost every belief system seems to spawn zealots of some sort… Look at Tom Cruise… Who da thunk? anyways… don’t take the protestors to heart, they are no better than you are, God loves you no matter what you do… so give him a chance…. and no you don’t have to act like the crazy protesters… you might actually be able to help them find out what God is really all about.

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  152. I find it ironic that christians seem to believe that God is most offended only by those who are ostentatiously against Him. Forget your average pagan on the street who dresses like you, talks and acts like, drinks the same starbucks as you, probably lives on your street and drives the same car as you…or is it the other way around? No, that’s too convicting.

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  154. Why do we need to say anything to those attendees in particular? What exactly are we ASSUMING that they doing wrong inside? Listening to music from a guy who is on the wrong side of some issues? Was there ritual sacrifice going on? Orgies?

    The fact that anyone other than MM’s fans and possibly their parents know what his shows are about is the begining of the problem here.

    Having attended anumber of other bands’ concerts myself, I might recommend earplugs and to not actually touch anything in the bathroom other than yourself.

    I’ve heard MM in inteviews on the local radio and saw him is Bowling For Columbine. Seems like a nice enough guy and very articulate.

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  155. At least it looks like the person is a real person and not some kind of Stepford person. Many of the people I know swear as a habitual matter of course, without intent to shock, simply as a way of speaking.

    Cursing, is another matter though, isn’t that wishing evil on another person and invoking spirits or the almighty to do it?

    Cursing is rude and ironic (if the person is of an Abrahamic faith), I’m not so sure that swearing (salty language) is all that offensive.

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  156. I’m glad whoever that person was, that she (or he) was there. And I’m glad you play that forward. It’s good to know.

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  157. For whatever reason, everyone who posts something snide or a putdown reminds me a bit of the part in the Bible where Jesus says “As you do for the least of my children….” and the sheep and the goats. Teens are so sensitive and raw. Witty clever disses seem the opposite of showing Christly love.

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  159. Well, that song “Lola” is clearly depicting acts of depravity what with the dancing, boozing, and killing and all.

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  160. This really happened, btw. I was the kid who got sick. It was an Aerosmith concert in 1981. I wouldn’t let her drive me home, though. That memory, though fuzzy for obvious reasons, stayed w/ me. Since giving Jesus the reigns, I’ve attended several concerts (including every concert my kids attend) looking for opportunities.

    We’re not going to make a dent in the world w/o getting our hands dirty:
    “Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.” 1 John 3:18

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  162. I was very impressed with him in “Bowling for Columbine.” He was one of the more reasonable voices interviewed. He really had a lot to say about bullies and about just surviving until you graduate ’cause once you’re out of high school, no one will ever treat you that badly again.

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  163. I live with and am helping to raise a teenager who is actively and openly hostile to Christians- she identifies as goth, she identifies as queer, and she feels a lot of anger and rage towards what she perceives as Christians judgmentalism and sanctimoniousness. This is a young woman who has experienced a lot of loss and poor treatment in her life, some of it in part from her family who identifies as Christian (and it’s worth noting that while I’m standing in as a parent for her, I’m not related to her- she is my friend’s little sister).

    With that said, when a pair of Mormon Missionaries came to our door last Christmas season, just after Proposition 8 had passed in California (which she felt passionately about, and cried passionately over when it passed), she surprised me by inviting them in, making them hot cocoa, and sitting down and actively talking (and listening) to them for over an hour. She was articulate about her own beliefs, but extremely respectful, and really open to listening to them. Afterwards I congratulated her for her willingness to listen and be a gracious host to people who she disagreed with. She said that it was the first time in her life a Christian had approached her in a respectful way, and that of course she wanted to respond by being respectful in turn. She also said she was really interested in understanding why these young men believed in what they did, and that while they didn’t persuade her to their beliefs, she felt she could understand, a bit, what Mormonism meant to them.

    I would not call myself a Christian, but Christianity is important to me, and I want to see it bear beautiful fruit. I don’t think teenagers (or anyone) needs gimmicks- I think they need to be heard and respected, and treated with respect and a degree of willingness to engage with the otherness. The two Mormon gentlemen did that beautiful in my home, and my teenager responded in turn. It seems a good lesson, I think.

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  164. I would simply say Mr. Manson, I really liked you in Wonder Years. 🙂

    FYI there is a persistant urban legend that MM is Paul from Wonder Years.

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  167. You know what group is really whack? Insane Clown Posse. One fan even arranged an ICP-themed funeral for her baby:

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  168. “If you attended the MM concert and were offended by the Christian protesters, try to be a little tolerant and forgiving of them. They were just trying to convey to you their belief that MM concert-goers seem to focus on death and might have a tendency to worship Satan. Though their approach could have been less judgmental and more graceful, they were just trying to tell you how much God and Jesus can save you from whatever darkness you might find yourself in, be it spiritual, physical, emotional…whatever. I would love to enter into an open, non-judgmental, non-threatening, graceful dialog and conversation with any of you who were offended, to provide you with perhaps a more loving, merciful image of who God is, and why I’ve put my faith in Jesus Christ. Peace. Out.”

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  170. I’m sure you were bummed by the “Christians” that were protesting the concert. “Christians” for the most part bum me out, too. I’ve just been embarassed until recently to admit it. I’m a Christian and I don’t have a church. Can’t find where I belong. Until I do my NA, (Narcotics Anonymous), group IS my church. There is alot of humbleness and service going on there.

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  171. These could be my kids! What I would do, and what I hope any other responsible lover of Jesus would do, is instead of protesting, buy a ticket or two, go inside and rock a little. If memory serves, there will be limitless opportunities to be Jesus while you are there. My message would be:

    I was the one that carried you to the ladies room and helped you clean up after you got sick and gave you a ride home. Jesus asked me to stand in for Him that day, so I did. He said to tell you He loves you.

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  172. What I’d say: “I am sorry for the pain and shitty example of a God that cares & exists to love…at least I hope he does. Jesus loves you, but remember; those who claim to have faith are just as f**ked up as those who aren’t sure; not to make any excuses.”

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  175. The 19 year old son of a friend of mine is into a lot of things. His comment was not to bother with any ad because he and his friends would all know that our only motivation would be to take them away from the things they like.

    So, I am not sure an ad directed to a particular group, such as that stadium crowd, would be effective.

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  176. I would say, “Marilyn. I could have sworn you retired a long time ago. That is until I read this story about Christians protesting your concert. And you thought religion never did any good….. See God is showing you some ironic love and you don’t even recognize it!”

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  177. Call attention to it and more will follow. For most its a phase, just like it was for me with Alice Cooper (anybody remember Billion Dollar Babies?) and Black Sabbath. Don’t listen to either now. But I still listen to Jethro Tull’s Aqualung – an album that was very anti-church establishment and yet I thought the lyrics were compelling.

    So… I’m not sure I would say anything for now. Bowie probably looked pretty funny to my parents too (especially in the Ziggy years)…

    Also – if I can recall the mood of some of the more radical concerts of my youth – I believe someone who was pretty hopped up might not behave too well if someone their age was smacking them with scripture and passing judgement on them…

    Just an observation…

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  178. I would take a sign and stand amongst the protesters that read:

    “Picket sign protesters are rotten intolerant people who never help anyone!”

    The irony being, of course, that I am using a picket sign to communicate the message 😛
    Now that I think about that, I really want to make the sign and keep it in my car so I can join the next picket group I see regareless of cause…

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  181. “Arthur Brown”

    Seriously, there’s no point in protesting at a rock concert. I think it reinforces the idea that the people there are worse than the average non-believer. (And yes, we are all sinners, I’m just talking about protesting and who’s not going to be with God when they die, etc.)

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  182. The only thing that I would say to him is let him know I’m a christian. Let him see that I’m not just trying to chalk another convert up. I’d rather just ask him to make his judgments about Christians who live like we’re supposed to, not live like christians say we’re supposed to.

    I think people could be reached so much better, if instead of, talking talking talking, they just showed people the way to be a christian by doing it themselves.

    PS, I know many of people who consider themselves christians who dress in all black, listen to music that sounds like screaming and would probably make most fundies try and witness to them.

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  183. Between the two of us, I’d say I agree with you. For the record, I’d say you’re proving their (and my) point.

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  185. “Hi, is Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals or Golden Age his best?”… and then duck 🙂

    Seriously though, I am a metaller, I like alot of Manson’s work, as well as other much more extreme metal and a wide variety of music besides. I have to agree with what Matt said above that the audience ‘contains a significant number of people who have been emotionally, spiritually, and in some cases physically brutalized by “Christians”’.

    Also they are mainly teenager (if in mind if not just age), and saying “get a life”, or “ozzy did it better” will just sound patronising, and exactly what they expect from someone who “doesn’t get them”. The best way I have found to reach this and its similar tribes is to be a part of them, to draw alongside and through example and opportunity show them who Jesus really is and why it matters.

    Anyway, thats just a few random and disconnected thoughts, back to some Demon Hunter and WoW 🙂

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  186. A brief aside. Marilyn Manson (and every one of his band members) chose their names by conjoining a sex symbol and a serial killer. Twiggy Ramirez, for example…

    Why? Apparently it’s a commentary on how we conjoin sex and violence in our culture.

    Source: Fresh Air interview with MM. He’s smarter than some here are giving him credit for.

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  187. To certain Christians: When does being a Christian give you the right to be hateful to people who reject the faith? Keep it up. I’m sure you’ll influence a lot of people positively for Christ. (Yeah right- 90%of my witnessing involves trying to undo what you guys have done. Check with Jesus about loving your (perceived) enemies.)

    MM: I am sure you have seen some really ugly stuff in the name of Christ. Believe me when I say that its not all like that. There is way more to it. I’m sorry your experience thus far has been bad.

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  188. It’s such a shame–she could be so pretty, all she needs is a little make-up, and…what’s that you say? Whoops, my bad.

    Okay, this guy’s obviously a showman. He’s named himself after two great Satanists, Charles Manson and…Marilyn Monroe? Well, okay, one Satanist and one Kennedy Democrat. (Not that I’m judging–she probably didn’t even realize he was filming her.)

    You know, I don’t think these guys–weren’t there supposed to be three of them? No, that’s the Hansens. Anyway, I don’t think this young man really does worship Satan. I think he worships Mammon. (Go look it up in your D&D book, kiddies.)

    But seriously now: I’ve seen real evil, and chances are you have too (or will soon enough). Real evil isn’t cool or sexy. Real evil involves human suffering and ruined lives, not dressing up in black clothing or shocking your mother. This guy…well, people used to say the Beatles were Satanic, and now they’re on Muzac. Just wait a few years, he’ll mellow out like Ozzy did.

    By the way, I hope you know that this guy’s Satanic guru–the late Anton Szandor LaVey, founder of San Francisco’s Church of Satan–lied about almost every aspect of his biography. He’s really just some kid who never left his mom’s house–just painted it black when she died. Is that really worth paying a couple hundred dollars to get a membership card?

    Rock on, dears.

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  191. If I may be so bold as to define some of the parameters you are dealing with:

    Remember, the core audience you are trying to reach contains a significant number of people who have been emotionally, spiritually, and in some cases physically brutalized by “Christians”. They view Christians as sanctimonious and hypocritical, and as a malevolent, insatiable hunter of souls to devour, indoctrinate, and homogenize much like the Borg.

    What would you say, taking this into account?

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  192. Dear Marilyn,

    You’re probably right for rejecting “Christianity” – at least for rejecting what poses as Christianity these days.

    But please give Jesus an honest chance – you’ll find that there are people out there who actually follow his teachings (though most of the churches that bear His name tend to have their own agendas).

    His way of living will bring you way more peace, love, and joy than what Christian poseurs or self-centered living can offer. Please give the real Jesus a chance…

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  194. I understand why you think these are hypocrites who just want to limit your freedom.
    They make you feel worthless until you repent.
    Your exposure to Christianity may have been rife with sanctimoniousness and a lack of graciousness.
    Yet the Firecore of the universe still bids you to enter into his love.
    Your Maker has done what no mere flesh and blood can do: give of himself for your eternal good.
    He considers you worthy because he made you and this is why he works to draw you back.
    He is the Firecore indeed, which is why we must all be cleansed before we can enter into his love.
    Nonetheless, he wants you to enter into his very own life.
    Come back to him. Come back to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    Come back to the deep places of reality in God himself.
    Come back to true freedom.

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  196. Good ideas Giovanni and Martha! -I’ve always felt the best way to express Jesus’ love to people was to mock them. This is especially true the younger they are. Teenagers, as we know, have no major identity issues, and therefore the music they listen to is never all that important to them. Here’s my attempt:

    Dear Losers:

    I have been saved from a cesspool of my own making, by a grace I didn’t want or know, through no work of my own. As a result, I am better than you. Your music sucks, because I don’t like it, you’re make up is cheesy, because I say it is, and you should probably snap out of it, buy a Third Day CD (I REALLY like them!), and perhaps smile more. Though you may object that I don’t understand your life, I frankly don’t need to. Now, if you could say something involving a profanity to me, that would be great, as I can tell all my church friends I’m being persecuted for the Gospel.

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  198. Seen it all before, darlings, with the New Romantics. Ah, Visage, The Damned, The Cult (started off as Southern Death Cult), the Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie and the Banshees… happy days, happy days 🙂

    Much prefer Depeche Mode’s original “Personal Jesus” (and I remember when they were five nice boys from Basildon, before the cross-dressing, S&M, and heroin overdoses); cover version did nothing new.

    Really liked the video for “The Beautiful People” and the deconstruction of the original Willy Wonka film, though, Brian.

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  199. Your music sucks and its a poor excuse of what passes for real Heavy Metal.

    Oh and your make up only scares 13 year old kids.

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