Riffs: 11:23:09: Required Behavior Modification and the Gospel

139 thoughts on “Riffs: 11:23:09: Required Behavior Modification and the Gospel”

1. Pingback: Church and liquidity: Does the gospel of the church reflect or inform culture in America? « blog at the theotryst:a blog on Jesus Christ bursting forth in Word and sacrament and why we become what we receive

2. have you been baptized tim? that is not hearsay.

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3. noooooooo1 not ‘advice’. . when you hear “the law”, mentally substitute the phrase “will of God ” and see what happens. and then think of the “will of God in christ” which perfectly connects the two in the very incarnate body and life of Jesus.

   pagans can and DO keep the SAME will of god as christians are supposed to . they often do it better. this is worked by the holy spirit in them by the same law that christians are supposed to use to dicipline , make themselves into living sacrifices, run the face, folloiw Jesus as example, and even my favorite LAW saying ” you SHOULD do good works purely out of gratitude for what Jesus did for you.” I don’t do that. LAW. of course double down with st James. they are all doing law. carrot and stick. fear and reward. pagans can do all of it without faith using free will and elbow grease. trying harder. being purpose driven.

   only the holy spirit, through the preaching of the gospel , creates faith in both pagans and christians, and only this preaching can increase in any way sanctification IF what is meant by sanctification is our new mans will now being conforned to Gods will. if it means outward righteousness, then NO faith is really necessary for that. Gods will being done looks always the same. it looks exactly like gods will being done. whether pagan or christian as the actor.

   there are not two wills of god. there is only one. and only seeing that will of God IN CHRIST makes any of it truly not be a very scary thing.

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4. look for where this is all about Jesus.

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5. “.C. Ryle wrote: “(e) Both [justification and sactification] are alike necessary to salvation. No one ever reached heaven without a renewed heart as well as forgiveness, without the Spirit’s grace as well as the blood of Christ”

   truth . all of it. where he goes wrong is in what follows. why? justification , faith and sanctification are all gifts of God. true that faith and sanctification are both something that happens IN us and does not save, and justification happens fully OUTSIDE of us and is ALL that can save.

   but if these are ALL gifts and not something we can initiate or create but must be created, automatically, without effort, by the holy spirit and hearing the gospel, then where then is the hornets nest other than that JC ryle, in error, things sanctification is something we can improve with effort (ie LAW!).

   simple fact: ANY message that tells anyone how they should act, pagan OR chistian is LAW LAW LAW. so if we want to callt the result of doing the law ‘sactification’ then lets be clear that is what we are doing. in THAT case , pagans can be just as ‘sanctified’ as christians can be.. OUTWARDLY this is completely true!

   The ONLY difference between christian and pagan is faith in Jesus Christ . period. and this is NOTa visible difference. Period. I would suggest that paul talks about sanctification as our inner new man’s will , insofar as we are regenerated, becomes conforned to Gods will. since we STILL have the old adam clinging to us this does not mean that we do not ALSO have the will power of the old adam fighting against our new will.

   jc ryle makes some terrible wrong turns. you are corect.

   ANY message that talks about how a christian OR pagan SHOULD act is law. this INCLUDES paul telling us to run the race, submitt our wills, discipline our bodies and selves, make ourselves living sacrafice. law law law. pagans CAN do ALL of this. they cannot have faith in christ. only the holy spirit through the gospel can do this. free will aka will power or decision cannot do this because it is the bondservant of sin.

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6. i think my previous posts in response to yours directly answer this question tim w.

   pagans and christians do the SAME will of God . christians according to their old adam and pagans, have righteousness wrung out of them by the sticks AND carrots (“blessed”) of the law. christians also, because they have faith/sanctification, now also do the SAME righteousness, but now, insofar as they are regenerated, they do this automatically, freely, out of a will now conformed to Gods will in exactly the same way Jesus, whos will was also conformed to Gods will did righteousness. and note that what Jesus did appeared unremarkable to those around him didnt it? that simple fact SHOULD really twist your mind a bit. It does mine! it overthrows all I think I know about what righteousness has to look like.

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7. excellent dear friend. back at ya!

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8. no. it would be wrong to separate justrification and sanctification, they must remain together since one flows from the other. faith and sanctification both flow from justificaion in the same way.

   but it is very good to distinguish the two.

   justification is gods will done outside of us and for is in christ.
   sanctiication is our wills conformed to Gods wil\ inside of us by faith from hearing we are justified.

   your behavior SHOULD be indistiguishable from that of a RIGHTEOUS unbeliever. the SAME will of God is required of both you and him and he can do all of that as good or better than you. Only the holy spirit can work faith in either of you. and this only through the hearing that you are justified.

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9. amen.

   sanctification and the ‘fruit of sanctification.”

   the new behavior happens automatically, without spiritual effort or spiritual pushups exactly like our Lord did good behavior. we don’t become MORE like Jesus. we become just like him here.

   unfortunately our old adam still clings to us, so we also do and will to do what our new nature wills against.

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10. pagans are FULLY capable of doing ALL the outward righteousness that ALL christians AND pagans are required to do using reason, will power, free will etc etc. you are so right. they often do it much better.

    the ONLY think they cannot with free will aka will power, because it is in bondage to sin and an enemy of God, is faith. inwardly keep the first table of the law. have a changed heart.

    whatever christians DO, ether by using the law to force the old adam to behave right, or automatically from sanctication and faith from a new nature conformed to Gods will insofar as he/she is regenerated is the same OUTWARD will of God being done by righteous pagans

    when paul or christians talk about discipline, mortification of flesh, be like jesus as example, reach for the crown, run the race, etc. this is NOT sanctificaion. this is us, now in cooperation with the the holy spirit , using the LAW to kill our flesh and force it into submission.

    sanctification and its fruit happen and are produced in exactly the SAME way faith is produced in christians. and it is complete and sufficient in the same sense and for the same reasons.

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11. bingo again.

    “love your neighbor as you love yourself ” simply is a command , from God, that MUST begin with you yes?

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12. bingo!

    I am starting to like you alot tim w! brutal honesty. hard to find these days,

    our brother overstated. and you are right, a loving fatherly god would not be that if he did not want our happiness . producttivity… eh… lilies of the field and birds of the air type of productivity why is that important to you?

    on the OTHER hand, we all know what God willed to happen to his only beloved son. nothing nice to look at. it only pushes my ‘happy ‘ button in a sorta odd way.

    the gospel is who jesus is, what he did, and why he did it.

    he did it so that you would be his own, and live under him in his kingdom and serve him in everlasting righteousness Tim. but this is only something you can know by faith and not by sight. why is it you NEED to SEE improvement? I am still not clear. yup. I am a little dense…

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13. justification = God’s will done, completely, in christ, outside of us and for us. not only by his death on the cross, but ALSO by his living a perfectly good life on our behalf and for our salvation. atonement= at one ment outside of us and for us. Only THIS saves.

    sanctification = faith = fruit of justification = a regenerate will conformed to Gods will . at one ment (but not atonement!) inside of us if you will.

    sanctification, like faith, is a gift of God, not of works (ie will power). it , along with it’s fruit happens spontaneously and without any need at all for spiritual pushups or exhortations or practice or even looking at christs example. Think of how Jesus simply did the law, without conscious effort, as a part of his nature. we christians, insofar as we are regenerate, do good works just like that!

    but we are still sinners. so we do those SAME good works, in our old adam, by the sticks AND carrots served up to us by the law. this is called the ‘mortification of the flesh” “sumitting ourselves” ” discipline” “running the race” . we here use the SAME LAW tools pagans use. will power. discipline. structure. reason

    what we CANNOT do with the law is faith and sanctification. only hearing the holy gospel AUTOMATICALLY does this for us.

    i hope that is clear and helps.

    it is a little different I think than you lay it out. correct me if I am wrong here dear brother!

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14. oy veh.!

    sanctified as ‘being healed” . try thinking of sanctification as faith in Jesus christ. the old you had to die for this to happen , not merely be “healed” think of church as hospice for the terminal and not hospital where a cure for sin is possible.

    “cheap grace” maybe you should buy a crucifix, hang it on your wall, and meditate looking at it at how “cheap” that grace looks. I am not reformed, but I don’t think Bonhoffer, as a lutheran, did anyone a favor by adopting this phrase following a ney york preachers coining of it.

    “this is the Good News that Jesus uses flawed people like us for his Kingdom. he took the Laws that we were slave to & made them into principles that we live by. and by obeying his principles with the knoledge of his forgiveness we are free. peace”

    do you DO this? or do you think God just wants you to try your best and hardest? what is the difference for you between laws and principles? i am sooo not following you.

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15. ah tim! that helps ALOT! the secret to a happy christian life? just live it. the purpose of life is to accept it as God’s gift and value every second. savor every second. Jesus yoke is light.

    my ego constantly hates the idea that there is no self agrandizing purpose to my life. A part of me deeply resent not standing out in a crowd. Jesus did not stand out did he? not even as a noticably “different ‘ little boy in the (probably) gossipy small town he grew up in. nope. utter ordinary. perfectly good.

    sometimes you will be happy. sometimes sad. sometimes good things will happen . sometimes. bad. everything will pass of you give it time. both good and bad.

    Jesus invites you to consider the lilies of the field and the birds of the air.

    the parables are a great way to try to practice living with the purpose of simply living. there you find a god who is bent not on being reasonably just but a god who is bent on being UNreasonably, outrageously good. not a great place to look for “rules” for a purposeful life, unless that purpose is simply to spread the joy.

    come visit me in brasil. we can have a cold brasilian beer and talk more seriously and properly on this topic after one or two beers….

    the lords peace be with you Tim W.!

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16. Tim W. I feel your pain and must confess that you and I appear to be in exactly the same boat. Mark Galli of ‘christinity today” in an interview by mokongbird had this ineresting thing to say. question: would you say this fits your situation? if not, how not?

    begin quote

    There was a lot of heated response to your recent column, “The Scandal of the Public Evangelical.” You said that being sanctified in this life is mostly about becoming increasingly aware of just how much we are, as the Book of Common Prayer says, “miserable offenders” and there “is no health in us.” Essentially, realizing how bad we are, and the immensity of God’s grace, and simply relying on that. Some people loved it, some hated it. One guy called it “appalling grace.” Why are people so heated in their response to this?

    I don’t know that I’ve talked about grace in the radical nature in which Paul and the New Testament talk about it unless people are shocked and appalled by what I’ve said. The doctrine of grace is so radical and so contrary to our assumptions about what religion is about, that once we express it in a clear fashion, it will appall people. Because we’re all so anxious—even people like me who preach grace—to justify our lives. We want our lives to be meaningful, purposeful, useful. So we hook our futures to God and think, “Now I can really make my life purposeful and useful and I can do something for God in the world. And if I work with God, he’s going to change me.” We’re not so interested in God a lot of times, we’re tired of who we are and we’re more interested in wanting to be a different kind of person so we can feel better about ourselves. So much of our religious language and religious motive is about ourselves: justifying ourselves or improving ourselves, with God as a means to that end. Well, the fact of the matter is it’s not about you. But that’s shocking and appalling to most people because we’re so used to thinking that religion is about us, even though we’ve learned to use religious language to suggest otherwise. But in fact, it really ends up being all about us.

    end quote

    http://mockingbirdnyc.blogspot.com/2009/11/exclusive-interview-mark-galli-of.html

    i hope this helps somehow dear brother!

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17. could you please restate your “argumentS” in a more specific .argumentative/propositional form? that would help! I am maybe missing your arguments! i dont want to do that. this is very important!

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18. ok. so preach it. this is god pleasing! who do you know among reformed or Lutherans who say this is not a good thing? where is the problem here or tension?

    it is not ‘christian behavior’ that is important like there is a separate, more spiritual law, for christians that does not apply to pagans. where is THAT notion found in the bible?

    lets be clear here: pagans can do ALL works of righteousness described by st james. they can full do this using free will, will power , discipline and self help books etc etc.

    what pagans nor christian can do with their free will is keep the first table of the law. what is required to do this? that invisible thing called faith in Jesus christ. THIS alone is sanctification. an outward keeping of the law is not that. even though it too is a work of the Holy Spirit, using the carrot and stick of the law in absence of regeneration.

    so you DO beg a question here dear broher: how do you , personally, feel that you are justified by YOUR works as well as your faith? and so earn salvation thusly? “the JUSTIFIED shall live by faith” should I understand you oppose st james to st pau? how do YOU , in your personal walk, reconcile these things?.

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19. YOU do it. and he does it through you.

    both are true.

    same as with pagans by the way! all righteousness worked on earth is a gift to mankind of the holy spirit.

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20. 4 . thats why now you, through him, can do it.

    very slight correction. you, insofar as you are regenerate, simply DO it. no practice or exhortation is necessary. it happens automatically! think of how Jesus kept the law. he did not need to do spiritual pushups. it was simply his nature to do good.

    you now have this SAME nature, INSOFAR as you are regenerat.e. caveat eh?

    what you do spontaneously looks identical outwardly to what you manage to do under the carrot and stick of the law (what st paul calls “discipline” “submitting your will” is law) and is in fact the SAME Will of God the holy spirit gets out of you in two ways. one by force and the other by conforming your will to God’s will. make sense?

    insofar as you are regenerate. you are sinner with the old adam that needs to die. what some christians call ‘evangelical exhortations to be more sanctified ” is LAW. “what would Jesus do” is not what we do. nor is our motive purely a loving response to what Jesus did for us. as it SHOULD be . according to that law exhortation. which we also do NOT do.

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21. there are usually a narrow and broad use of terms in the bible. the gospel can mean “the holy gospels” and it can narrowly mean THE gospel of the live death and resurrection of Jesus.

    same with repentance:

    i would flip what you say imonk and say that faith is ALWAYS a component of true repentance. true repentance cannot exist without being accompanied by faith in the gospel. and of course we are saying the same thing arent we dear brother!

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22. Jesus has the best answer I think:

    ” you search the scriptures thinking you will find in them eternal life. they ALL (old testament) exist as a testimony to me!” and

    ” there are many things Jesus said and did that could fill many books, but these things are written that you might know christ….”

    You are called as a pastor to preach the forgiveness of sins. period. you are not called to fix peoples failure to keep the law. it cannot be done. they will die from not keeping the law. (remember what they say bout death and taxes?)

    Jesus always preached the law in a way that said “you can’t do it”. even to that prostitute. he did not tell her, “now go and stop your sexual sinning” no he was more radical wasnt he? he said “go and sin no more” STOP ALL your sinning!”

    so it is not IF you cant pull this off. it is you CANNOT pull this off. Jesus DOES have you covered.

    now, since keeping the Law IS God;s will, a christian would look strange to not care about what God’s will is. how many christians have you met as pastor who doesnt care about that? so this is not letting anyone off the hook. christians are still required, under threat, to keep the same law as pagans are. or else! and yes they ARE covered.

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23. one last ver important point. the “will power’ of the old adam is not helpful in things of faith or sanctification and is even the enemy of it for it is in bondage to sin, even though it IS , sometimes, useful in outward good works (eg “try harder!”)

    the fact is: our will power, along with the rest of the Old Adam MUST DIE.

    it is simply not true that a christian will never willfully sin. the old adam is still alive and well, in partcular through that thing called ‘will power”. It must be made to submit and die. the holy spirit does this to us through the law.

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24. btw

    any message that is about telling christians how they should behave is NOT a message about sanctification or faith. That message is pure LAW.

    sanctification, and it’s fruit simply happens, like faith, from hearing the Gospel.

    exhortations, even ‘evangelical exhortations” like “we SHOULD do good works PURELY out of the motive of love for what Jesus did for us” are pure… yes… LAW! we do not do this.

    christians need to use the same tools available to pagans to become more righteous. this is called “mortification (ie killing!) of the flesh” . this is done through the suffering hard work of discipline, trial and error, school of hard knocks, forgiveness, appeals to ego or loss of wellbeing (eg “show up for work on time or you will be fired!). here we use will power, free will, behavior modification. whatever is clever! SAME tools pagans use. nothing at all ‘spiritual’ here. being a good parent looks the same for pagan or christian. ditto every other thing we do as vocation. this includes what we do as ‘church work”

    the Lutheran Formula of Concord has a section called ‘ the 3rd use of the law’ this section is very specifically intended to disabuse christians of the idea that there is some ‘sanctified’ excercise of the law that should look somehow more spiritual and less mundane/profane than what pagans are commanded to do.

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25. if sanctification is thought of as faith or at least as the righteousness granted by faith, then you have a lively reference with which to answer all questions I can think of about sanctification. examples:

    what is the relation of faith to justification?

    answer: same as sanctification. it is the inner planting, by God, not by our will or effort or “decision” of something that allows us to apprehend or take hold of what Jesus did OUTSIDE of us that alone can save.

    how do we increase sanctification?

    answer: the same way we increase faith: The holy spirit simply does this through hearing the Holy Gospel. there is NO other way.

    how do we know we have this thing called sanctification?

    answer: always good to ask “and why do you ask?” we know this in the same way we know we have saving faith. we know we don’t have what we SHOULD have, it is not enough, but Christ makes this situation all good.

    is there some sort of outward manifestation of sanctification?

    answer: no. just like faith. but the FRUIT of sanctification/faith (which is NOT sanctification), IS visible. so OKAY. NOW we are talking! we can separate sheep from goat, wheat from weed and shallow/rocky soil from the deep stuff! cool. church discipline made simple!

    So christian fruit of righteousness is a visible mark that identifies real christians from bogus ones and pagans?

    answer: not even! and here is the rub with that. ALL outward works of righteousness wrested, as a work of the Holy Spirit, from pagans and the old adam of christians are the will of God. The SAME outward works of righteousness worked , also by the Holy Spirit, from christians, insofar as they are regenerated, spontaneously, and effortlessly, as a ‘fruit of faith’ look IDENTICAL to what the pagans do! so christian righteousness that flows from faith is “visibly invisible” because there is no certain way to know which works are forced by law and which flow automatically from faith.

    ample proof: the incarnation of our Lord: Jesus simply WAS good. his good works were unremarkable, indistinguishable or at least not distiguised by the small town folk who knew him best. THIS is what real righteousness looks like. a right relationship to God. fear love and trust in god. the keeping of the first table of the law. this all happens automatically. what else WOULD Jesus have done? it was his very nature to just simply DO Jesus. to BE good. This looks identical to what christians, insofar as they are regenerated do “automatically, wihout any evangelical exhortations, reminders, encouragements, practice, exercise of will power etc. it is something that simply happens that no amount of law could EVER produce.

    practical application: sanctification/faith and it’s fruit are results of THE faith delivered to the saints. that Jesus lived died and rose again . these are articles of faith. faith is invisible. its object in which it alone can certainly trust is Jesus hanging dead on that cross, and with that , the death of the guilt of all our sins.

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26. not quite. sanctification is something God does to us and puts into us . it cannot save.

    salvation looks like a dead jew hanging on a cross.

    jesus death (salvation) proclaimed and announced, creates saving faith. this saving faith sanctifies us, and as a result we do works of outward righteousness that are outwardly indistinguishable from those works done by pagans that God works in both christian and pagan according to his will. the law of god by the way… = the will of god.

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27. I once heard it explained that that illustration was meant to be outlandish. If we amputated every part of our body that is sinful, there would be nothing left.

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28. Click on the link at the bottom for “Older Comments.” After a certain number of comments, all you’ll see are the most recent 5 or so. To see them all, click on “Older Comments.”

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29. Good point. I know many of those. But what bothers me more about this conversation are all the evil “Christians” I know who think because they said a prayer one time they are saved and therefore their sin is covered. I have seen an awful lot of continual, willful evil by Christian leaders excused because they just ‘fell’. Maybe there were not really saved?

    How would Hebrews 10:26-31 fit into this conversation?

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30. Pingback: Sanctification to Maturity « Cogito, Credo, Petam

31. “I am NOT okay with the idea of not ever seeing any improvement in my current, earthly life. ”

    The problem with this is…

    The longer I study God’s Word, the more things I realize are sins. The more things I see as sinful, the more sinful I appear to myself. There is no way to track moral progress because it’s not a scale. It’s pass or fail and we’ve all fallen short. The more I learn about sin, the more I despair of my sin because I see more and more of it. I see things I never noticed before. I need that Gospel more and more all the time.

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32. What you’ve just done is law-gospel-law. You can’t chose which function of the law the hearer will employ with their ears. What if I feel like I’m not “doing it through Him” good enough? Then I will despair because I’m looking inward for the Gospel instead of keeping my eyes on Christ. What ever we can “do through Him” we still only do imperfectly. That should be your transition point (from law to gospel) rather than your ending point.

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33. Sanctification is what salvation looks like.

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34. webmonk! somehow I am only able to see the posts here from my post #103? forward….. am I doing something wrong here?

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35. desiderius:

    works ARE necessary, and you WILL go to hell of you do not conform to God’s will.

    completely.

    you cannot do this with your will power or fallen reason and free will. not EVEN if you take biblical metaphor literally and turn yourself into a quadraplegic castrated blind deaf person. okay?

    you sin BECAUSE that is who you are, a sinner. you are not a sinner because of what your head hands and mouth do or think. bad tree=bad fruit. not the other way around.

    ONLY faith in christ can save you from hell

    roman catholics do not believe any of these points. and so where is it that you feel they have a point. I am a Lutheran christian in in complete agreement with Dr Rosenbladt by the way just so you know where I am coming from here in the spirit of full disclosure.

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36. Maybe all these “where’s your fruit” sermons, should be balanced out with some “there’s your fruit” sermons. I mean, look at most of Paul’s letters. He almost always started out with praising the saints for the ways they have been true and faithful before addressing the problems in each individual church. And though Paul addressed many problems in the church, he never let that overshadow his hope and confidence that Christ would complete the work He had started in these people’s lives. It’s also obvious that he took the time to look for and see the good that was manifesting itself in the churches he addressed.
    Maybe too many church leaders have let themselves become far too critical of their flocks. And, in the name of keeping the bar of truth and righteousness high, they end up bludgeoning their sheep to death — somehow forgetting that they were primarily called to feed and encourage and build up the church in Christ. Sure, admonition is part of it, but it should always be done in love — which (except in “tough love” cases of defiant, willfull sinning) means doing it with gentleness and understanding.
    And if a pastor or minister can look at their church body and not see anything praiseworthy, then there’s either something wrong with their eyes or with the quality of their leadership. In either case, they would probably do well to seek another vocation.

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37. Thank you for this riff, Imonk. I think this is THE most important issue that evangelicals, and protestants in general, need to address.

    The essay by Dr Rosenbladt was excellent and I found it most encouraging, because I struggle with the issue of being condemned by the law. I would dearly love to believe that Rosenbladt has nailed the issue on the head, but … there are passages such as it being better to cut off the hand than to have the whole body cast into hell, the fruitless branches that end up in the fire, the servant with his one coin, not to mention James’ letter that make me wonder if the Catholics don’t have a point.

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38. try this: sanctification = faith in Jesus christ. the same thing that creates faith, creates sanctification. nothing else can do this,

    the FRUIT of sanctification (which is NOT sanctfication )outwardly looks IDENTICAL to that outward righteousness that all men can completely do using their free will and reason.

    Both ‘righteous works of the law’ and ‘fruits of faith’ outwardly look and are worked by God. They both accomplish the same will of God.

    works of the law are accomplished in men by the threat, carrots and fear of the law. These happen only through discipline, hard lessons, trial and error. Will power is invoked alot here! just try harder. just say no.

    fruits of faith/sanctification happen spontaneously, automatically, as natural impulse of our new will, now aligned with God’s will through faith. Think of how Jesus kept the law. It looks exactly like that. He did not need to try. it was simply his nature to be perfectly good. what else COULD he have done? he did not need to do ‘spiritual pushups’.

    outwardly fruit of faith = outward righteousness of the law. same will of God being done.

    there are not two wills of God. there is only one.

    The will of God in christ is the only thing that can tell us that do not need to fear God because we don’t measure up to his will. not even that part that says we SHOULD do good works out of a loving response to what our Jesus did for us. that is rarely our pure motive is it?

    the ONLY thing a pagan lacks is a keeping of the first table. fear, love and trust in God above all else, and calling upon God in every trouble rather than relying on something else.

    No ‘evangelical exhortations (ie law!) or ” you SHOULD do good works in loving response to what your Jesus did for you (more law!) can work faith/sanctification. Only hearing the Gospel good news of the life death and resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins can do this. our will power is actually the enemy of this. our will power, like the res of the old adam must also die.

    Practical takehomes:

    ‘fruit of faith’ and righteous works of the law’ are both visible and are outwardly identical. so fruit of faith is ‘visibly invisible’ if you will. the difference is the invisible faith in the heart, from which flows fruit of faith.

    so how do we tell what of our works are fruits of sanctification and which are forced out of us by the law (since we are sinners AND saints)? we don’t. becoming fruit inspectors is not in our future. but at the same time it would be wierd for a christian to know what the will of God is and say he doesnt care. but then again we should not expect or look for something visible to divide sheep from goat, wheat from tare, shallow soil from deep. Jesus command us to leave that part to him at the end, where we have every confidence, from the grace after grace he has bestowed upon us, that he will resolve this all, too, sweetly by grace.

    in the parables we learn that God not reasonably just. he is unreasonably good and generous. come quickly Lord Jesus.

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39. Tis grace that brought me safe thus far…and works will lead me home? Is that how the hymn goes? We sure seem to act like it sometimes.

    “Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” – Galatians 3:3 (KJV).

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40. A Parable:

    We all have a “to-do list”. It started in childhood with “Don’t kick your sister” and “Listen when a grown-up is talking to you” and “Be quiet in church”. It grew in adolescence with “Get along with your friends” “Pick up your clothes” “Make good life choices” “If you don’t, don’t get caught” and “Feed the hungry”. In adulthood we are expected to “Be on time for work” “Remember to pick up the dry cleaning” “Recycle”, and sometimes to be a functional Christian: “Pray and read the Bible” “Build up Christ’s body, the Church” “Don’t look at men’s magazines” “If you do, don’t get caught”.

    By this time the list has grown very long, trailing behind us. We don’t remember everything it says. We are careful to keep some of the routine admonitions, but we are even more careful to keep the list whole and intact, in case we are required to quote from it or have the time to seriously address parts of the list we have ignored for a while.

    At a defining moment of our life, up walks Jesus who asks to see our list. Nervously, we expect a dressing-down for the parts we haven’t kept or several new things to add to it. He reads it carefully, smiling, nodding at some entries, looking puzzled at others. When he finishes, he shouts “Waa-hoo!” and rips the list to confetti. He turns and walks off.

    We are beyond stunned; we are existentially rootless. We’ve always had that list. We shout after Jesus’ retreating form “WHAT DO I DO NOW!?”

    Jesus says, “Come on, I’ll show you” and walks on.

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41. “If the Christian is reading the Law and says, “This is not yet true of me: I don’t love God with all my heart, and I certainly don’t love my neighbor as I love myself. In fact, just today I failed to help a poor chap on the side of the road who was having car trouble. I must not yet be a Christian,” here the reformers would counsel, “You hurry back to the second use of the law and flee to Christ where sanctification is truly, completely, and perfectly located.” After this experience, the believer will feel a greater sense of freedom to obey, and it is the only way that one will ever feel free to obey.” This is a great quote by Dr. Rosenbladt and one truth I have found to be a great comfort in times of despair. True change and obedience can only flow from understanding what Christ accomplished for us and not from what we can accomplish for Christ. Christ said his yoke is easy and his burden light. So why do we place demands upon ourselves that overshadow the great redemptive work of Christ himself? Great thought provoking article Michael and one that needs to be heard on a regular basis as we are all “wired for works” as Dr. Horton would say.

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42. Why do people always quote Jesus’ admonition to beware of false prophets in Matt. 7– “By their fruit you will recognize them”– and use that to refer to any Christian whose salvation they’ve decided to call into question because the person doesn’t seem to be producing enough visible, pious good works to satisfy them? Is this not often what we mean by being a Pharisee? Is it possible that these people are doing their good works quietly, not to be seen by men, as a Christian should? It is true that a city on a hill cannot be hidden, but it’s also not our job to try to gauge the sanctification of others (or ourselves for that matter), for this process of holiness is hidden in this life. And holiness is never something we increase in ourselves by working harder as Christians. To be holy is to be perfect. We are holy and perfect in Christ, and we live and move and have our being in Christ.

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43. *know His holiness – Jesus Christ.

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44. Michael, you said “Evangelicals rightly pause at Roman Catholic ideas that grace enables us to do good works, which all adds up to faith. The RC system conflates justification and sanctification without flinching.”

    We Methodists have in our Articles of Religion: “8.The free will of all people must have divine help in order that we may do good and please God.”

    I try to separate justification from sanctification, i.e. you don’t have to grow in holiness before you His holiness – Jesus Christ.

    What the article refers to though is the Methodist idea of Prevenient Grace, the idea that we are so depraved and so fallen that we need a divine spark to even turn back toward God, and thereafter rely on His power to acheive anything good in His name, by our hands.

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45. The definition of fruit that I was thinking of was the “fruit of the spirit”. These are not things that we do but things that we are.

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46. And the primary work of the Holy Spirit is through the proclaimation of the gospel – that the savior has come. The good news is not that Christians are going to amass their goods and efforts to solve the world’s problems through great public works. Christians proclaim that the problems of the world have already been solved through a cross and an empty tomb.

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47. Oh yeah, and if you DON’T, you’ll go to hell.

    No pressure.

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48. It’s easy to forget that the epistles were addressed to small enough groups of people that INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITIES were the subject of many lines – we should read them as if the many silent recipients are among our friends and family being addressed, comforted, warned and encouraged. When you read about not to give up hope, think of your bipolar sister who is trying to approach the Cross for the first time; when you read about who the truth is not within, think of your intellectual friend nursing his new humility. When you read the saints addressing about sins and lostness that you don’t understand, think of all your estranged friends.

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49. “I think what you’re describing is a matter of psychological cohesion, of what is necessary to fully embrace life and feel its purpose-drivenness. On these grounds you’re right; eventually you are going to have to perceive some change in yourself or else you will be tempted toward despair.”

    Yes! I’m approaching this from the standpoint of happiness in this life, not of salvation. Sorry for not being clearer at the outset but I was expressing my thoughts as I went along.

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50. “When I look at Christ, I see God’s righteousness extended to me, the sinner. I go to worship each week, hold out my hands in faith, and receive the good news again and again through word and sacrament, and then I arise and go into the world again, simultaneously a sinner and one who is justified in Christ.”

    I am NOT oaky with the idea of not ever seeing any improvement in my current, earthly life.

    I am NOT okay with waiting until next life for me to see any improvement.

    I believe there will be an afterlife, but I’m not 100% for certain. No one can be 100% certain, so this is why my life has to improve now, not after I’m dead.

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51. “My pastor always says that anything that starts with “self” is sin: self-esteem, self-control, self-denial,”

    Your pastor thinks in black-and-white and over-generalizes.

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52. “Behavior modification has NOTHING to do with the gospel!”

    Maybe so; however, it has a lot to do with leading a happy and productive life. No one wants to stay mired in their destructive patterns.

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53. “Do I obey God in order to get something from Him or do I obey out of love and thanklfulness? Only the latter is acceptable to God.”

    No. If that were the case, why did God say things in the bible like do xyz and you will be blessed; do xyz and you will NOT be blessed?? If anyone thinks the former, it isn’t their fault, it is the bible’s fault. Besides, no one obeys out of love and thankfulness. Everyone obeys God for personal gain.

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54. I have not had the chance to read all the comments but just had a thought. I was waiting at the doctors office this morning and picked up a watchtower magazine. it was filled to the brim with nothing but behavior modification articles. I recalled most of the sermons at my former mega as I read and mused to myself how they sounded just like these articles in the watchtower. Everything from money, debt, modesty, marriage, kids, etc., etc.

    It is pretty scary when our churches are teaching the same things that Mormon’s and JW’s are teaching.

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55. “The bottom line is, is Jesus’ life and work enough to make you acceptable to God or not?”

    To be happy, I need to know that I’m acceptable to God, but that’s just one thing.

    I also need to be acceptable to MY SELF. If I don’t see that I’m becoming a better person, I am not pleased with myself. It’s just as important for me to respect myself as it is for me to know that God approves of me. I can read the Gospels and it says that God lvoes me, but its just meaningless words. My day to day happiness depends more on my own sense of self respect than on what God thinks.

    I can KNOW for certain what I think of myself. Conversely, I have no way of knowing whaty God thinks, apart from teh bible, which is just hearsay.

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56. I.e., there’s a reason people FOLLOWED Jesus and sought Him out, as opposed to being upbraided and coerced and browbeaten to become His disciples.

    You can’t push a rope. You DRAW people to Jesus. After all, the Father DRAWS people to Jesus.

    Just thinkin…

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57. When I read this comment this morning, I immediately returned in my mind to my last visit to a church near me, a church I often attend when I am not preaching elsewhere. One thing about this church is predictable: I will hear about the necessity that my behavior must change. I must attend church more. I must do more church-related work. I must give more and witness more (and this despite that I am a full time missionary teacher working with mostly non-Christian teenagers.) I must support the church more. It is a constant example of the “church shaped spirituality” you’ll be hearing about in my book. Everything is about behavior. Behavior that must change. What I must feel. What God requires of me. When I leave I am, literally, beaten down. The Gospel is a past tense matter and its time to get down to “application.”

    “It’s a poor workman who complains about his tools.”

    Sounds like the problem is with the pastor. If by now he hasn’t beat his sheep into shape, maybe he should look for another line of work, or simply step down and see how the church runs without his rod and staff thwapping the flock. I’ll bet he’ll see more grace and good works come forth by simply letting the people do the work of the ministry than all his haranguing and harrumphing have accomplished.

    Maybe he needs to see a shrink. Or maybe he needs to hear and believe the Gospel. Just like those who worship idols become like them (Psalm 115:8), so does one become like one’s image of God. Is your God a harsh taskmaster or an unable-to-be-pleased Father? Then you’ll do what this guy seems to be doing.

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58. I think what you’re describing is a matter of psychological cohesion, of what is necessary to fully embrace life and feel its purpose-drivenness. On these grounds you’re right; eventually you are going to have to perceive some change in yourself or else you will be tempted toward despair. But this temptation is only that and needs to be rejected no matter how fruitless progress seems to be.

    But look, none of this has anything to do with salvation. The Good Thief came around only at a point where he was physically incapable of producing any fruit whatsoever.

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59. Perhaps iMonk can spend some time talking about the Kingdom parables. The work of Christians will always pale in comparison to those of the unconverted, because of the way the Holy Spirit works. The kingdom of God is not spread through jihad, cultural war, or flamboyant, public displays of piety. The Spirit’s work is hidden, covert, and quiet through daily, routine acts of charity to ones neighbor, duty to ones parents and authorities, and faithful, ethical dedication to ones vocation. These works are always frail, incomplete, and tainted with sin, but like the mustard seed the results are gigantic, because the increase is the result of the Holy Spirit’s work – not ours.

    Ironically, throughout history much antinominianism was spread through those claiming to be “holy”. They performed what they considered pious in their own minds – according to the will and inspiration of the old Adam, Without the Spirit, true service to God and neighbor was neglected. Often their worldly piety is used as justification to abuse and cheat ones neighbor.

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60. I believe (think, perceive) that James is writing to people who he knows are working very hard to grow in Christ, but are finding the way extremely difficult. In fact, they may be living out the beatitudes in their very lives. They are downtrodden, they hunger for mercy and righteousness and justice, they are peacemakers, they are persecuted and slandered and pursued…

    And James tells them that these things are a measure of God’s grace, that they are able to go through these things and, through the Saviour, learn from them. Grow through them. Be more and more of a mercy and a guide to others who will also go through these things, persecutions from without and within.

    You also must remember, however, that James is writing to the Jews, not the Gentiles. He’s writing to people who have grown up defining their entire lives by how they live out a set of codes (and James himself has lived this out as well) and they are attempting to translate those lives into Gospel living without losing everything that they’re used to in the process…they want to keep the good things, the holy things, the sacred things. There’s an enormous tension being addressed in James that remains beneath the surface, things referenced that we, a modern Western audience, simply don’t see unless we look for them.

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61. Word.

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62. I don’t have the answer about it fitting in or not, Christiane, but I do know that I like it and give my assent to it. May God melt all the frozen places within us. Amen.

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63. Pingback: Det vaknande hjärtat » Blog Archive » Läsvärt frÃ¥n iMonk

64. When I read the question

    “Yes, only the gospel saves. But does that mean that Christians are not required to modify their behavior?”

    I thought to myself,

    “They’re not, but Jesus will.”

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65. Christians are being persecuted by Islamist Malaysia. Read more about it here http://margeemar.blogspot.com/2009/11/allah-is-also-my-god.html#links and here http://margeemar.blogspot.com/2009/11/evil-bnumno-persecutes-christians-in.html

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66. Joe,

    I don’t know which circles you travel in, but I have been a Christian almost 30 years, and much of this time was spent among people who couldn’t articulate the Gospel when asked. The regular church diet was nothing but ‘how to’ sermons and warnings and harangues against this sin or that sin. Even among my own people in the Lutheran Church, a survey was taken a number of years ago that showed upwards of 75% of us across synodical lines believed that they were aved because they were trying to be good. This amongst a denomination that is often accused of being ‘weak on sanctification, and makes a point about being ‘Gospel centered.’

    Maybe everyone I know is unsaved, even the ones who have been ‘saved’ for 40 or 50 years because honestly, other than ‘church talk’ and ‘theology talk’ I really can’t see the difference in their behavior and the behavior of decently moral unbelievers.( I know that behind the scenes they study scripture and pray, often fervently, but its not something that you could look at them and tell.) I have known practioners of Buddhism that outshine Christians in humility, piety, love, and works of mercy.

    Be honest, in your opinion, how should a Christian look different than a moral unbeliever after years of being saved?

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67. I think the answer is that it is God’s Spirit doing the awakening, forming, removing, etc., rather than human effort trying to appease God out of fear of losing ones salvation.

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68. Just listening to this song today (U2 version w/ BB) and really listened to it at a time when I am angry with God and just after the verse came to mind – Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. And suddenly I saw a God who i was angry with as Jesus and the words gentle and humble described someone who willingly burdened himself for me in a way I hadn’t felt before…like Rose Marie Miller hearing the crackling of the communion bread as the spear into His side…I felt a burden lifted and saw a gentle God who is patient with me beyond my own belief and truly loves me.

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69. Ditto. My (Lutheran) pastor reads this blog, and he says that Michael is a Lutheran that just won’t admit it. 🙂

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70. Something more? How about something more specific? Again, Paul is plenty specific. Indeed, Jesus is plenty specific. Your quote is about repentance, yet the post seems to dissuade us from mentioning actual sins, lest people sink into despair.

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71. how do you explain all the nonbelievers that outshine true Christians in character and good works?

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72. Eric: we know the answer to that. There is no Lutheran church nearby and no Lutheran missionary has ventured that far and we have not sent any missionaries.

    I do feel bad about that.

    From my understanding their is currently an oversupply of graduates. Maybe someone can call one. Or else, there is distance education available now towards the ministry.

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73. Yes, it was all about the hypocrisy.

    And wanting to impose their morality on everyone else.

    And the innocent victims of both those things.

    A lady who worked for me was a Jainist, and you could see it in everyday actions. I will never forget getting a little reprimand after I swatted a wasp while I was on the phone with her. “I can’t kill my way into heaven, can I?” I said. “Nope” she said.

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74. I shouldn’t have picked on Prebyterians. It applies equally to any number of evangelicals.

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75. This is from the Orthodox. How does it fit in (or not fit in) with the Protestant dichotomy of justification and salvation?

    “Our Lord cries to us in the depths of our hearts,
    “Awake 0 sleeper, rise up from among the dead, and Christ will illumine you”.
    “And you shall be as I fashioned you, a child of light capable of great compassion and love.
    And then I will awaken within you my Holy Spirit.
    You will know the profound love without limits I have for you.
    And your flow of tears will witness to the melting of frozen places within you. The softening of your tear stained face will be an invitation for me to take up my abode in your heart.
    I will remove from you all harsh judgement”

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76. “Jesus loves you”

    You need something more? It is the message of Christ’s love that in us produces right living. “It’s your kindness Lord that Leads us to repentance….”

    Secondly, it is the Fruit not the Fruits of the spirit and they are just that the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of your self… That fruit is identified but Love, Joy, peace etc but that fruit is not produced by trying harder but by knowing God’s goodness more.

    D

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77. I’m confused, and I’d like to take the contrarian position. Rosenbladt quotes the reformers as believing in a didactic use of the law, to teach about how one should live. Paul himself has many passages giving specific advice about specific situations in life. And yet, this is far from the only post where iMonk goes off on preaching which gives specific advice on living. Elsewhere he derides sermons that aspire to be “relevant”. What then are we left with? “God loves you”? “Jesus loves you”? That’s the entire permissible range? I would like to see a followup post that gives examples of how specific advice fits into the scheme. Is it not good to use the law to point out the sins we continue to commit, or has grace simply obviated that function of the law? Neither iMonk nor Rosenbladt seems to me to point the way forward, to explain how verses about “fruits of the spirit” have any meaning. For that matter, the whole idea of correcting another Christian rests on law preaching that this post seems to anathematize.
    Yes, I know iMonk speaks of “balance”, but I’m not seeing a practical way to achieve that.

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78. I can’t help but wonder if all this is simply meaningless rhetoric……………….

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79. When do you have enough fruit? When does the fruit meet an acceptable quality? Who’s definition of fruit? What if a fruitful period is followed by a barren period; is salvation then in question? There are certain individuals who are afraid of dying and facing Christ if abortion isn’t defeated in their lifetime; that is their definition of fruit.

    If you can survive a typical withering “where’s your fruit?” sermon, I’m either envious or very concerned. An answer may sound satisfyingly logiical or rational, but if it is fundamentally dehumanizing, it probably isn’t truth.

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80. In this debate I think it’s helpful to go back to Paul and James. One thing that interests me is that both Paul and James refer to Abraham to support their claims. Paul makes the point that God considered Abraham righteous because he believed (Romans 4, Genesis 15:6). James makes the point that Abraham’s faith was made complete by what he did (James 2:20-24, Genesis 22).

    I don’t believe that James and Paul contradict each other. Paul makes the point that we receive justification because of our belief and indeed Abraham was justified by faith before the covenant of circumcision or the sacrifice of Isaac. In Genesis 15:6 Abraham has shown faith, but not works, and God considers him righteous.

    At the same time, James has a point. Abraham’s faith had consequences for how he lived his life. He offered his son Isaac. A life of faith should result in sacrifice and good works. This is the natural, inevitable fruit of a life with God.

    Once we start to believe God works in our life, the first thing we receive is justification. We are freed from our sins because of the work of God on the cross. We also begin the process of sanctification. The Holy Spirit teaches us to lay down our lives and obey Him. As we obey God we become like him. I believe that what begins as imputed righteousness becomes imparted righteousness as we live life under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

    Thanks to Internet Monk and the commenters. You’ve given me much food for thought.

    While I’m at it, thank Jesus for this marvelous good news.

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81. “A James dominated Christianity would place the emphasis on ascertaining living faith via examining life for evidence of living faith as works.”

    Funny, that sounds like some Presbyterians I know…

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82. Michael,

    Having just taught on J.C. Ryle’s distinctions between Justification and Sanctification a couple of months ago I am not sure if I agree with your characterization of what he wrote.

    Most specifically you write: “3) Sanctification is NEVER such a pressing matter that our salvation is cast into question because of our lack of progress in it.”

    J.C. Ryle wrote: “(e) Both [justification and sactification] are alike necessary to salvation. No one ever reached heaven without a renewed heart as well as forgiveness, without the Spirit’s grace as well as the blood of Christ, without a meetness for eternal glory as well as a title. The one is just as necessary as the other.”

    He also write: “(1) For one thing, let us all awake to a sense of the perilous state of many professing Christians.”Without holiness no man shall see the Lord”; without sanctification there is no salvation. (Heb.xii. 14.) Then what an enormous amount of so-called religion there is which is perfectly useless! What an immense proportion of church-goers and chapel-goers are in the broad road that leadeth to destruction! The thought is awful, crushing, and overwhelming.Oh, that preachers and teachers would open their eyes and realize the condition of souls around them! Oh, that man could be persuaded to”flee from the wrath to come”I If unsanctified souls can be saved and go to heaven, the Bible is not true. Yet the Bible is true and cannot lie! What must the end be! ”

    1 John Chapter 1 says a lot about walking in darkness and walking in light. Hebrews and James have similar things to say. Paul talks about finishing the race. Maybe this raises other Calvinist versus Arminian questions about when a person is truly saved, but it seems to be that if a person has been truly justified then “you shall know them by their fruit.”

    Have I stirred up enough of a hornet’s nest? 🙂

    Look forward to what you have to say.

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83. This is an interesting question. The first thing that springs to mind is that there is nothing that we can “do” about sin. Sure, we can change our behavior to avoid committing specific sins, but our flesh, our sinful nature is constantly at work. We need Jesus to forgive our sins.

    As I think about the passage you quoted, I see it as being parallel to Paul’s teaching about becoming a “living sacrifice” we must submit ourselves, body and soul, to the work of the Holy Spirit. Part of that is giving up our hands and our eyes. They are no longer ours, but they belong to Christ. Someone who submits to God in this way will please Him, even though his hands and eyes remain intact.

    On the other hand, consider someone who cuts off a hand or gauges an eye to try to stop himself from sinning. If he doesn’t accept Jesus’ forgiveness or submit to the work of the Holy Spirit he won’t be better off. He will have lost a hand or an eye and still be guilty of sin. What we do about sin can never take the place of what Jesus has already done about sin. His atonement is still our primary means of salvation.

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84. Apparently the apostle Paul had no problem saying that our salvation is through sanctification. “But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.” 2 Thess 2:13. Nor did Paul have a problem saying that sanctification was a condition of salvation. “Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.” Heb 12:14.

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85. To Gary,
    The bottom line is, is Jesus’ life and work enough to make you acceptable to God or not? If not then no-one can have the confident assurance outlined in Hebrews. But if it is then chopping or not chopping off your hand, etc CANNOT make any difference to Jesus’ acceptance of us. That being the case what possible reason could it serve?
    The truth is, no matter what we confess with our lips, our hearts constantly try to find ways to earn god’s favor. Jesus gives us a graphic metaphor to show us that we can’t do it to lead us to put all our trust in him. You see, our hands and eyes don’t really cause us to sin,our sinful hearts do. Here, as elsewhere Jesus gives us something that we can’t do in order to lead us to trust him instead of our own ability to ‘clean’ ourselves up. As we shrink from the fear of such self mutilation we are led to the one who suffered much worse for our sakes.

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86. Well said, Petra.

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87. I think the key that gets to the heart of the distinction between justification and sanctification is the question of the motives of the heart. Do I obey God in order to get something from Him or do I obey out of love and thanklfulness? Only the latter is acceptable to God.
    Of course our hearts deceive us that’s why preaching must continually seek to expose our false hope in the idols of our hearts rather than go after external behaviour modification.

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88. Well, if the Roman Catholics “conflate” sanctification and justification without flinching (and I’m not RC, nor think I ever will be) Protestants divorce the two without flinching. “But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.” 2 Thess 2:13. “Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.” Heb 12:14. Sanctification is not “behavior modification” as Spencer rightly says, but it IS being made holy, being made loving, being made perfect, being made rightous, being conformed to the image of Christ, who is our salvation. Ever since the Reformation Protestantism has had to fight against the massive logical forces generated by falsely separating justification and sanctification. This separation is the very source of both the moralism and the easy-believism, the pietism and the intellectual movements to recover extrinsic salvation as “pure gospel”. “For without Me you can do nothing”. That means we must DO something, whether it be believe, repent or do a good work. It is all grace. Repentance does not belong in the category of “law” as Rosenbladt suggests. Repentance is the actual grace-enabled turning from sin and damnation to holiness and salvation. It all goes together. Read that verse in Thessalonians until you realize Paul knew nothing of this distinction. Heaps of Americans Christians would pounce on him if for saying that if they didn’t know the real origin of the statement.

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89. Thank you for your thoughtful response and I resonate with the imagery you draw upon to “paint the picure”. Thankfully, “in Christ” is our relational position, identity and hope. It is so alluring to simply abide in the love of Father, Son and Holy Spirit and yet we find so many ways to avoid him, even (or especially) in our theologizing. We must never outgrow “coming as a child” in matters of trust and love. The world depsperately needs to see this mystery revealed in us. BTW, I like the simple but robust def. of salvation.

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90. Isn’t the problem really this rigid distinction between faith and works and the idea of imputed Justification, that keeps Jesus somehow separate from me? But if I live a Christian life and walk with Jesus, He permeates my whole life and being through His grace. Through this, and only through this, am I able to live a life of holiness (which is much more than being nice – in fact, it’s rather about “living the virtues heroically”). I can’t “change my behavior” without God’s help and grace; but holiness is not merely about behavior change, but about loving God and neighbor “with all my strength”.

    Of course, here on Earth, everything is imperfect, and so is my life in trying to follow my Savior. I fall and sin many times – but at the same time I know that I’m a child of God and He will take me into His arms again everytime if I repent.

    The Christian life is an everyday struggle, but a struggle carried by the loving arms of our Father and aided by His grace.

    No faith-works dichotomy here – but a whole new life in Jesus Christ…

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91. So, what are we to “do” about sin? What are we to make of Jesus’ teaching to gouge out our eye or cut off our hand if necessary in order to enter into ‘life”?

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92. While it is necessary to separate the concepts of justification and sanctification, I think we have to be careful that we don’t downplay the latter.

    For decades evangelicals have been accused of treating the faith as a “get out of hell free” card and that behavior change was optional (something for the preachers and saints, maybe, but not for the common guy). This simply isn’t biblical. In fact, it’s anti-gospel.

    No, works do not save you. I think we are all clear on that. But if you’ve been a Christian for years and your behavior is indistinguishable from non-believers, then you may be a hearer the gospel, but you are not a doer of it.

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93. Michael,

    Thank you for this post. We hear about this struggle all the time, and in my experience, I’ve found that it is consistently what my father (Dr. Rosenbladt) takes on with many believers and ex-believers. So many people have one foot out the door of the church or are already gone. And it is this kind of poison which does it to them.

    In Lutheran circles, it is the Lutheran pietists who work like crazy to corral you into the ‘requirement’ of you ensuring your own good works (instead of recognizing Christ is our sanctification) by using the ‘third rail’ of antinomianism to create constant anxiety. That is, “Don’t be too free with the grace or you’ll be an antinomian and will have left the faith without even knowing it!”. These contemporary pharisees seem to take some deep personal satisfaction in grinding on those whom they’ve deemed as ‘too free’ by using their own personal measuring sticks. And the fact that people end up leaving the church and the faith due to such teaching does not dissuade them.

    But I’ve learned that this also creates wonderful teaching opportunities, helping folks who have been ground down by such law to come to the unhindered joy of the Gospel.

    And how is that done? By making sure such “bruised reeds” and “smoldering wicks” are delivered only the 200-proof Gospel which they suspect is true and are so thirsty to hear but can’t seem to find anyone who will say it to them. Then with their faith refreshed and renewed you can be sure sanctification will follow, not of their own willful concerted efforts, but through Christ, upon Whom these people’s eyes are now fixed.

    Thanks again for all you do to teach about the Gospel, Michael.

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94. As someone who spent the first 10 years of his relatively short Christian life actively involved in a “church-centered” spirituality, working 60-70-80+ hours a week to build a church, I am intimately acquainted with the external signs of spiritual growth ministers tend to look for in their flocks. Over the years I have become more and more convinced that the gospel defies our inbred American tendency to validate everything through our self-determined, self-imposed standards of measurement. The gospel laughs at our attempts to validate it, quantify it, and create sanctified systems for acceptable growth.

    I have found that such anti-gospel thinking only results in ministers who are driven to produce and justify instead of trusting the Spirit to produce in His way and in His timing, and in Christ to justify in His way and His timing. When we get focused on “required behavior change” we are looking through the telescope from the wrong end and we’re usually lucky if we can consistently see the gospel at all in these types of ministries.

    Instead let us present Christ in all His beauty and brilliance, let us set Him before the people in our preaching and through baptism and the Lord’s supper (the visible sermon), and trust, I say again, TRUST that God will honor that, and stir our hearts to FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE. And that as a result of being captivated by our King, of beholding His glory, we will be transformed at the deepest center of our being and compelled to apply our faith in a thousand ways throughout every aspect of our lives on any given week.

    And what if people don’t change? It seems to me, we have only one question to answer… Am I being faithful to what God has called me to do? Am I presenting the gospel in all it’s fullness? If so, then what concern is it to me if people do not seem to be changing? I say SEEM, because I am convinced that many ministers, myself included, will be very surprised the day we stand before Jesus and discover that all the outward manifestations of our ministry we were so eager to measure in the lives of our people, were really of little account compared to the hidden work of the gospel, to which we are called to be faithful, in which we will glory.

    Let us not forget that the Kingdom is very different from what we are used to as fallen human beings. In many respects it defies all our natural impulses. It is often very bassakwards and upside down. How much more backwards could it be than to have its inauguration ceremony include the crucifixion of it’s King! Let’s remember this the next time we are quick to judge, quick to measure, and slow to trust. Instead, let’s pray that the Spirit of the Living God would draw us into that “rest” IM spoke of.

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95. Let me ask you a question, why did it bother you that Christians behaved no better than anyone else? I’m guessing that it bothered you because you heard or saw Christians asserting that they were morally superior because of their faith. Their hypocrisy is what bothered you. Otherwise why would it bother you that they behave just like everybody else?

    That being said, I struggle with the “get out of jail free” aspect of the gospel. On the one hand I believe that Jesus, who ate with prostitutes, and extortionists/national traitors, was exactly the kind of person who would do something outrageous like giving “get out of jail free” cards to unrepentant sinners.

    On the other hand, the Bible is clear that the truly unrepentant won’t be saved. People who treat the Gospel merely as a “get out of jail free” card haven’t received the true Gospel.

    I’m still very much confused myself. I personally started to take Jesus seriously when a friend told me that guilt and condemnation were excluded and that only belief was needed.

    My growing conviction is that in a very real sense the Gospel is a get out of jail free card until the Holy Spirit comes upon us and begins to change us. At that point we have the choice to cooperate or resist the work of the Spirit. At some point we all resist the Holy Spirit and go our own way.

    The question we are left with is, at what point do we resist God so much that our faith is dead? This is a question that can’t be answered neatly. We know where we stand with God because His Spirit testifies to our spirit, but we can’t judge a fellow believer based on his outward appearance and behavior.

    That comment was longer than I expected, but you gave me a lot to think about. I too worry that sometimes the line between a reformation view of grace and antinomianism is thin and hard to see, but I believe that it is there.

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96. Great post, as always. One thing that jumped in my mind — sanctification isn’t just changes in behavior — it’s a transformation of the self to become more like Jesus … which does involve some changes in behavior, but those changes are secondary to the changes in heart, will, etc. that accompany Gospel transformation.

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97. Tim: in my experience, the times when the gospel feels most like nothing but “words” are at those times when I most need it. But those are precisely the times when the “fruit” seems either rotten or non-existent.

    At those times, all I have to hold on to is the knowledge that “I am baptised!”, that Jesus’ word of forgiveness is for me, even if I have nothing to show for him in return.

    And anyway, what produces faith is not the statement, “the gospel saves”, but Jesus’ statement to you as the gospel is proclaimed: “I forgive you, I have baptised you, this is my body and blood given for the forgiveness of your sins”, and so on. At the moment those words are spoken to you (or brought back to your mind by the Holy Spirit), you can be 100% sure that those words are spoken to you and for you by Jesus himself.

    It is not abstract statements about the gospel that we need, but the gospel itself.

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98. Wow. Thank you for this comment. You don’t hear this every day.

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99. With all due respect and I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate, but my number one issue with Christians before I became one is that they behaved no better (and many times worse, for they had the get-out-of-hell card) than non-Christians.

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100. #4… “you, through Him”…or “He, through you?”

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101. By my comment, I mean or ask: “Why do you go there? And go there ‘often’?”

     Are you “mental” (as we used to say)? 🙂

     (My smilies are only half-smilies, because I don’t understand why you would repeatedly do this to yourself. Because I’ve been there! And it’s not fun. Or productive. Or useful. Or spiritual.)

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102. When I read this comment this morning, I immediately returned in my mind to my last visit to a church near me, a church I often attend when I am not preaching elsewhere. One thing about this church is predictable: I will hear about the necessity that my behavior must change. I must attend church more. I must do more church-related work. I must give more and witness more (and this despite that I am a full time missionary teacher working with mostly non-Christian teenagers.) I must support the church more. It is a constant example of the “church shaped spirituality” you’ll be hearing about in my book. Everything is about behavior. Behavior that must change. What I must feel. What God requires of me. When I leave I am, literally, beaten down.

     You, sir, are a masochist. 🙂

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103. …driven, not drove. Doh!

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104. Has anyone read Bryan Chapell’s book, “Sanctification by Grace”? I think it brings in a reformed (Calvinist) perspective on this, rather than leaving Luther as the lone voice crying in the wilderness on this subject. Chapell quotes heavily from Walter Marshall’s “Gospel Mystery of Sanctification”, which dealt with the issue of behavior modification leading to the infamous “Puritan Despair”. Apparently, Marshall wrote his book because some in his congregation had grown so desperate that they were drove to the point of suicide. C.J. Mahaney’s “Cross-Centered Life” also speaks against such legalism. I’m not young, restless, or reformed, but I think there is a lot more agreement on this topic than may be apparent, and that one can defend a grace-based view of sanctification without being Lutheran.

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105. Outstanding Article , I considered it exceptional

     I look forward to more great postings like this one. Do you have a subscription I can subscribe to for updates?

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106. Mick, I really like what you say here about justification and santification not being seperate things, but merely different ways to define the same process that occurs when we are “in Christ”. Perhaps it’s just the old Greek habit of defining everything in the universe seperately and autonomously that has locked Christian theology into these “one or the other” or “both at the same time” or “a bit of both” explanations. Sometimes, I think we forget how much of an absolutely inexplicable paradox Jesus and His gospel really are — and I think we too often choose to stay on the boat with our safe and well-defined theological constructs, when Jesus is beckoning us come out and join Him in the dangerous, unpredictable waters of Spirit-led life, where only reliance on Him will keep us from drowning. But the safety of the boat is an illusion. Really, it’s a choice of either trusting Jesus in the here and now or going down with the boat later when self-generated works and will power and intellectual ability and ritual substitutes have all played out and been proven worthless.
     I think it comes down to a matter of spiritual geography. “In Christ” and “In the Spirit” are a place we’ve been invited to live and stay, where there is no longer any condemnation or curse of the law. I might go so far as to say that being “in Christ” — believing in Him, trusting in Him, following Him, learning to hear His voice and know His heart and mind, and, in the process, being transformed more and more into His likeness — is the very definition of salvation. It’s what salvation is made of, if you will.
     The problem is that while accepting Jesus’s invitation to come live in Him is relatively easy, staying in Him is another matter. The truth is that, in Christ or not, we’re still going to screw up from time to time (or every few seconds), and just like our physical parents, Adam and Eve, our natural inclination is to run and hide, rather than endure the presence of the one who sees into the very bottom of our hearts and minds. But, unlike our worldly parents, Jesus has given us His own blood as our covering — which, unlike the first covering of animal skins, is more than adequate to keep us in a reconciled relationship with Him. We no longer have to face exile from His saving presence because of sin. All we have to do is the opposite of hiding from His presence, which merely involves coming to Him, being real and honest with Him, and accepting His forgiveness. And, even when we do flee from His presence, He’s the kind of shepherd who goes out and pursues straying sheep.
     I’m starting to think that much of what this religion we call Christianity has become amounts to substituting other things — be they theological constructs, religious traditions and rituals, or a strict program of good works — for the spiritual reality of being in Christ. And I think part of the reason for this is that we’re still running from that initial, deep-rooted fear and discomfort that all sinfull beings experience in His presence — kind of like the way some people obstinately avoid going to the doctor when they’re sick or the dentist when they have a rotten tooth. Truth be told, we’re probably more like addicts, who invent every kind of excuse why we don’t have a problem and why we don’t need to be changed at the very root of who we are. And we fool ourselves into believing that frequent doses of religion will cure our disease. In a way, we’re still building religious temples and expecting God to come occupy the works of our hands and intellects — all the while God is inviting us to come dwell in Him so that He can dwell in us.

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107. K. Now I rant. Behavior modification has NOTHING to do with the gospel! The gospel plus anything else added to it is NOT the gospel! Salvation cannot be earned no matter what. If I approach scripture tabula rassa I think that is one thing I can walk away with clearly. Even if we are saved through works, it still cannot be earned. It is my understanding that encountering the grace of God changes our heart and motivates us to do things we ordinarily wouldn’t. I really like Wesley’s definition of grace that was something about the power from God to live a more godly life than you otherwise ever could have. You can work as hard as you want but it will never produce faith. Scripture is also pretty clear that faith itself is a gift (Ephesians 2:8,9).
     My pastor always says that anything that starts with “self” is sin: self-esteem, self-control, self-denial, while all seemingly good “works”, they utterly fall short of what a Christian is called to: Denial of self. Immersion into Christ. You know when you meet somebody like that because, as Steve Brown says, they kinda smell like Jesus. It is this constant effort of trying to make ourselves Christ-like that results in the un-believing world more readily identifying Christians with self-righteousness rather than Christ-likeness. To Hades with all my works. Give me Jesus.

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108. ditto.

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109. I agree that we walk too easily over that passage in James. I understand that scripture must interpret scripture, but that one just makes me worry. It seems pretty clear. It’s almost as if I want to believe the reformed view but still practice the Catholic one just in case….

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110. BTW, for clarification, not the law vs. grace, or, law-gospel-law but law-gospel-ongoing relationship with God

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111. I tried the “required behavior modification” road for most of my life. By God’s grace, maybe one day I’ll recover from that trip.

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112. I wish I was certain as you in keeping justification and sanctification so distinct. I’ve been taught this much of my life but as I listen to Jesus, John, James, (even Paul in some places), I hear them as less separable. I do not believe sanctification is a “suped up” version of behavior modification but is the Spirit working in me to produce fruit with the DNA of Jesus, not me (old self). Love calls me to response, not to a one time transaction but to an ongoing relationship of loving obedience to the Person who is “full of grace and truth”. The Person who is Love and grace reaches out to me and bids me welcome. He also offers the gift of faith so I can say “yes” to his gracious invitation – and – to continue saying yes. Sanctification is my cooperation with the Holy Spirit to continue saying yes to Jesus in word and deed. Someone behind a pulpit (or my own little pharisee guy) yelling at me to jump thru more hoops is not the one in charge of this but the Lord himself. For me, I have a difficult time separating his saving work from his sanctifying life. The “new person” I am in Christ says “I do” at the altar and is learning to be committed to a life long marriage of love and fidelity. God is with me and for me to accomplish this through Christ both in nailing my old self to the cross and raising up a new self who is ready to do good works (of love).

     How far apart are we on this? I may be theologizing beyond my intelligence but I find I wrestle on either side of this fence.

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113. Michael, your post, and the comments so far, have done my heart a great deal of good.
     Right now I don’t feel alone.

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114. Tim W, with all due respect, your position can only lead to despair. For who am I to judge “fruit”? And if I, with my endless capacity for self-deceit, cannot judge it adequately with regard to myself, who else is qualified to look at me and judge accurately? And suppose I can identify some evidence of better character or whatnot in my life. What happens to my assurance when I meet a coworker who cares nothing at all for Christ who far surpasses me in that very character quality? After 35 years of being a Christian and in ministry, I will take my stand with Luther and his reading of the Gospel. When I look at myself in any realistic way, I see only a sinner. When I look at Christ, I see God’s righteousness extended to me, the sinner. I go to worship each week, hold out my hands in faith, and receive the good news again and again through word and sacrament, and then I arise and go into the world again, simultaneously a sinner and one who is justified in Christ.

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115. I am so going to use that!

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116. I look forward to sharing this post with many friends. Excellent as usual. I finally ended up getting Rod’s “Gospel for those broken by the church.” Highly, highly recommend it. When I think of words of comfort from scripture I always come back to Isaiah 26:12. “O Lord, you will ordain peace for us, for you have indeed done for us all our works.” What more needs to be said? That, and that alone, is my rest. Anything else is bound and determined to fail and fail me bad.

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117. i think the biggest problem is that people focus on the past instead of the present. i don’t believe we are just “saved” but also “being saved” everyday. another problem is the legalism. we should look at santification as ‘being healed’ instead of laws that are broken. I am constantly wounding myself but Jesus is the cure for my self-inficted disease. the reformed church has a flaw that always shows itself, it pedels “cheap grace”. the ecumenicalpilgrim was right earlier to point to James, anabaptist’s like myself love James because it shows that God thru his divine plan allows us to serve with him in his Kingdom. I can’t see why this should “beat someone down”. we should look at discipleship as a blessing not a curse. I think George Macdonald said it best that “God is easy to please, but hard to satisfy”. This is not a negative, this is the Good News that Jesus uses flawed people like us for his Kingdom. he took the Laws that we were slave to & made them into principles that we live by. and by obeying his principles with the knoledge of his forgiveness we are free. peace

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118. “Then, why, for the love of God, do we preach all manner of behavior modification, none of which could save a single one of us, when only the gospel saves.”

     The statement “the gospel saves” is a faith statement. The gospel saves, but it is all theoretical. I don’t know 100% for sure that the gospel is going to save me.

     This is why I MUST be able to see some kind of positive change in my life here and now, not after I die. I need that in order to keep me going and know I’m on the right track. “Fruit” and whatnot. Without the fruit, Christianity just feels like words. It becomes like a car with no wheels.

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119. “Change, whether in behavior, motivation or any other area of the Christian life, comes by faith in Christ and living communion with Christ in the new creation.”

     Amen

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120. Sorry, the choice of the word “redeem” in my last paragraph was sloppy; I didn’t mean to imply that our sanctification actually redeems our original sin… I just meant that even the knowledge of good and evil is set aright through the grace of God.

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121. Your right. I should have been more specific. None the less, I feel my arguments regarding why it should be preached are valid.

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122. Just to be precise, I said reformation confessions, not limited to reformed. I am more interested in Lutherans and Anglicans.

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123. Michael, a very good post and a reminder to all of us who preach and teach in congregations that if we are not careful we can obscure the Gospel with another message. This other message, unfortunately, is one that far too many people hear week after week in some churches. It often focuses on what needs to be done without focusing one the power to do it, the Holy Spirit himself.

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124. I understand how the Reformed track of systematic theology operates. Although I think that Reformed Christians walk far too easily over James 2:24 (You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone – NRSV). None the less, I am a Anabaptist so I hold the standard protestant interpretation of this verse (albeit with a tinge of caution).

     I am mainly just noting that James gives us a clear example that Christian behavior is not only important, it must be preached. One could even go so far as to say that the author of James was pressing with such firm declarations because his recipients were NOT preaching the importance of sanctification.

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125. The desert fathers said things along the lines of sanctification being a pursuit destined to fail (i.e., always imperfect) but well worth doing. Also, they said that the very fact that one faces failure and despair in sanctification (or “behavior modification”) is a confirmation of salvation. If one never felt the struggle and felt the pain of losing at times, one should doubt whether one is truly justified in the first place. These statements are not meant to be theologically precise, but I think the sentiment seems fitting here.

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126. “But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil” (Hebrews 5:14)
     “Practice” and “senses trained” remind me that sanctification is going to be a process, which also implies an initially imperfect effort, with improvement over time.
     BTW, “discern good and evil” also sounds like something much grander than just being a doer of the law (an incredibly high goal in itself – Romans 2:13); it seems to redeem even mankind’s failure in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:5).

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127. Michael, I just read “Reclaiming the Doctrine of Justification” by Rod Rosenbladt which you recommened above. I loved this part, “A friend of mine was walking down the streets of Minneapolis one day and was confronted by an evangelical brother who was very anxious to know whether he was saved and asked just that. “Brother, are you saved?” Hal rolled his eyes back and said, “Yes.” That didn’t satisfy this brother so he said, “Well when were you saved?” Hal said, “About two thousand years ago, about a twenty minutes’ walk from downtown Jerusalem.”

     I am going to remember that if anyone asks me if I am saved!

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128. Well, if you are going to have some coherence in scripture you are going to have to decide how certain statements in James fit into the overall message of the faith. We can let the texts speak, but at some point text and text, book and book must come together into something.

     You won’t be surprised that the reformation confessions navigate those waters by making the grace of God and the primacy of justification by faith (not works) their chosen interpretation. The Catholic interpretation sees James as a final refutation of the reformation Gospel, with justification by works meaning the Catholic understanding. Most Protestants believe James and Paul are in sync on the subject of living faith. Look at the 39 Articles of the Church of England and its statements on Justification and the place of works. Classic Protestantism.

     A James dominated Christianity would place the emphasis on ascertaining living faith via examining life for evidence of living faith as works. In the view of the reformation, assurance can never be found in works, though evidence of lively faith can be found in them.

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129. So how do we hand the message of James. Clearly James was actually concerned about Christian behavior. Not only did he teach it with strong conviction, his teaching became recorded as part of holy scripture.

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130. Scott, I think you may find Tim Keller’s preaching lectures helpful on this (google ’em). Briefly, (and crudely) he suggests a model along the lines of:
     1. Here’s what this text calls you to do
     2. But you can’t do it!
     3. However, Jeaus did it for you
     4. That’s why now you, through Him, can do it

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131. Perfect thats helpful, thanks for the clarification!

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132. Repentance is a natural and necessary part of faith, but here we go: it is an imperfect human work. Only the Gospel’s announcement of the perfect positive obedience of Jesus can give me assurance. On what day can I look at my repentance and say I have the glad announcement that God has done everything for my salvation? Repentance is turning to take that gift and the necessary turning from sin, but it is not faith. Repentance is not faith That’s not the reformation Gospel. It is a friend that always accompanies the Gospel, but it is not a friend we trust in.

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133. U2’s When Love Comes to Town kinda portrays my response to the Gospel, especially this version with Jonny Lang & Phil Keaggy 🙂

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134. post-evangelical turned lutheran here. ’nuff said.

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135. Isn’t repentance a part of justification and couldn’t that be considered Behavior change? Or can one be justified without any repentance?

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136. Michael, I hear you, man do I hear you. I needed this today.

     What I struggle with is how to preach biblical texts without laying upon them a law/gospel paradigm that isn’t there. I mean sometimes I feel like I make the exhortation of Scripture and then follow it up with “but if you can’t pull ths off don’t worry about, Jesus has you covered.” Funny thing is though – He does! I don’t put it like that exactly, but I fear that is the way it comes off.

     Can you give any advice here? I find properly preaching the law and gospel a very challenging thing to do.

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137. When I read this comment this morning, I immediately returned in my mind to my last visit to a church near me, a church I often attend when I am not preaching elsewhere. One thing about this church is predictable: I will hear about the necessity that my behavior must change. I must attend church more. I must do more church-related work. I must give more and witness more (and this despite that I am a full time missionary teacher working with mostly non-Christian teenagers.) I must support the church more.

     In other words, no matter what you do, it will NEVER be enough. You will NEVER be good enough.

     (Something I’m very familiar with as a fast-tracked kid genius.)

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138. Many folks should find lots of red meat for active sanctification in Ryle, but he does us all the favor of keeping Biblical and reformational categories clear. That’s why it is so helpful. It’s not an active passive thing in sanctification, but how we relate it to justification and assurance.

     Sanctification NEVER provides a ground for assurance. It’s incomplete, etc.

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139. It never ceases to amaze me how frightened many of my friends are of this idea that we can rest in our salvation, and that if our behavior changes, it changes as a result–and not a prerequisite–of the grace we receive freely in Jesus Christ.

     What is sad to me is that many of them really believe that they’ve got to explain to me (and everyone else) how exactly we should be living.

     Listen, when I get the Gospel–those moments when I REALLY get the incredible, deep, grace of a Father who quite rightly knows that I deserve justice and judgement instead–it drives me to be better, to be more gracious, to make more and more righteous choices to be more like the family into which I’ve been adopted. That doesn’t mean I always make it, but I always rest in His grace, and I try again.

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