By Chaplain Mike
Stopped into a church I passed along the way.
Well, I got down on my knees
And I pretend to pray.
You know the preacher likes the cold.
He knows I’m gonna stay
California dreamin’ on such a winter’s day.
It’s not winter yet, but earlier today I wrote about how the year is falling in the midst of the drought we’re having right now. So forgive me if I stay inside and start dreamin’ a little bit early.
Since I left the pastorate nearly six years ago, I’ve been asked a few times why I don’t start a church. When someone reads what I write about being in “the post-evangelical wilderness” and lamenting not finding a church home, they say, “Why not start your own?” I guess it’s the American way. It’s actually part of the “evangelical” of which I am “post-.”
One of my chief complaints about our evangelical movement is its penchant for the the do-it-yourself church. American evangelicalism may be more American than evangelical in this regard—it celebrates the innovator, the entrepreneur, the guy who can come up with a good idea and sell it. The church growth movement that was born in the 1970’s and that has morphed into a variety of church-marketing philosophies has considered this foundational truth. You must identify your target audience and get a gifted, charismatic leader to give ’em what they want. You can build a tower clear up to heaven that way.
I haven’t wanted any part of that. My response has been to say that I don’t believe any longer in “build your own” church. I want to find a historic tradition in which I can find a home. I want something with roots long and deep as well as something spiritually authentic in the here and now.
However, this hasn’t stopped me (in private moments) from imagining what kind of church I would like to be in as a pastor if I could design it from scratch. Perhaps sharing a bit of my ecclesiastical dreamin’ could prompt us all to dream a little more and work a little harder for a better church wherever God leads us.
My church would be built on four pillars:
- Tradition
- Communion
- Formation
- Vocation
• Tradition. The foundation of the church would be the teaching of the Bible, as summarized in the ecumenical creeds of the church. Her theological position would be what Thomas Oden calls, “Classic Christianity
• Communion. The primary meeting of the church would be for worship through Word and Sacrament each Sunday. The service would be intentionally liturgical (in contrast to being unintentionally liturgical!). The basic traditional form of the liturgy would be followed: (1) Gathering, (2) Word, (3) Table, (4) Sending, with flexibility in particular elements for the seasons of the Christian year. Thus, each Sunday, the congregation would reenact and celebrate Christ and the Gospel story. Various styles of music and worship elements would be used, representing the finest offerings from the church of all ages and the church around the world.
• Formation. The church’s “program” for its members would be built around personal and community formation. The personal focus would be on helping individuals develop a conversational relationship with God and engage in the spiritual practices that will help them grow in Christ. The community focus would be on helping people make meaningful connections and learn to practice the “one another” instructions of the New Testament in their relationships with each other. The primary method for doing this would be through pastoral visitation and spiritual direction for individuals, families, and small groups.
• Vocation. The majority of the church’s mission, it would be emphasized, would be accomplished through the ordinary daily life and work of congregation members in the community. The “formation” ministry of the church would exist primarily to equip people to find their callings and be better servants of Christ in the world each day. On occasion, the church as a whole would sponsor special service projects in order that individual efforts might be multiplied through a cooperative approach. In a few instances, these might turn into lasting ministries for the benefit of the community.
A Neighborhood Church
One final thing I would say is that I dream of this church being a neighborhood church with a worldwide heart. It would be established in a community and have a distinct geographical parish in which to minister. Its members would come from the neighborhood and the people of the neighborhood would recognize the church as a fellowship of people that cares about their neighbors and is available to serve them when they have needs. But the church would also be aware of God’s mission all around the world, and in fellowship with mission partners who are advancing the Kingdom far and wide.
Well, that’s the short version of “dreaming my dreams with you.” Let me know what you think.
The Internet Monk Archives 
Indeed, it very much does sound like an LCMS congregation. 🙂
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I might also be an ecclesiastical dreamer but I dream of the days when there will be a faithful, parish church in or near every neighborhood. I know it’s a big dream and requires much work but I hope that with ACNA’s Anglican1000 initiative and the AMiA, and most importantly, with God’s grace, we can witness to our neighborhoods and create genuine, Christian communities united in Word and Sacrament.
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We’re in a little oasis place right now.
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I’d go there. But…if one started a church like that as a new independent plant it already would not be grounded in tradition.
I hope you are able to partake of some kind of church fellowship because when working with the wounded as you do you need spiritual support.
The church our family goes to doesn’t seem to do any of those 4 things but it is able to love.
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Hi Phil,
I agree, although I often feel there is quite a bit of confusion between “emotion-led” and “Spirit-led” in many churches.
I lean Lutheran, while my wife is more of a traditional evangelical. We also both have some Charismatic background. While looking for some middle ground we stumbled upon an AMiA (Anglican Mission in America) church plant that values “three streams, one faith” – Liturgical, evangelical, charismatic. We decided to visit and were blown away by how enthusiastic the liturgy could be! Spontaneous prayer, freedom in worship, and the laying on of hands all peacefully coexisting with and complementing the traditional liturgy, which provided an ordered and theologically sound framework for the entire service.
More than that, there was an obvious effort to be fully Trinitarian, Gospel focused, and theologically orthodox without elevating non-essential doctrine above unity and grace.
For the first time I really saw how Traditional and Spirit-filled are hardly contradictory — they are meant to be together!
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As soon as you started a new church it would begin it’s decline, even formed along the principles you outline. It’s the nature of our fallen humanity. We will screw it up. For many years, I engaged in such thought experiments, and as I am sure you well know, only Christ started the Church.
Theologian Stanley Hauerwas has a “law” about marriage: “You always marry the wrong person.” What he means by this is that we learn to love the other not because they are like us but because they are not. It’s the same way with churches. Pick one that is Nicene (little o) orthodox, commit to it, focus on Whom you are worshiping (not where), and learn to love those who are there and help direct it and shape it in the direction the Holy Spirit leads.
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But she’s not buying it, I forgot to add 🙂
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Yes, the fall and spring are wonderful and the winters are mild (everyone takes off work and stays home if there’s 1″ of snow) but the summers can be miserable. Because I want to move to Canada actually, I keep telling my wife that people deal with northern winters the same way they deal with southern summers.
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Thanks for the thought, Steve, but you’re right about the wishful thinking- orthodox neighbors? Don’t know of any! Hope it’s different where you are!
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Deal, Fish! I hear the weather’s a tad less harsh, too…..
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I’ll bust you off an email once we get out of the planning-to-plan stages
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I think that Confessional Lutheranism might be what the 4 pillars require. I know that Tradition and Communion can be found with ease. Formation and Vocation are coming as we become more comfortable with our own “skin”. Vocation is going to grow as we are able to form Confessional Classical Schools. I think a Neighborhood churches can be found in small towns and I think if we crush the church growth streak Neighborhood churches will extend their reach.
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Forgive me for my blunt response. Thank you for looking through my emotion to true see what I was intending.
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…and I never noticed any differences in how much they emphasized Christ. But I might have missed that, and anyway each local church is different to some extent.
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No, no–you’re probably right. I guess I wasn’t paying enough attention to the theological differences.
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I think you are right in that style is largely arbitrary. Organs, choirs, and priests who wear dresses are targeting a certain demographic too (or several of them). They are the spiritual equivalent of “comfort food,” and to some, also have a certain snob appeal, like ascots and Ivy League diplomas.
That said, different kinds of church have their characteristic weaknesses and shortcomings, whether because of governance, or the general church culture. If I told you that this morning, a clergyman had been caught skimming church funds off to a Mexican bank account, you wouldn’t immediately think of the Catholics (although this was in fact the case in the example that I’m remembering).
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With the “filioque” recited every other Sunday!
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Fr Chris and others:
I see some of you are working on Anglican church plants. We are in the process of starting to get something going in our area of Canada under Anglican Network in Canada.
I would love to correspond with you or anyone who is doing something similar.
I can be reached at: mobileknight@gmail.com
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I might add that in America Orthodox churches tend to be organized by which of the patriarchs their church was born from. E.g. there may be three Orthodox parishes in a given city, but they may be part of three different “dioceses.” One might be Russian and belong to the Othodox Church in America, one might be Greek and belong to the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, etc. I think they had at one time intended to form a multi-rite American Archdiocese, but some things broke down during the formation. Essentially, each archdiocese in America seems to be a missionary work from the various autocephalous parent church.
Actually, now that I think about it, ACNA looks similar to the Orthodox in this respect.
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The Anglican Church in North America is not yet organized in that geographic diocesan model. When ACNA formed about two years ago, it formed out of a whole mess of missionary arms from various Global South provinces as well as a few American splinter groups. Currently, each diocese is organized along those former organizations. E.g. the folks who had come from Nigeria (as well as their new church plants) are all part of the Convocation of Anglicans in North America. My understanding is that the traditional geographic organization is an eventual goal. However, i think it’s a ways off still.
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I was talking with a young man about 20 years of age a few weeks ago, who is a student at a rather well known Christian college in Indiana. His father works for the college, so he grew up in the town. From childhood he has attended a community church with a well known pastor. He loves the church because this is where he was nurtured in the faith. However it is changing in ways that really concern him, most notably in style of worship and music. He doesn’t really like the modern penchant for singing empty choruses over and over and what he sees as an attempt at entertainment rather than worship.
He knows the local Methodist pastor and has been attending that church at times. This church is starting to attract more worshipers. He likes the traditional music and the more liturgical style of worship. This may be his church in the future.
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Chaplain Mike, as much as I like “dreamin” as you do, the question I am currently wrestling with over “form” is more basic. As I get older I wonder if an arrogant sense of “what should be” hasn’t clouded my judgment about “what best meets the need” of unchurched, barely churched and formerly churched people as well as those who are already established and need pastoring. The fruit of the church growth movement would be an obvious example.
The irony about “marketing” a certain concept of church, especially when some fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals criticize it, is that they can market their own concept of the church. It’s just targeting a different demographic, namely the type of people who tend to dislike the Bill Hybels, Rick Warrens, etc.
I attended a local mega-church for several months because I thought I was basically prejudiced toward churches of that type. I’m still mulling over what I saw. But I realized how easy it had been to assume I knew better what people needed, and that bothers me.
I’m looking for some help here. Any insights, correction, etc. would be appreciated.
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When I was reading this, I was brought to mind of a number of people of my acquaintance, and of what appears to be either an anomaly or a new paradigm. A number of my mainline Protestant acquaintances were leaving the Presbyterian/Reformed, Lutheran and Methodist churches for one of two places. They were becoming any of several strains of evangelical (many with “Baptist” or non-denominational appearing in the name), often enough with a friendly local pastor who made the right appeal at the right time.
The others were leaving to become Catholic, with a few dropping into the Episcopal Church and then some of those leaving that location for Rome.
A few months back, Chaplain Mike noted a book by a man who was touting the consideration that a creed, such as the Apostles or Nicene, would be beneficial to evangelicalism. Unfortunately for those who believe that the Church failed upon the death of the last apostle, or early thereafter, it would tie them to the early Church fathers, and perhaps one or more of the general councils of the early Church. For people who have rejected the fathers and the councils as anathema, that would be a problem.
For people such as Chaplain Mike, who want a liturgy, a regular (weekly?) Lord’s Supper, the practice of Christian seasons (eg, Advent/Christmas, Lent/Easter) and “regular time,” and are willing to conform at least some of the readings to support the seasonal considerations (a form of tradition), it is a return of sorts.
Since both Luther and Calvin were willing to accept at least portions of several of the early general councils of the Church, it might be some sort of vindication, whether or not the Lutheran or Presbyterian/Reformed churches get a benefit from it.
I’ll be interested in what occurs. It actually seems to be a question about a location. Will we draw closer to or further from Rome? Perhaps some of us will be like the internet monk and his wife. He could not be Catholic and she could not be otherwise. That seems to me to be apocalyptic, albeit not like Hal Lindsay envisioned that time.
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Absolutely disagree Buford. All believe in the solas, but not all preach about the cross, week in, week out. His body and blood for me a sinner. Him for me. Instead the other mainlines I have attended preach and focus on us for Him (that cross justification thing saved you, now move on the true meat of the Christian faith, your personal sanctification).
If one believes that we are justified and then we should serve God, than the church thing is works and all the formalities of the church are viewed as work.
If one views justification and sanctification as the continual gifts of Christ’s grace for us in word/sacrament and are growing dependence on them than the “Church thing” is Christs gifts, not works.
I have come to these conclusions from time spent in Anglican (London), Free Evangelical, Christian Reformed Church, and some sermons in AOG and having a brother and father within these denominations (in depth discussions too). The contrast is striking after being in an LCMS young church for 4 years. The last time I was at a one of these congregations, I asked my wife what she noticed differently from ours, “they did not talk about the cross, just about me”. I’m sorry if this is elitest/inflammatory/etc but your comment of blanket similarity is not true. You are certainly free to argue one approach is better than the other but they are not similar. Peanut butter and Jam.
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I don’t believe the hit-or-miss approach or quarterly communion (whether you need it or not) has Prebyterian or even Calvinistic origins. I thought I read somewhere that Calvin actually believed in frequent communion. The PCUSA church a block from my house has a sign out front reading, “Communion every Sunday”.
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I’d gladly join your dream my friend 🙂
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There’s no good choice for me in, or even near, my neighborhood. I cannot in good conscience give my money or my time to mainline denominational churches who continue to think it’s just dandy to mutilate and murder babies in their mother’s womb. The right to life ought to be one of your ideals, too.
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Ha! I have to get up early and drive 30 miles to the nearest liberal church for the sake of my kid too. I’ll move to Michigan and you can move to Arkansas.
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Maybe it’s just wishful thinking but I wonder if all your orthodox-believing neighbors walked to the neighborhood church, would it remain liberal?
You have a good point about protecting your kids’ faith.
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• Tradition. The foundation of the church would be the teaching of the Bible, as summarized in the ecumenical creeds of the church. Her theological position would be what Thomas Oden calls, “Classic Christianity,†which is “an ordered view of the faith of the Christian community upon which there has generally been substantial agreement between the traditions of East and West, including Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox.†Emphasis would be on studying the Bible, and particularly on how to approach and study the Bible. Church history, the history of interpretation, and theology would figure prominently in the teaching ministry of the church. Parents would catechize their children; young people would be confirmed. Questions would be encouraged, and differing viewpoints within the bounds of Christian tradition would be presented with respect.
It would be great to have everyone who taught at the church deeply schooled in Church History before they were allowed to teach. One thing that really goads me is the utter lack of historical understanding and the fact that most teachers I have been around do not ever care for the history of the Church. This Gospel ship has got a long way to go on its voyage and knowing where it has stopped in its 2000 year infancy of the past will help set the course for the future to mature into the undivided body of Christ as long as its sails are hoisted high to catch the spirit as it comes and goes.
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I couldn’t get the audio to work. I’ll have to mess with it later. I’d love to hear some new settings for some of the psalms and canticles 🙂
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Well the four pillars are in essence what I have tried to do with my ministry, but then I’m Lutheran so it is kind of a given.
I see this actually as a strength of denominations, or can be. They aren’t trying to reinvent the wheel and they foster community rather than tearing it down. Church isn’t for one particular demographic but the whole of the community, grandchildren to great grand parents all worshiping together.
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How fortunate you must be to live that close to an orthodox-believing church. I would love to walk to church; the churches within walking distance to me are so liberal, I might as well not go at all. We live in Michigan (very liberal), and drive 30 miles to the nearest “real” church, which is important, especially for the sake of my kids’ faith. Believe me, I wish I didn’t have to drive that far! Apparently, getting up 30 minutes earlier and spending more in gas to get to church makes me one of those self-centered, selfish American Christians. If I lived in a Third-World country and did the same thing, it would be considered a “sacrifice” and “pilgrimage”. Oh, well.
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I’m a fan of the old parish system. One cathedral, many parish churches.
Isn’t that the arrangement of every Catholic, Anglican, and Orthodox diocese?
Tradition, Communion, Formation, Vocation — sounds like St Boniface where I attend Mass every Sunday. Being Romish, we’re pretty big & steady on Tradition & Communion. A little iffy on Formation & Vocation, but we DO make the effort; whether the parishoners catch the ball and run with it is another thing, and varies all over the place.
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Sean, it sounds like at an early point in your career, you already see the problems with “creative” church. I am all for people using artistic gifts God has given them, but the current method of being creative to draw a crowd is not working. The truth of the creative churches is that turnover is incredible. One church I was involved with had 50% turnover every 6 months. No discipleship can occur at that turnover rate.
Find a ‘boring’ traditional/denominational/historical church and dedicate your life to getting deeply involved in peoples lives. The illustration I use is that you can go from a series of dating/roomate relationships, or you can get married for a lifetime. One may be more creative and drive a rush of hormones and emotions, but the 2nd option is much better for life.
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I thought the same thing.
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Accordian? …whew! I almost signed up. :>)
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I agree with you, Daily Office is a wonderful gift to spiritual formation practices. It saddens me that attendance goes down on the Sundays that we only have Morning Prayer. It’s so beautiful.
Not to go off topic, but are you familiar with this online daily office? The short lesson that comes with the email every morning is really pretty good. I like the fact that you can click and listen to hymns and the sung Venite and Gloria, for example.
http://www.missionstclare.com/english/October/morning/12m.html.
I live in a remote area, so I’m pretty much rooted in an Episcopal diocese. Would love to be able to worship with more vibrant Anglican communities, as those churches DO seem modeled after Chaplain Mike’s ideal, particularly strong in the area of formation and vocation.
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As someone who looks forward to a lifetime of ministry/service, whether it be vocational or lay, I can’t tell you how unsettling the pressure to be “creative” is.
It seems (emphasis there) like the people who are doing the most for the Kingdom are the most creative. New ideas. Entrepreneurial. A new idea to approach people about the Gospel, a new idea to draw people to church, a new idea for how to do church, a new idea for a book or website, a new idea for how to help the poor … I can’t keep up. I love to get involved with people, but I’m not entrepreneurial. So I resonate with Chap. Mike’s dream here a bit. And yet I constantly think about how to reach people,I still fear something like this won’t work, at least in my context. My discipleship regarding outreach and ministry has been so impacted by advertising, campaigning, and hype (usually under the auspice of “inviting” to something they’ll like). I hate it, but I think I unconsciously revert to it. I want the community model, where people can come, experience a loving community, and experience something more transcendent than they’re used to … where the presentation of God will unsettle, the message of hope will intrigue them, and the love of the people will draw them back.
But the “how to get people” thing is always casting a shadow for me.
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We’re in the early stages of something similar (also Anglican). Our parish has a membership of around 300, but plans on planting several churches over the next few years. We’ve got four or five guys (including me) that are in the early stages of discernment for ordination, and I think the goal is for us to head up those eventual plants. Who knows exactly how the Lord will do any of this, but I picture the plants being small neighborhood things like Chap describes in the original post. Likely they will start as home groups.
One thing I definitely want to do is have the traditional form of Anglican spiritual formation: the daily office, even if it’s only done with the whole group once a week or so. Since the daily office is based around reading the Scriptures, hopefully that will also help foster much-needed scriptural literacy.
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“the ‘church’ thing going on”….sadly, I would have to agree in a large majority of cases.
Always have a problem with an “all” though.
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Thanks, Lee. Prayers and blessings for your efforts!
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Great perspective, both historical and experiential, Fr. Chris. Thanks so much.
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CM, thanks so much for verbalizing what’s on my own heart, and the hearts of many others. After years of ministering in churches where “numbers growth” was the emphasis, I find myself leading a small group of 8-10 in my living room, that we hope will grow into an Anglican church plant in Athens, GA. (shameless plug…If you’re in the area, and interested, let me know…pastorlee122@yahoo.com).
We had a great discussion Sunday night about building “A” church for the express purpose of buidling “The” Church. Whether we’re 8 members or 80, we’ve at least decided in theory that we must grow ourselves spiritually and be outreach-minded, living out our faith amongst those we have immediate contact with; focusing on target areas where there are spiritual or felt needs outside of our direct circle of influence (we’re going to adopt a UGa group we have connections with, and participate in a local homeless ministry); and more ideas are developing on how to make Christ incarnate in our little corner of the world. As far as corporate worship, we envision a church where families can walk to church together, a church that builds community in order to become the center of a community.
I’ll definitely be referring our little group to this piece. Great work, CM.
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I think your list of four pillars resonates with me, although I think I might add a fifth on to my list – sensitivity to the Spirit, or perhaps “Spirit-led”. That may fit under “formation”, but being Pentecostal, I don’t think I could be part of a church that minimizes the work of the Holy Spirit as a living and active member of the Godhead. I don’t mean simply in the sense of spiritual gifts, but as a dynamic, driving force behind what the church does.
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Chaplain Mike,
Thank you for this post. I have truly enjoyed reading it. I have had a similar journey but I am a talker and not a writer so I will not type it out:)
However, for many of the reasons you have stated I became an Anglican priest. We celebrate the Holy Eucharist every Sunday and we are trying to plant one parish family with multiple congregations (basically the same as a cathedral with a bunch of parish churches that are neighborhood focused). I try and stick with “what was believed by everyone everywhere” (sound like Oden:). We focus heavily on spiritual formation but we combine that always with the sense of formation being done “for the sake of others” which hopefully will allow us to be missional in word and deed.
In the end, though, I think Francis is the saint for our time…or the model. When he was called by Almighty God to rebuild the church it was a church with bishops, priests and deacons. It was big, it was powerful and it was THE game in town. Francis responded by not starting a new church or breaking away but he submitted (Christ’s spirit is a submitting spirit eh:) and “was the change”. To me, this spirit is what is needed more than anything. Another analogy that expresses what I am saying is marriage. It is easier to leave and start a new one then rebuild an existing one. But…that is the call of God. For a marriage to be rebuilt in Him through the pursuit of God and the carrying of His cross. To me, this corresponds directly with the schism that is so prevalent today. Everyone is starting their own thing…
In trying to be obedient to God and planting a church in the northwest I have been stretched beyond measure. We did our first set of confirmations/baptisms and membership on easter after having walked through all of lent with the candidates. Everyone fasted and prayed for Christ to emerge in these candidates and each candidate had a mentor who met with them weekly while preparing them for the Baptismal/Confirmation liturgy. Only to see most of them leave within a few months.
Church is viewed in many ways out here. My experience is that it is seen as something to consume. This area in the NW has a lot of churches and even a lot of big ones. But they are all heavily programmatic and I am concerned (in a pastoral way) that they are making converts more than disciples. These folks who came into the church and left were looking for formation…but on their terms. Once they got what they wanted (baptism of kids and their own formational time through this process) they went their own way. Which is based, I believe, on a second point. Many folks do not like authority and they take the priesthood of all believers to the absolute extreme. Which, in the end, creates the possibility of a unified functional and global Christianity impossible. Hyper individualism is both non Biblical and non tenable when it comes to the church.
Well…this was not supposed to be long…but it has become long. Again, I appreciate your post Mike and I thank God that He has brought you to where you are. May we follow God in the spirit of Francis when it comes to the church. And may God allow us to share that with others.
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Can I be the praise conductor / worship director / accordianist?
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Good luck ,then.
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Okay…to me the mainlines are all similar, apart from local quirks. I mean, they’ve all got the “church” thing going on…
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In the last year, my family moved from a large Lutheran Church (over 1000 in worship weekly) to a small Lutheran Church (about 200 in worship weekly) for several reasons. (BTW, Lutherans can’t do mega churches well since it’s hard to serve Holy Communion to thousands of worshipers in a single worship service) What we found was that members are more involved in each others lives (in a good way), the pastor knows us personally (along with most of the other pastors and we are more involved. The biggest reason is that my son, who suffered from a brain injury, needed a different method to be confirmed in the Christian faith. The small church was able to have an alternative method while the large church struggled to adopt since there are over 60 kids in a given confirmation class. There are several “downsides” which included limited ‘programs” and tighter finances.
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I can find the perfect church, but without love, it means nothing.
In the end, we can put up with a lot of imperfection in form, if we find ourselves among loving people who live Christ.
I will let your painful testimony stand, “Arthur;” believe me I get what you are saying. However, in this post we are dreaming about form too—doing a little exercise in theoretical pastoral theology. I’d like the rest of the discussion to get back to that.
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I think you pegged me, Mick. : ))
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One could do worse. Why, did you want to “nip it in the bud”?
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Church is a joke. I committed adultery in my own church and have realized several things since visiting several Southern Baptist churches in the wake of my own sin.
They’re all the same. Dysfunctional. Horrible. They’re reaching for a standard of perfection on Sunday and every other day of the week they’re full of hypocrisy. I’m the same, don’t get me wrong. But if people could just be as real as they are on Sunday as they are the rest of the week, we’d be doing great.
I grow tired of those who look toward Calvin as the standard for all things. I was one of them. Reformed theology is a fantastic thing. I went to a reformed seminary and found great hope there. But the ends do not justify the means. I preached reformed theology thinking it would fix it all. It doesn’t. If I had it all to do over again, I would try to understand people and not try to force my theology on them first. Preaching theology to people isn’t always the way to fix them. Understanding them is. Unfortunately, we have churches filled with pastors who think theology is going to fix the people in the pews. It’s not gonna. Yes, it’s a good thing to have right theology on Sunday when we preach. However, the uneducated farmer in the pew isn’t going to recognize Calvin from Arminius and he isn’t going to give a darn about it when his marriage is falling apart.
Pastors need to be caring, competent and loving. When we are pastors, we need to be non-judgmental, non-rigid, and understanding of the people in the pew first. Christ loved the woman at the well. He loved the sinner in the public eye. He didn’t care about the theologian. He cared about the pathetic piece of crap first. Not the learned professor.
Just a thought.
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Strongly agree with Clark, above. The neighborhood church is, to my way of thinking, essential. I’m bothered by churches that “move” every few years, and by churches that have moved from the inner cities to the Interstate on the edge of town. Make a commitment to a neighborhood, Serve that community. Grow roots. Stay there. Become an institution that families — generations of families — can count on. Too many churches here in Florida are guilty of moving to where they think the money is.
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1st Ancient-Future Church of Mayberry.
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I second that thought on neighborhood church…I don’t know exactly how or when we drifted from that, but I have a suspicion that God never intended Christians to be going 20-30-60 min away from home in order to fellowship and worship with the ‘brand’ that’s most comfortable…besides being a waste of gas and time, it strikes me as being selfish/self-centered. I do realize that some geographic areas like the prairies, ranch-land, there isn’t a choice, but in most other areas there’s no excuse IMO. I wonder what kind of spiritual growth would occur if we were forced to gather, worship and relate to all followers of Christ near us, no matter the brand. I think it would be earth-shaking and transforming.
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Have to disagree with you, Buford.
It’s very much more Lutheran than Presbyterian. Not a bad thing in my view if it’s LCMS Lutheran.
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Right there with you Clark. To alter your vision just a little, I’m a fan of the old parish system. One cathedral, many parish churches. There is still a place for the large church, especially as a resource for the smaller congregations. But the work of the ministry should be done in the neighborhoods by those who live and worship in them.
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Having been re-formed into Michael Spencer’s image (half joking) I can understand being post- start your own brand. He was especially suspicious of ministries named after people, i.e. Clark Bunch Ministries. After putting your name on the church sign, side of a van and several sizes of letterhead, how could you then focus people’s attention toward Jesus?
But what about churches planting other churches? I’ve heard this described as the antidote for megachurch formation. Rather than go to two Sunday a.m. services, why not start another church in another neighborhood. Instead of having one service in Spanish, why not start, support, and help develop a sister Hispanic church congregation? I know the post was about starting your own, but I’d like to know your thoughts on churches planting other churches within the same community.
Instead of having a Megachurch Sunday service with dozens of small groups that meet throughout the week, what if half a dozen smaller churches were organized? House church is closer to the New Testament model than what most American churches are doing today.
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Workin’ on it, Buford.
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I’m not trying to be disagreeable, but I currently go to a Prebyterian church and the practice of the sacrements is more miss than hit, and tradition is more focused on thier own particular brand, and more specifically why they are not Baptist or Methodist. No sunday school is complete without an explination of predestination. This just my personal exerence in both PCUSA and PCA churches.
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Sounds amazingly healthy.
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In that case, why don’t you join one of the mainlines? What you describe sounds very much like the Presbyterians, to name just one.
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I am dreaming with you. Since no church is perfect, what is most important? I am currently in a church that is doing good with 2,4, but very weak on the bible study of 1, and somewhat weak on 3.
On neighborhood church, I long for the day gasoline is so expensive all churches are neighborhood churches.
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