Open Forum for Pastors

Posted byChaplainmikePosted inOpen Thread

Callin’ all Rev’s!

Today is the day for you: padre, pastor, preacher, priest, parson, minister, rector, reverend, bishop, vicar, or whatever else your title may be.

It’s the day we’re asking clergy to lead the way here on Internet Monk.

We want reports from the front lines of church ministry.

We want you, whom God has called, to tell us what’s happening in your local congregations and ministries around the world.

We want to hear about what it’s like to be the one who wears the robe, the collar, or in some cases the jeans that are ripped just right.

What are your passions, your priorities, your patterns in ministry?

What struggles are you facing?

What are you thinking these days about the Church, and about your own particular tribe in the broader family of God?

What would you like us non-clergy folks to know? How would you like us to pray for you? How can we encourage you?

It’s your day, pastor.

Let us hear from you. This is an Open Forum for you, so fire away.

Along the way, perhaps some of us will be prompted to ask a few questions. But you get the mic today.

43 thoughts on “Open Forum for Pastors”

  1. Hi
    I’m a pastor in Australia, currently in my second church as pastor after an eleven-year stint in my first.

    I’m blown away by the privilege of being freed up to be present in people’s most significant moments in life, as well as in their everyday life.
    Ministering to the dying is perhaps the greatest privilege. To see the comfort the Word gives, and to see faithful Christians love their Lord even to death encourages my faith and helps me to persevere. Leading a funeral is an honour. But I wouldn’t mind doing more weddings!
    We’re currently in the middle of a church discipline issue, with people disrupting the life of the church and causing others to stumble. So I’ll leave a meeting, with them showing bitterness and stubbornness, and visit someone whose spouse has just died and be so encouraged by their straightforward faith and trust. I’m reminded again of what is important.

    It can be a roller-coaster, that’s for sure. But I don’t want to get off.

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  3. Not all younger people prefer the newer stuff, at least not exclusively. I go to an Anglican Mission in America church with a congregation weighted somewhat toward people in their 20s and 30s (we are a relatively recent church, not an Episcopal split). And our music selection is mostly hymns, Psalms and historic prayers adapted to music, and a few newer songs here and there. We do have a band, but it doesn’t draw excessive attention to itself and isn’t overly loud.

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  4. Honestly, I’m not sure it’s healthy to feel like you want to quit and then feel like you “can’t” quit. I’ve been there, and luckily I got moved to a different position. There’s nothing worse than dreading Church, it’s like a transgression of the soul. I spent about 2 years hating my part time job ministry and finally I started looking for other work. When I did that it was like a giant load off my shoulders. Like I said, I got lucky and there were big changes at our church so I stayed in ministry… but I hope you don’t continue to feel like you “can’t” quit.

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  5. Miguel, I hate am extremely jealous of you!

    I totally agree with your and Mike Bell’s point about maintaining the melody of the Hymn even when you modernize. A website I use frequently when I do lead music is Reformed University Fellowship’s “igrace hymnal”. Most of the hymns maintain their character and feel, even though they become guitar centric. Their version of “A Mighty Fortress” thou might be blasphemous to Lutheran ears. lol

    Mike all your suggestion I am doing when I have the talent to do them. And we subscribe to CCLI’s song select. But “Lord, I lift your name on high”… I’d rather play “In the Garden” and I HATE “In the Garden”.

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  6. I have no doubt it can be done, we just lack the musical talent to do it. Our pianist is excellent but the older stuff is clearly her strength. Some of our singers are very “choir” style and have a hard time singing modern songs. The only other guitarist in our church (other than myself) isn’t interested in playing that often, and when he does he prefers to play with his family instead of our regular team. It is great when he joins the team but that’s usually only on holidays. I don’t feel comfortable playing that often because, golly the pastor shouldn’t do everything!

    So until we can get a more modern guitar player, we’re stuck where we are. Now some people really like where we are so about half the church sees no need to change or integrate. Hence my problem.

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  7. “Honestly the ministry is the blessing and bane of my existence at this moment. I love it and hate it. I work full time outside of the church to support my family and then try to pastor on top of that to sustain my church family.’

    My hat is off to you, and other pastors, who work hard to fulfill a call while working another job. I am a pastor in a 3/4 call – and I don’t have another job to boot. I appreciate the ‘blessing/bane’ feeling you have, and the honesty of your expression. That honesty with yourself, and God, will, I hope, go a long way to giving you strength to soldier on. Blessings on your ministry. I think your parishioners are lucky to have you as their pastor.

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  8. I am the Lead Pastor of a shrinking congregation in an average sized Canadian city. I startedd out as a Youth pastor in 1999 and become an Assistant Pastor in 2003 and became Lead Pastor of my church in 2010… and as I read the words “open forum” and “pastor” I asked myself do I really dare chime in on this? I peek in regularly, but online discussions and I never go well together so outside of chiming in on some of the Ramblings (God bless the Saturday Ramblings) I try to shut up.

    Okay I’m a day late so I’ll likely be missed anyway but whatever.

    Honestly the ministry is the blessing and bane of my existence at this moment. I love it and hate it. I work full time outside of the church to support my family and then try to pastor on top of that to sustain my church family. A large part of me is tired and burnt out and frustrated and angry and the list goes on and it’s not always pretty and as a Pastor I hate myself at times for having these feelings but here’s the kicker – I can’t quit… I AM a pastor. I have been called and gifted and made by God Almighty for the purpose of shepherding His people. I don’t get to walk away because it follows me… or better I exude pastoring.

    Oh wait this wasn’t supposed to be about me… The crises I see in North American Ministry today is the sidelining of a true relationship with God in favor of Social service, political manipulation, and “photo ops”. It was and is a common joke that the only thing ministry rarely gives you time to do is read the Word & pray. Note my choice of words – not study the Word, but read it and pray. I find it said that a relationship with God often takes a backseat to our relationships with other people and we’re just cool with it. A minister friend recently posted an article about reasons why pastor quit. As I read the 10 point list I noticed something: God and prayer played a secondary role to the people around a minister. In fact the most overt mention of God was for the pastor reading this to pray over the list before God have Him point out areas of weakness/struggle and then to take that list to your support network or friends to discuss it. God is not a real person in this article, He’s a source of info and provision, but not a person you talk to; & for many many ministers God has ceased being a real person in their ministry and has become an impersonal source of whatever is needed… and we wonder why people are pulling away and abandoning the Church? Because too many of us as pastors have already abandoned God privately and publicly but fail to recognize it.

    So what do I do? Eugene Petersen has been speaking strength and comfort to me lately (via his books – sadly I’ll likely never know the man) I submit my darker leanings to God’s care. I humble myself before Him and His people admitting that I need Him as much as they do. And I press on… I feel isolated from my fellow pastors and many believers – some people just want to be dazzled & entertained (and some pastors love being dazzling & entertaining) and not lead into brokenness by a man who is utterly broken and is daily finding God has new ways to break Him still…

    I don’t know I think I need an editor… anyway I’m posting this as is before I think myself into deleting my stream of consciousness writing here. Sorry to all who read this.

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  9. “but generally speaking, if you can modernize a hymn while keeping the original melody intact, you will get more than double the singing participation.”

    +1000000000000

    If you try and change up a old hymn too much neither the old nor the new will like it.

    Try introducing some modern hymns as part of your transition. “How deep the Father’s love for us” is a good one. Also “In Christ Alone”.

    “Amazing Grace / My Chains are gone” adds a nice refrain to Amazing Grace while keeping the original melody.

    Generally CCLI top 25 is a good list to not stray too far from if you are looking for good transition songs. It will put you 8-10 years behind the bleeding edge, but that is not necessarily a bad place to be.

    https://www.ccli.com/licenseholder/Top25Lists.aspx

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  10. Pastors may be the hands in the body of Christ. They lift the weak and weary. They hold the rod and the staff to protect and direct the flock. Thank you pastors for what you do.

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  11. I retired one year ago after 35 years as a pastor with no “disasters,” for lack of a better term. Within a week, I told my wife that I felt like that I had my soul back, and still do. I really try to encourage our pastors–for the first time after all those years, we are blessed to have found a church that we both really like and where we can worship and serve.

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  12. You are on the right track, one the the important ways we do it is to not distinguish between the different types, they are all called songs. At times I wanted to have all contemporary, but the mix has worked best, and is accepted by all generations.
    Keep working at getting a good balance, it is a difficult balancing act.

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  14. I hate to rub it in, but your “dream service” is my day job 😀 (only with Lutheran hymns instead of Methodist: much more minor key, more about Jesus than me).

    Many younger people do enjoy the newer music culture, and while there’s something to be said for entertainment preferences increasing the likelihood of visitor retention, let’s not confuse corporate expansion with faithful shepherding. I am extremely skeptical of generational stereotypes. It seems they only pay off for churches who prioritize numbers above all. I’ve known too many geezers who wanna rock out and too may kids who were sick of it.

    I got dem Mars Hill dudes all over my ipod, but the vast majority of their stuff is unusable, regardless of how good it sounds. Their melodies are not singable, and in almost no instances are they actual improvements on the original. 100+ years from now, we’ll still be singing the original melodies to the hymns they rock out, and their renditions will be forgotten in 25. Good for inspiration, but generally speaking, if you can modernize a hymn while keeping the original melody intact, you will get more than double the singing participation.

    My strategy is to make the multiple generations work together in the music production. I’ve had teams that had everything from a Jr. Higher to a gal in her lat 70’s on them, with a bit of everything in between. Those are the teams with the least infighting. (The team comprised of 85% boomers was the prima donna fest that drove me from my first church). I think it was Bob Kaufflin who said that every church has it’s musical “center,” and a wise leader keeps his feet planted there while gently pushing and challenging the boundaries in order to be more inclusive of a wider demographic.

    IMO, you are trying to bake the right cake. It is most certainly possible, as long as the church continues to see one another as players on the same team, and not competing factions. Christ centered uber ales!

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  15. I have several good friends who are pastors. We go back to high school days. While living in Wisconsin, I was visited by one of these friends. Toward the end of our visit he told me how much he appreciated the fact that when I introduced him, I introduced him as my friend Steve. No mention of his vocation. He told me this helped him feel almost normal.

    And this was introducing him to people in my church. 😉

    This same friend has told me more than once that it is no small calling to be a friend and ally of a pastor. It is no less of a vocation. He has encouraged me to fill this role and I have consciously done so in every church we have joined.

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  16. Interesting that the 60+ crowd still wants hymns. I’m almost a member of that bunch, but I’d rather hear a band. I was one of those Jesus Movement types who back in the day couldn’t understand why my guitar wasn’t welcome beside the piano. I’m glad things have changed, but it was done bit by bit. At my last church the music director broke the congregation in slowly, first with a guitar and bass, then added a very smooth and subtle drummer who had an amazing sensitivity to people with more traditional tastes. Within 8 years we had a choir with full blown orchestra with a detachable worship band doing just what you describe. And yes, the guitarist can play hymns. It just took time and patience to move people along. Don’t give up on that cake Pastor Brendan!

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  18. It’s a fact that younger people like the newer music culture…hey, at 33 I’m one of them! I’ve actually heard guest say, “we like your church but we REALLY don’t like the music”… guess the age demographic that came from. Even the younger members of the church (under 40) who like our church are putting pressure on board members to integrate more modern music. But this music is also a large factor in our over 60 growth demographic. Man they love ‘dem hymns and they left mega churches because of the music.

    Our music is heavily focused on late 19th century Methodist hymns (think Fanny Crosby and saloon piano music) with a touch of Gaithers. I find our better songs center on earlier music from Watts and Wesley. But the current style we play lights up the eyes of the +60 crowd while puts to sleep the -40 crowd. We have no problem keeping first time visitors that are +60 while -40 visitor only stay if they already have a strong connection with multiple church members.

    My dream service (which isn’t about me, I know) would be ancient liturgy with old hymns set to modern music style. Some of the hymns Mars Hill Music has been putting out has been really right up the alley I’d love to go. But really I want a service that could faithfully go from “Nothing But the Blood” to “God of Wonders” to the latest CCM stuff. I’d love two hymns, two “modern-esq” songs, and one legit new song. And I’d love them to sewn seamlessly. Songs the old people remember to pass on to the younger generation, along with new songs that speak to the young at heart.

    Yes, I want my cake and I want to eat it too!

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  19. It is a difficult area for pastors in regards to friendships. Even though I am now at a good church, full of loving and Godly people, that has not always been the case. I’m like someone who got in an accident turning left at a light, and now I don’t want to turn left anymore. Paranoid, gun-shy, wise as a serpent, call it what you will, but it’s there.

    Additioinally, I pastor a church that also got in a wreck turning left. I have been here a year and each of us is still waiting for the other shoe to drop. They are waiting for me to say that “Oh by the way I don’t really believe in heaven” or ‘lets rip out all the pews and hang a disco ball to be relevant”. And I’m waiting for them to show up in my office with a list of things to change about myself, or to get my first piece of hatemail, or any number of other things.

    Pastors carry baggage with them from their previous congregations. And congregations carry baggage with them from their previous pastors, although I think most would be hard pressed to admit it.

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  20. Julie, Thank you from all of us for your untiring work for Christ in the midst of a difficult situation. God has placed you there and He knows you are needed there. May you feel the love of those around you as you work for God’s Kingdom in your profession. Your list of what you did today is exactly what makes you effective at what you’re doing!

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  21. Amen, Miguel!!! Again, I reference the Episcopal music survey that is being presented this very week at General Convention that showed that the “young” crowd likes the traditional music. I don’t want to publish a link – because at this time, the results are only published in the giant 500 page blue book for the entire convention – but I’m hoping that after GC is over, they will publish some press releases about just the music survey.

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  22. That it explains why I’m on this blog so much. I’m one of the pianists for my church, too!

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  23. I love being a pastor. Of course, I’m just coming back from vacation, so check back next week.

    Seriously though, I serve a great congregation. We have our wrestling matches, and right now the use of patriotism in our services is a bit of a touchy subject as we try to move away from overt displays of civil religion in worship. Pray for us in this.

    Randy above mentioned loneliness as a big struggle for pastors. This is the biggest struggle for me. You know you’re in a strange vocation when you wonder whether or not it is appropriate for you to have friends. I recently joined a paddling club (canoes and kayaks). Nobody has asked what I do, they only care that I love canoes. I don’t plan on telling them either. I’ve had too many relationships change simply because people have really weird reactions when they find out I’m a pastor. I’m ok with just being one of the crowd.

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  24. I’ve often noticed that it is more liberal leaning people of a congregation that give encouragement to a pastor. They are less critical and seem more in tune with the real needs of others in the congregation. More conservative people can be more nitpicky, looking for holes in their favorite hobbyhorse theology or biblical interpretation, and will not be hesitant to let the pastor know about this.

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  26. I’ve just moved to a liberal-leaning church surrounded by conservatives with a bunker mentality. They’re afraid of orthodox theology because people tell them they’re not true Christians. They’re afraid of the Bible, because people who know it better use it as a weapon against them. Tragically, they’re afraid of Jesus, because they’ve been told that people who love Jesus wouldn’t care as much as they do about peace and justice. It’s a hard environment in which to make the Gospel clear. Pray that I would preach grace with boldness.

    —

    Regarding encouragement: today, I thanked yesterday’s substitute pianist and the person who delivered the children’s message, helped organize the next planting of the church’s food pantry garden, did backup work for our church camp, poked at a lecture series we’re starting, started next week’s bulletin, and provided interim leadership for our Christian Ed committee. Most of this work can be invisible to everyone except the secretary and a few committee chairs. The most encouraging thing that people in my congregation do (quite frequently, in fact; this is not a complaint) is take the time to notice what I’ve done. A short email from someone appreciating something that I thought no one noticed can carry me for days. It sounds simplistic, but if you want to encourage anyone, including your pastor, try being direct about it.

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  29. PK: that link was soooooo good; I’m sharing that bit of totally unvarnished truth with friends in the pastorate. Love the part about knowing your people.

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  30. Don’t buy into the lie that more recent music will attract younger people to your church and without it you will never see them!

    What kind of music do you have now, and what version of “blended” are you looking at?

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  31. It never ceases to amaze me how many music guys this blog attracts. Maybe it’s because the main writer is a music guy?

    Robert, I’m not sure what your traditional background is, but you may be encountering some Lutheran distinctives here. We would agree 100% that all vocations are a calling from God, and one does not have to be “clergy” for their work to be of spiritual worth and significance to the kingdom of God. re: Martin Luther and the shoemaker.

    This is the very basis on which Lutherans advocate this “separation of laity from the clergy.” We don’t separate them any different than you would separate a doctor from his patients, a mechanic from an automobile owner, or a musician from his audience. There is a distinction, and not everybody is called to do the work of the ministry. Being a pastor is a legitimate vocational calling, despite the fact that it’s spiritual dimension is uniquely important. They deserve the same level of vocational respect as any other calling, if not more.

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  32. Pray for my family who seem to be the only people around that don’t get to choose where they go to church. I also feel a music battle coming soon (yeah, we’re like 20years behind the curve on this), and I’d like to see a TRULY blended service. But that will take compromise, grace, and talent. I desperately wish to keep the inter-generational aspect of our church but the hard truth is while we’ve grown significantly over the last 2 years, our under 40 demographic hasn’t changed much (if anything it’s shrinking). I’d like to see our church continue to thrive 20 years from now but that’s going to take some retooling… but I’m not looking to run “the circus”.

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  34. “weak away”!
    I didn’t intend that, but, hey, if the shoe fits. . .
    “Blessed are the poor in Spirit. . . “

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  35. His preaching podcast is, imo, possibly the best on the internet, even though it doesn’t update consistently. And it’s only like 15 minutes long!

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  36. Not a pastor, but I am a longtime staff member (music), both paid and unpaid. So I qualifty, but only sort of.

    I believe that everyone is called (from the Latin voca, vocation, calling) by God to something, just not always the pastoral ministry. Whether we answer, now that’s another subject entirely.

    Also, I discern that Chaplain Mike is an advocate of the doctrine of the Nicolaitains, dividing the laity from the clergy (but full disclosure: Sometimes my discerner needs a new battery.)

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  37. One of the great difficulties of being a pastor is that pastors speaks a different language than the world around them. The grammar and vocabulary of the Christian faith are completely alien to the world around us. Words like “sin,” or “grace” or “salvation,” for example, figure prominently in pastors’ thoughts and sentences. Yet, the world around us has no idea at all of what we’re talking about. What makes it even more difficult, is that often the pastor’s congregation does not speak that language, or, at least, does not speak it very well.

    The other great difficulty is the loneliness of pastoral ministry. Often, I hope not always, pastors are taught or told not to “make friends” with the folks in their congregation. As a result, pastors are present in and to their congregations, but not fully “there.” Likewise, the pastor down the street is often seen more as a competitor and less as an ally, much less a friend. Pastors, when they get together, tend to talk about how well things are going in their congregations, even when things are not going well. As a result, there is often a lot of posing and posturing when ministers get together. Tragically, human reality gets lost amid that posing and posturing.

    Finally, ministers often don’t know when they need to call a time out. Since self-worth is too often based on accomplishment and activity, it’s imperative to be busy or at least look busy. As a result, quiet times with the Lord are undervalued, and we start acting like it is our breathless activity that makes the Kingdom come. At its worst, mania and hysteria starts talking the place of the quiet Holy Spirit. The result: Burn-out quickly follows. (I discovered this the hard way, may years ago.)

    If I may put in a plug for our ministry for pastors here in New Hampshire: My wife and I founded a small retreat center (“Forest Haven”) so that pastors might have a place of peace and quiet where they can get away for a few days or a week or two and get reacquainted with God. When I bottomed-out from burn-out in the mid-80’s, it was a weak away at a retreat center which the Lord used to heal me. Ever since then, I’ve striven to anchor my ministry life in silence, solitude and prayer. I haven’t always been successful in doing so, but this is a core value of my life, and which we are hoping to share with pastors here at Forest Haven.

    And now for an utterly shameless commercial: We don’t yet have a website, but we are on Facebook, at “Forest Haven Retreat–New Hampshire.”

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  38. Two stories on pastoral life:

    1 – a lady left our church publicly complaining about our lack of programs for children. A number of people were impacted by this and put pressure on us to “do something.” She phoned me a number of months later to admit the real reason for her departure was her addiction to drugs. She felt she needed to go back to her old church and pastor in another city to overcome this. Only my wife and I ever knew this.

    2 – the patriarch/builder/grandpa of our church was dying. A wise, godly, gracious man. You know the type. On the night before his death I was with him and his family in the hospital. The room was humid and tacky. As the family talked on the other side of the room, giving us a private moment, I placed my hand in his. He clutched it breathlessly in both hands. He said, “Your cold hands are so refreshing!” (I am famous for my cold hands). I leaned in close and told him I was so glad and privileged to be his last pastor. He said he was glad I was his last pastor. This meant a lot to me. Only my wife and I ever knew this.

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  40. As always, pray the Gospel message would be presented and clearly understood. There are so many things, not only in the world but also in the church, to distract all of us.

    The challenge is to be relevant without loosing sight of the goal. I can easily be distracted by the news (Obamacare, the Supreme Court, this election cycle, Gay Pride) and get lost in commentary. There are biblical principles for living in any particular culture, but Sunday morning must be more than a weekly Meet the Press or a digest of news and politics. We must open God’s Word and preach from it, not merely refer to it like using a dictionary or encyclopedia.

    In particular Mike (since you asked) pray for me and my family during a period of transition. After nine years in KY we have moved back to GA, and are not 100% sure what happens next. We need not only guidance and direction but the grace and humility to follow.

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  43. I want people to know that my life is really no different from theirs, except for a number of pressures and realities that they will never be able to identify with. I’m the same… but different.

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