Update: One of our commenters pointed us to a good article that I would commend to you this Independence Day. It’s by Brett McCracken, and is called “Place, Patriotism, and Sehnsucht”.
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Cue “Stars and Stripes Forever”.
After you light the grill and while you’re waiting for the coals to heat up, why not drop us a note here on Internet Monk in recognition of the United States of America’s 236th birthday?
You don’t have to be a U.S. citizen to participate today; we welcome comments about America from around the world, but our goal is to focus on this remarkable nation today.
Some hold a view known as “American exceptionalism” — a belief that Americans are a special people with a special destiny to lead the world toward liberty and democracy.
Some Christians root that destiny in God’s calling, seeing the U.S. as a Christian nation, raised up by divine Providence to be a “light to the nations.”
Others are far less sanguine about U.S. history: pointing out that, from the beginning, those who came to the New World took over (sometimes with horrific violence) a land already populated by others. They note that the record is stained with the blood of Native Americans, slaves, our fellow countrymen, and those with whom we’ve gone to war, that we have rarely lived up to the ideals our founding documents proclaim, and that we still have a long, long way to go.
Most of us probably take views that are somewhere in the middle.
At any rate, today is a day to reflect on the United States and what it means to us as U.S. citizens or as people looking on from other places around the world.
I am not going to say much more than that, because I want you, our readers, to have a few moments on this holiday for a truly open forum to share your thoughts, feelings, appreciations, criticisms, fears, and hopes for the good ol’ USA.
The Internet Monk Archives 
From Ted – “My greatest fear about the USA comes from my Christian friends and relatives” I share that sentiment… there’s a seemingly willful (is it ignorance or misunderstanding?) about history, church/state issues and NT teaching/example regarding those issues that almost chokes me up at times… There’s also a lot of misplaced allegiance bordering on idolatry…
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Kind of where I’m ending up as well… all the kingdoms of this world are deeply flawed and they all cause me to long for the kingdom of Jesus
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When someone writes an piece of writing he/she maintains the
plan of a user in his/her brain that how a user can be
aware of it. Therefore that’s why this post is great. Thanks!
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Tim, I’m thinking you meant 1787.
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TPD,
I don’t have a link to a “data source” for you. Even if I did, half of my statement is not “data”, per se. I’m contending based on my reading of history that desperate young males without options saw military service as a possible opportunity to get out of poverty, so they risked their lives for that chance. As a high school teacher, I see that same demographic walk over the recruiters’ tables in the commons every year. It would be pretty hard to argue that conscription wasn’t a major recruiting force during the revolution, the war of 1812 and WWI, since that was the legal method chosen by the colonies and later the US government for raising a fighting force during those conflicts.
As to the Canada thing, obviously there is no data source, it’s speculation. But I think it’s pretty reasonable speculation. Two nations live side-by-side, nearly identical demographics, both under British rule, one rebels against Britain and gains independence to become the US and the other doesn’t rebel and becomes Canada. It’s almost a controlled experiment. And how different is the US from Canada? My everyday life in Winnipeg or Minneapolis, Bismark or Regina, Vancouver or Seattle would be nearly indistinguishable, except for the French on the road signs.
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Yes, I agree that we need to thank God for the grace he has given us, but where we live is something that I don’t think God intervened in – otherwise, how can I reconcile all his faithful people who live in hell holes? I think we’ll agree to disagree. To me, thanking God in worship for being in America rather than someplace else sounds frighteningly similar to the pharisee who was in the temple praying “Thank God I am not like THAT man over there”.
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Our town outlawed them anyway at town meeting this year. But yesterday morning at 4:30 I heard bottle rockets going off next door. This is in the “if they want to stop me they’ll have to come and catch me” category. Or, to quote Charlton Heston, “they can take them out of my cold dead hands.”
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LA writes:
” but the true nature of our list of grievances with the king were laws like Obamacare. ”
*eyeroll*
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“most US soldiers throughout history were either conscripted or desperate”
I’d love to know what your data source is for that.
“without the Declaration of Independence, this country would have developed like Canada”
And that.
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And I’ll just end by saying that those presuppositions aren’t unexamined. We have been debating them in the US for as long as I can remember.
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I know I have a bad habit of “tweaking noses” when communicating on blogs and I don’t want to do that here. Even though they may not all make sense to me – given the lens through which I view the world and my understanding of Scripture – I appreciate the responses. I do, however, have a retort to this comment:
Why do you immediately jump to the idea of government intervention to fix everything?
Why do so many Americans immediately jump to the idea that government intervention is always a bad thing and to be resisted at all cost? I would argue it goes back to your Constitution, the pedestal on which it is placed, and unexamined presuppositions that many Americans hold. The notion can’t be defended based on the real-world experience of many democracies other than the US. I view the right to bear arms in the same light (oops, I’m starting to tweak noses, so I better stop). 😉
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That’s not what I was saying, LA. I was merely pointing out that the natural gifts we enjoy in our lives by God’s common grace are worthy of thanking him for in worship.
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Also, there is nothing “separating” church and state. It merely says that the state may not impose on anyone a state-sponsored religion. It does not say that you cannot vote based on your faith or that they must be completely separated. The whole “separation” concept comes from a letter written by Jefferson. The actual phrase in the constitution is: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”
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Ken, allow me to address that directly. Jesus tells me to live my life as his follower ALL THE TIME. Not just some of the time, not just when I’m in church, not just when I’m with friends at a church function. But all of the time. Period. No exceptions. I cannot in good conscience leave my religion outside the ballot box. My faith is with me inside the curtain of the ballot box because Jesus told me never to leave it behind. We are called to color every aspect of our lives with the gospel, not just the time we spend in church. Jews get this better, IMHO, than anyone. They wear special clothes, do special things, eat special foods because God calls them to be reminded in every moment of every day that he is there…that he must be present in their lives 100% of the time. Jesus calls us to no less service. Am I tolerant of other people’s faith? Absolutely!! I humbly believe that there are many rooms in God’s house. And each person must make private discernment of the path that is right for themselves.
However, that does not mean that I don’t vote my faith. God did not ask us to separate our “real” lives from our spiritual lives. He calls us to live every moment of every day as his children…called to faith in everything we do.
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So does that mean that God has not blessed the upright person who lives in a dictatorship or corrupt country? Does that mean that God has cursed that upright person? There are a lot of incredibly faithful Christians living in deplorable countries and conditions. By saying that God has blessed us to live in this free country, it must mean that he has not blessed the ones who don’t live here.
Having worked with many, many people in these deplorable conditions, I know that what you just said…that you feel “blessed” to be living here…makes them feel like dirt. That their faith is not worthy of living in better conditions. That they are “unblessed” because they live in horrific places.
Beware the message….God does not favor us by “allowing” us to live in one place vs. another. He blesses us with grace, our nationality is merely an accident of our birth.
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Warren, luckily, we have the freedom to remove our kids from those situations. And if you defend free speech you have to defend it all or none of it. Once people appoint themselves as censors, it is a very slippery slope. I’m sure that the some Soviets who advocated against any speech contrary to the state were well-intentioned and just wanted to protect their new government, but it was too easily twisted into something grotesque and oppressive. Who’s to judge “hate speech”? When you say “any reasonable person”, lawyers have been using that little loophole to convict and acquit hundreds of criminals. It’s unfortunate that not everyone is reasonable or likable, but we can see during the McCarthy hearings how one man’s “reasonable” is another man’s “unreasonable”. The people who blacklisted those Hollywood celebrities really thought they were being reasonable. Once you go down the path, it’s hard to pull back up and change course.
I would say that if anyone spoke to my kid like that, I’d pull him from the situation. We have a lot of options for our kids these days, and while not all are “easy”, they are all do-able in some fashion or another. Life is, unfortunately, not fair and I’d rather have a few mean coaches that I have to work to avoid than to have McCarthy hearings.
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“…using “hate speech” against children… Is that part of mom and apple pie?”
Refusing to make something illegal and condoning it are two different things. Why do you immediately jump to the idea of government intervention to fix everything? Organizations like schools, churches, clubs, and families can all stand against “hate speech” without having the government pass a law making it illegal. We lose our freedom by degrees when everything someone doesn’t like they jump up and say, “We need a law prohibiting that, and that, and that, and that…” Ever hear the term Nanny State? If you want your government to be everyone’s surrogate parent or Big Brother, that’s fine. But I would rather not have that here in the US.
I agree with you about post 9/11 laws though. I think the Patriot Act was a freedom killing disaster.
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LA, how about teachers, coaches, etc. (e.g., adults) using “hate speech” against children? Or maybe just against children who are visible minorities? Do you defend that as well? Is that part of mom and apple pie?
You’re right in your comment about understanding freedom. The older I get, and the longer I observe the US, the less I “get” the American concept of freedom (or at least the popular view thereof) – and the less I want to see it idolized in my country. I never felt like I had more freedom in the US than in Canada during my five years “south of the border”. And some of the laws enacted since 9/11 appear to be a mockery to the notion of freedom anyway.
Miguel, why drag jail into it? I though we were talking about going to the wall to defend a “right”. There are many sanctions that stop well short of jail.
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One of the great puzzles to me has always been Americans mixing religion and politics. On paper, and in law, there is a belief in the separation of church and state. I realize there is argument as to what that really means. In reality Americans mix religion and politics in a way that no other country in the Western world does. Compare it with Canada which has no laws of separation of church and state, but on the ground practices it in a way that would positively upset evangelical christian Americans.
However what I see in many people’s minds is that the two are actually the same. I have many friends who are enraged by what they see is the violation of America’s Christian past, and believe it is a Christian nation and so we need to muster the troops to fight the battle against the humanists, atheists, democrats, islamists and other undesirables. Its like the above named group have taken the place of the bad king of England and later the Communists.
I lived in the US for a few years and positively loved it. I never felt like America was Christian, but did feel like it is a country with a large number of Christians living there. I had an interesting dialog with a friend of mine in Kansas about that.
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Um, yeah. I wouldn’t send a kid to jail for being a jerk. He can have detention instead. It must not become a legal, government affair.
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Outside the US, when it comes to the speeches of Lincoln, we mostly only know about the Gettysburg. But this is some powerful and moving oratory. The man clearly had a gift. Methinks I should look up some others of Lincoln’s speeches.
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Warren, I would say that kids have the legal right to say whatever they like, but we as parents have a duty to correct, mold, and temper their words just like any other questionable behavior they engage in. And I say this as someone who spent my school life being shoved into lockers and teased mercilessly. I would defend to the death the RIGHT for those kids to do that, but with freedom comes RESPONSIBILTY and in the case of the kids, it is the parent’s responsibilty to teach their kids to behave properly.
I think that’s where non-Americans don’t “get” our brand of freedom. We are free to carry guns because with that freedom comes a responsibilty to handle them correctly. We do allow hate speech, but have a responsibilty to listen to others critically, not everyone succeeds in upholding their responsibilities, but anything gained through one’s own effort is always more valuable than anything merely given.
Obamacare is distasteful not because we don’t care about our fellow man. In countries with largely homogenous populations, your needs are all very similar and it is easy and obvious to come to a civil agreement about things. Here, we have a huge variance of needs, opinions, and realities that creating any law which smacks of “I know better than you do how to care for your family or yourself” elitism is not within our nature. If you were to read the Declaration of Independence and study history it is exactly these kinds of laws that our country resisted in the first place. Yes, the Stamp Act and others were retaliatory, but the true nature of our list of grievances with the king were laws like Obamacare. Laws that assume the ruling class have all the answers without giving us a voice, vote or say in the matter. If you were to look at how this law was shoved through in closed door sessions and against the expressed wishes of the people (if the numbers on the govt website showing numbers of people who contacted their congressmen to show disapproval are accurate) this is EXACTLY what the Decalaration accused the king of and we built a whole new nation because of it.
It’s not necessarily the intent of the law that people rail against but the fact that it was enacted against our expressed wishes and contains huge parts that are in direct violation of the very “freedom with responsibilty” part of our nature.
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Sorry to pop in late on this topic, but I had a busy 4th of July.
I grew up with “American Exceptionalism” preached heavily from our pulpits. We were God’s gift to the world and one was always left with the implication that we had earned that status. It is bad enough when someone calls themselves “good”, let alone “exceptional”! I agree with the Proverbs “Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; A stranger, and not your own lips.”
I have wrestled with all of the extremes of the Christian and his/her involvement with the State. Do we grab for political power as the Moral Majority did in my younger days, or do we pursue a non-involvement stance, as the Amish do? Do we pray for a return to state religions that the Catholic, Orhtodox, and Anglican communities have known in the past? God help me!
We have begun a study on the book of Daniel in our church. I have learned that Daniel, while putting his faith and identity in the Lord first, also remained loyal and faithful to Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon. He refused to “defile himself with the King’s meat”, thus maintaining faithfulness to God. He did not, however, refuse the Babylonian education and the opportunity to serve in the pagan King’s court. He was trained to be a “wise man”, a sort of counselor, and his advice on matters was found to be 10 times better than the advice of the other wise men.
When he interpreted Nebuchadnezzar’s dream about the statue, the great promise of the coming Kingdom of God (in the form of a stone cut without hands) completely replacing the kingdoms of men (symbolized by a statue made of differing metals) is revealed. Any believer of any branch of Christianity could and should long for the day when God’s Kingdom knows its full realization in this world. Nothing else could possibly satisfy one who possessed the Holy Spirit of God. Of all people, I am certain that Daniel understood this very well.
The same man returned to a long career of over 40 years serving pagan kings and governments. That means he worked with unbelievers, and perhaps a few believers, trying to solve the common problems that face mankind. He saw the Babylonian kingdom fall to the Persians, and as he served the Persians I am certain that he was under no delusions that their kingdom would last forever.
I have learned from Daniel to do the very best that I can in this world to be of service and help. I have learned that my great country will not last any more than the kingdoms that Daniel served. I have learned that it is necessary in this world to work with unbelievers to find solutions to common problems. I have learned most importantly that “It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings”. God has His own purposes in the men and governments to whom He grants power (I do not have to fear Obama or Bush).
I am thankful to serve God and man in the United States. I care for this country, because it is the country that God has placed me to live, and Americans are the people that I am called to love. I am under no delusion as to the outcome of the United States. Its greatness and power will be replaced one day. My ultimate hope will always be the realization of the fulness of God’s Kingdom when Jesus returns.
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But such a war would be nothing like the last one. Consider how much the US economy depends upon Asian nations, in areas such as manufacture and electronics, more than it did 70 years ago. And if anything, Australia depends upon them more. War in Asia would bring my country’s economy to a sudden, sickening halt, and we might not survive (or not in our current state) even if the US were to win. Australia’s (and consequently my) political allegiances are not in question, so don’t get me wrong, but geopolitics is not a simple science. Like chess, it requires thinking several moves ahead.
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nice analysis.
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I can’t believe that I’ve never read that before. Thank you so much for sharing. This is something I will return to on Memorial Day.
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Yes, you’re right. This is an important distinction.
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+1
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Glenn – Many of us United Statesians share your questioning of our own foreign policies concerning wars and arming of violent groups. We question but we don’t do much. I guess we don’t care enough about what goes on beyond our own borders and that is an indictment against us. Our leaders make decisions, we complain, but then we let them go ahead because they tell us it is for the good of the country.
Concerning your view of USA democracy; the confusion can be resolved by the fact that we don’t have a democracy. We have a republic that is mostly democratic. The distinction is important because the founders of the USA considered pure democracy to be the tyranny of the majority (the 51% rule over the 49%). The USA republic retains non-democratic safeguards, structures, and balances to make sure that the views of the 49% still retain representation in public affairs. Personal freedom is held in higher regard than democracy which is why you would probably spark protests if you tried to pass a law REQUIRING the citizenry of the USA to vote.
Don’t tell us we can’t vote, but don’t tell us we have to vote either. It is all wrapped up in the United Statesian attitude of “Don’t Tread On Me,” in other words don’t tell me what to do. We are a nation of rebels. In fact, that is what I question most about our country. What is this chip on our shoulder that causes us to be so independent, rebellious, and even violent?
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The next time an imperialist, Asian army is at the front door of Australia, who do you think will stand beside you? Finland? How’s that for historical foresight? Breathtaking.
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Spoken (or rather written) like a true Scandinavian. Best of luck to you.
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Lincoln’s second inaugural is perhaps the greatest speech ever written.
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Good point! I definitely feel blessed here in the States and I don’t take that for granted.
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A lot of this is perspective. As I’ve come to understand it, most US soldiers throughout history were either conscripted or desperate (WWII being a notable exception) and they spilled their blood to expand economic opportunity for the ruling elite. This goes all the way back to the revolutionary war, where a popular protest from those being forced into battle was “Tyranny is tyranny, let it come from where it wlll.”. Yes, black slavery was widespread during the colonial era, but the US was a huge and brutal player in that game and our government was a late and reluctant arrival to the abolitionist movement. As Warren has alluded to, without the Declaration of Independence, this country would have developed like Canada, which is practically the same as the US, but with a less bloody history.
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Depends what price you put on peace. The Romans had been in a republic that descended into multiple brutal and bloody civil wars. The question for them was, ‘Which is better: freedom leading to blood and strife or a dictatorship leading to peace and stability?’ To them, especially in retrospect, the answer seemed obvious. The US has had only one civil war so far and the most recent domestic strife was in 1968. Perhaps one should not blame them too much, never having been in the same position.
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I can appreciate what has been said about patriotism as love of and nostalgia for home. Indeed, I share that love. But, not being an American, it adheres to a different place and a different set of cultural foundations for me. Which puts me in the position of standing outside America, looking in, and perhaps of perceiving some things that loom too large in the American mind for many to notice. Maybe.
One of these is tunnel vision towards a fixed, specific goal and a breathtaking lack of historical foresight. Not necessarily of individuals but of the nation on a larger historical scale. Giving arms to the Russians during WW2, for example, without bothering to think what they might do with them after Germany’s capitulation. Giving arms to the Afghan ‘freedom fighters’ in the 1980s without bothering to think what they might do with them after the Russians were gone. Where other countries tend to be more practical and realpolitik-y, the US seems to have a bizarre proclivity for going from ‘You are our dearest friends!’ to ‘You are the enemies of all that is good!’ in rapid succession. So it looks from over here, anyway. What is it in the American character that causes that?
The other thing that seems obvious and utterly bizarre to an outsider (who am also a Westerner, I should note, and also from a democratic country) is the idolisation of democracy as a panacea for all the world’s ills. This seems bizarre on two counts: 1) America seems less democratic than my country (Australia). If I don’t vote in an election, even if I’m overseas when it happens, I get fined. Which is fair, because by not voting I’ve neglected my responsibilities as a citizen of a democracy. Yet I’ve heard remarkable statistics of the percentage of the population in the US who vote in any given election (it’s a very long way from 100%) and none of these people who refuse to vote receive any kind of punishment despite committing an offense which is in the same realm as (though several steps of gravity below) treason.
Fair enough then. Athens wasn’t completely democratic either, even though it pioneered the idea. If the US is happy with a mid-grade democracy, that’s ok. But then 2) America feels a moral impulse to export democracy to every country it reasonably can, either by cultural influence, diplomatic pressure or (ironically) war. This is puzzling in its own right. Why do Americans assume a political system which works tolerably well in their culture will work equally well in vastly different cultures? There’s plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise (connected question: why do Americans assume any movement to overthrow an established government is de facto to be preferred to that established government?). This becomes doubly puzzling when connected with 1). If America wants democracy throughout the world at all costs, why not enforce it at home?
These are some of the puzzlements that attend an honest onlooker.
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The Caesars believed that the Roman Peace was their gift to the world. But peace under a dictator is a far cry from freedom with God-given rights.
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I understand, Ted. Thanks for your comment and I hope you had a good Independence Day. (I don’t know that it was wise for the State to legalize sales/possession/use of fireworks. Hopefully the newness of being able to use them will wear off and hopefully people will mostly use them on this day and maybe New Year’s Eve. )
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The Caesars believed the same thing about themselves, but not many argue for “Roman Exceptionalism.”
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I will have the BBQ fired up for you and anyone else that shows up….
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Miguel, presumably you would not defend hate speech “at all costs” in an elementary school setting – especially if it was your child being subjected to vicious taunting. Would you endorse a legal age for hate speech, like drinking or voting?
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TPD, I can’t speak for the average Canadian (if such a thing exists), but my hunch is that you would be hard pressed to convince most of us that the world would be worse off had the revolutionary war never occurred (or had the British prevailed).
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I like to think of the Articles as our first prototype for government of, by and for the people. Notice, they kept the good parts and changed what was unworkable. It was our alpha model and now we’re on the beta model 200 and some years later.
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Thanks Tim. We’ll be over to your place on Sept. 17 for a cookout.
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Today is not the anniversary of the USA. The country was founded on the us constitution which was signed on september 17, 1797 with the ratification of the us constitution. That is 21 years and a failed government between he 2. And of course a war.
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True, but my point is that allegiance belongs only to Jesus and Him alone. We are defined by who we are in Christ, not by the country we live in. Yes, we are not persecuted here. To our flesh, this is a blessing. To the mission of the Gospel, it’s a curse because persecution is the lifeblood of the church, as it is in China now and church history. If I want America or any other country to succeed, I want it to succeed in line with the spread of the Gospel and the values of the Kingdom. Countries that succeed for any other reason – their own benefit – do so at the catalysts of greed and power.
I’m not trying to pop anyone’s balloon or be a devil’s advocate. I’m just sayin’.
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I have said similar things often, but I think there is a place for thanking God for common grace gifts such as one’s nationality and citizenship in a free and prosperous land.
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Chicago. We were multicultural before multiculturalism was discovered in the 1960s! And we missed out on (thankfully) the Americanization hysteria of the 1920s. Probably because there weren’t enough non-immigrants around to be afraid or offended.
Our temple offers Hebrew classes for people to take. I already knew it when I converted/reverted. Most of the folk I am friends with from temple do pretty well know it, but perhaps not enough to have a secular conversation in (words for computer & other technical jargon can get in the way).
There’s a town to the south of me where 95%+ of the citizens speak Spanish. In my opinion, that’s a point where the town’s council meetings, minutes and rules etc. all ought to be in that language. With of course, translation for those who don’t speak Spanish.
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Like the baseball player on the very old SNL show, “America has been very very good to me.” Both parents naturalized citizens. Raised 6 children , a PHD, a teacher, a plumber, a preacher, a nurse and a medical doctor. There are very few places that this is possible. I can worship God without worry, can express my opinions and even criticize the powers that be. Try that in cuba,china or a muslim country.So America is , “A genocidal,exslaver. warmonger ,Etc. etc.” I’ll take it over all the rest. Thank you.
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America’s birthday is October 12th, Martha! 🙂
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Hi, Joanie, happy 4th.
I’m using “greatest” in the sense of most powerful and influential, not necessarily goodness. But we do have potential there.
I love Canada too. And I’m really fond of Ecuador.
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I stopped praying “God bless America” some time back because if there ever was a nation God has blessed and blessed and blessed and blessed over and over again it is the United States.
Now I pray “God save America” because its underpinnings seem to be disintegrating and its moral sense has just about evaporated and its spiritual discernment seems almost non-existent at times.
It’s not that I’m ungrateful, it’s just that my focus has changed.
Reading Joel Rosenberg and Jonathan Cahn will do that to a person.
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Oh, don’t get me wrong: My children will learn to speak Japanese in addition to English. I’m not against other languages being spoken, that would be silly. I teach choir where we learn music in multiple languages. I’m just bothered when the mother tongue is treated as optional, as if somehow society at large is obligated to learn your language to help you fit in.
Do the worshipers at your temple all understand Hebrew? My Catholic friends all know enough Latin to follow a Latin mass, but some of my Jewish acquaintances have confessed they don’t understand a word of the Hebrew in their services.
And a multi-cultural neighborhood like yours makes me wonder: do you live in Southern California or New York?
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+1.
I worship God, not America. I was very happy this past Sunday when, in worship service, our new pastor said absolutely nothing about the 4th. No nationalistic flag-waving, no singing of “God Bless America,” nothing of the sort. Just a service focused on worship and praise of God, Jesus…and not an iota toward the USA.
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I agree with your two-party nation concern. The two parties have way too much power, and this is a system in need of a great re-vamp. I would love to see a third and fourth party enter into the picture in a strong way, parties that dwell in the middle ground that the Dems and Reps are unwilling to tread.
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I disagree. The only thing that characterizes an American is they were either born here or were naturalized. I hear other languages than English spoken all the time. In my temple, at least half the service is in Hebrew. In my neighborhood a lot of the folk speak Spanish, Arabic, Czech and Italian (these last 2 are the older crowd). A commute of 15 minutes will put me in neighborhoods where Lithuanian, Polish, and Mandarin are the prevailing languages. And as a pragmatic thing, folks usually learn enough language to get by and make sure their children learn it, but the neighborhood life, that’s all done in the mother tongue. And that’s the way it SHOULD be. Freedom of speech implies the right to speak it in whatever language you want.
A part of our history that is cringeworthy is the suppression of German print and speech that went on in the Great War period.
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America is a great nation in many ways, but not as great as many of its citizens think it is.
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When it comes to being proud of my two nationalities (one of which is United Statesian), all I can conjure up is a big fat “meh.” Growing up in two different nations — one first-world, one developing and very corrupt — has sullied my thoughts on things.
I’m grateful for the rights that I have as a United Statesian that I don’t get from my other citizenship, but at the same time, I get to see the underbelly. I would say more, but I’ll say this: Racism has not lessened; it has just evolved. And it’s even gotten worse since the elections in 08. I may not see a cross burning in my yard today, but best believe I have to fight to be seen as equal in the workplace (the field of science, no less). And I have to bump heads with different forms of ethnocentrism, and have to teach lectures at almost every lunch break that folks with my phenotype are not dumb (oh, thank you, Bell Curve!), are not “bred” for hard labor and so on (some coworkers have no filter).
“No sir, we’re not all fat.”
“My hair takes just as long to do as yours.”
“Um, yes, I do wash my hair.”
It’s tiring.
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Good article. I like these paragraphs:
“Patriotism is more existential than ideological, I think. It’s less about propagandistic justification for “exceptionalism-oriented” foreign policy (though it can be this) than it is a natural feeling of admiration and nostalgia for the place we call home.
“It’s the thankfulness we feel for the particular nuances of the world that reared us: the culture (in America: jazz, baseball, the national parks, pretty much everything Ken Burns has documented in his films), the history (1776, Abraham Lincoln, Buzz Aldrin and so on), the landscape (for me: the windswept prairies and thunderstorms of Middle America), and the people (our parents, our teachers, the kids we played with in the street).”
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I remember an essay somewhere about “Cultural Imperalism (TM)” that said “America has produced one truly dangerous Cultural Imperialist. His name was Thomas Jefferson. ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident…’.”
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I just read a good article by Brett McCracken on the “Mere Orthodoxy” blog about patriotism. In his article he states:
“Patriotism is a good thing. It’s the natural emotional connection we have with place. We’re wired to ache for this notion of ‘home.’ It’s what the Israelites longed for in the Sinai. It’s what the Hobbits longed for (the Shire) during their Middle Earth adventures. It’s what constitutes part of C.S. Lewis’s Sehnsucht: a nostalgic longing for the ‘Green Hills’ of his Belfast childhood…
And so this Independence Day, I’m not going to feel bad about my pride in America. I’m not going to shrink from patriotism, as if it’s anything other than a natural and good thing to feel. I will be careful not to confuse it with nationalism, however, and will not forget the fact that as Christians, ‘our first love must be the kingdom of God, over and above any love of country, no matter how pure and honorable that love might be.’ [quote from Lewis’ The Four Loves – I think]
Ultimately my fondness for ‘home’ and all of its nostalgic resonances…should point me heavenward, stirring my heart but not satisfying it, stoking the fires of Sehnsucht just as the Irish green hills did for Lewis.”
The whole article can be found here:
http://www.mereorthodoxy.com/place-patriotism-sehnsucht/
Happy July 4th!
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Matt – American Exceptionalism has nothing to do with racism and does not claim that WE as people are exceptional. That is a perversion of the idea. The idea (partially originated by the Frenchman Tocqueville) says that our ideology of a democratic republic based on God-given rights was exceptional and needed to spread throughout the world for the sake of the people of the world. It doesn’t mean that we are better or that we have a right to rule over anyone. Manifest Destiny is a separate issue.
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>It was a lofty and precarious goal to build a form of government upon ideals
And hopelessly doomed. A vision by some very educated and cultured gentleman that could never be articulated to the masses they hoped to govern to such a vision. And, of course, a vision they often failed to live to themselves as well.
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> I started to realize that the injustices in this world are too profound
> Now I just happen to be an American.
+1
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I’m a bit bothered by hearing the US called a “Nation of Immigrants.” It is not true. We are a nation of citizens. That would be former immigrants who adopt our national identity. My wife was a foreign exchange student. She now has her green card and is on her way to citizenship. Her personal pet peeve is foreigners who come here and refuse to learn english.
I’m not saying our immigration process is perfect, and some people just have the toughest (near impossible) time getting through it by the book. We could point out a ton of injustices or places where we have dragged our feet on granting asylum, etc… But there is more to being an American (ok, a United Statesian) than simply breathing the air between our boarders. And there’s something to be said for the fact that nations who hate us are full of people trying to get here.
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I’m afraid the “merchants of cool” do wield the most power these days, both in church and state.
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Wow. Profound.
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Perhaps a good label for what bugs you about Americans is “idealogical snobbery.” We think our way of doing things is the most enlightened, produces the best results, and is clearly the best way of structuring society that the entire world would clearly benefit from adopting. Am I right?
Well, it certainly doesn’t help our egos any that our ideas have spread like crazy around the world. They have been adopted by countless other countries with very successful results. Other ideologies, like communism, socialism, fascism, monarchism, etc… don’t seem to us to get the same results.
It probably stems from the narcissistic “pursuit of happiness” described above. Our ideas get us what we want, so we can’t understand why anybody else would not want that.
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+1. Hate speech must be allowed at all costs. As soon as the government appoints itself a censor, all freedom will soon disappear. Freedom of speech for Phelps accomplishes two things: 1. It puts their ideas out in the public square so they can be refuted and shown how ridiculous they are. Nobody with the slightest degree of social grace would ever identify with their cause. 2. It prevents hateful causes from being forced underground into secret sects. This way we know who they are. If their hate leads to crime, we know where to find them.
I would die defending Phelps right to speak is rotten mind, because it means I can too. Hurting someone’s feelings is NOT a crime, and it never should be. When it is, we become subject to the tyranny of the other guy’s emotions.
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I wish we could transport the Founding Fathers to OUR time so that they could re-imagine their creation with respect to our modern times. They were a product of THEIR times and their creation was a product of those times. Would they do the same thing if they lived now? Who really knows…but I think NOT!
I am brought to mind of that famous State flag that says “Don’t Tread On Me”. That sentiment is STILL appropriate for most Americans, that is, let us live our lives in peace without the corrosive and co-coercive hand of government directing our efforts. If we succeed on our own, or fail, it is by our OWN efforts and not another’s. Leave me alone to live my life!
From my personal experience living in various Latin American countries the USA is STILL the best place to live. “God Bless America” does NOT mean “God Damn the rest”, it means “May God Bless our country that it continue to serve the interests of its own people, while blessing those around the world who choose to live here as well”.
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“American exceptionalism” like Manifest Destiny is an ideology designed to justify genocide. Period. What kind of racists think one group of people is “exceptional” over another? God is no respecter of persons. Period.
Today’s playlist: “Monster” by Steppenwolf, “Fortunate Son,” by Creedence Clearwater Revival, and “Idiot Wind” by Bob Dylan. Happy Fourth…
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A nation is a corporate entity and without a soul. It can be neither good nor bad, moral or immoral. Those qualities are reserved for people who make their decisions for good or for evil, knowingly or unknowingly building or destroying. As a nation we can be efficient or inefficient, weak or strong, but not right or wrong. God uses nations, but holds us accountable as individuals.
While I am blessed to live in the USA, and speaking as something of a student of its history, I see as many black spots as white on our record. I give high marks in our founding …in particular that seminal phrase in our Declaration of Independence that proclaims our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to derive from God. Not from a king. Not from a coven of lawyers or a gaggle of politicians. From God. That notion revolutionized the world. We seem to have a majority of people (and leaders) today who disavow that and conduct themselves as if God were irrelevant. In the long run of history, we may yet prove to be a flash in the pan.
Pray that the USA, in some measure, remains a haven for God’s people, who give so much comfort and sustenance and wealth to those in desperate conditions all around the world. And pray that God yet has a reason to sustain us and use us. Then celebrate!
Happy 4th of July, y’all!
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I, for one, agree with those sentiments!
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The point is that those “different flags” would have been largely dictatorships and monarchies instead of the many democracies you see in the world today. I think you can make a very strong case that many people are better off because the US experiment worked and US soldiers spilled their blood on behalf of freedom.
Internally you can make a case for the Native Americans being better off, but not the African slaves. African slave trade wasn’t American, it was a world-wide industry and they would have still been sold into slavery.
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“The Republicans /Tea party wrongly believe in the wisdom of the individual to make the right choices; we Christians don’t, because we know just how sinful and selfish and foolish the individual is.”
Michael – Overall I agree with you but I do lean to the libertarian side on the US political debate since God put the tree in the garden deliberately giving Adam and Eve a choice and in the story of the Prodigal the Father honored the son’s choice to go off and do something wrong. Yes we frequently make wrong choices but somehow those choices are part of our path to understanding His love and grace and finding our way back to Him.
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Amen to that, and to Ted’s similar sentiments above.
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What would the world look like today if there had not been an America? About the same, overall, I think. Same basic human depravity causing the same basic injustices, just under different flags. Native Americans and Africans who came here on slave ships would have been far better off without our government’s activity, but otherwise, mostly about the same.
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Marko – You have spotlighted (from your perspective) much of what it means to be a United Stateian. Although I also see and dislike the arrogance, some of that is the genuine “American Exceptionalism” that CM mentioned. And there is something to it since the USA was the world’s first durable democratic republic (key word is “durable”). Maybe the rest of the world doesn’t think they need us to teach them that lesson anymore. Maybe some countries have actually surpassed us in that area. But as the trail blazers we just can’t get over talking about it.
And in our minds a big part of that freedom are the rights of jerks like Fred Phelps. To have a government that trusts its citizens enough to allow an idiot like Rev. Phelps to spew his bile is a point of pride for us. It demonstrates the extent of our freedom of speech. And the fact that 99% of us want to kick his dumb a$$ shows that we are able to handle that freedom. The same thing holds true for gun ownership. I’m a gun owner and we have a saying, “I carry a gun because a whole policeman would be too heavy.” To live in a country that allows me that right and trusts me enough to protect myself is a point of honor and demonstrates the extent of my freedom.
There are acknowledged dangers that come with our freedoms, and it will always be a balancing act between freedom and security. But I would rather have more freedom than security. In this whole health care debate, I’m one who can only afford health insurance for his kids while I go without. If I need care I go down to the local urgent care and pay out of pocket. If something cataclysmic should happen to me that I can’t afford to treat I am ready to die. Better that than have Obamacare rammed down my throat. I know a lot of people will disagree with my balance of freedom/security and in that regard I guess I am the quintessential SOB United Stateian.
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Amen!
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+1. Much agreement here.
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A country’s name is in itself a name only. As a Christian you identify yourself with God first and foremost your family second, your neighbour next, yourself next. anything else is secondary.
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+1
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Corny as it sounds, my hope and prayer is that more Americans can win their independence from the Big Media opinion factories. I see dark times ahead if we can’t find a way to think and discuss things more even-handedly.
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I’m thankful to be living in the very best Babylon the Great in the entire world! But it’s still Babylon… it’s still a power that can’t help being threatened by the power of Christ and therefore can’t help being opposed to his Kingdom. It’s still an idol that usurps our worship and an environment that warps and distorts our view of God. We’re still aliens sojourning in a foreign land even if that land has, in some ways, been a beacon of justice in the world (in addition to committing genocide and building its wealth through slavery and torturing its own citizens and so on.)
When I think about America, Lincoln’s second inaugural address still feels very applicable, although other injustices have taken the place of slavery since then:
‘Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. “Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.” If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said “the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.”
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation’s wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.’
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In 1776 a group of people started the greatest social experiment arguably since the Roman empire. The ongoing result can be summed up as ‘it was the best of times and the worst of times’.
On the one hand there is huge economic freedom, America figured out something Europe never did. Allow a middle class to emerge and you will create more wealth than imaginable. On the other hand, millions are very poor and lack needs like healthcare. America has the science and know how to explore space, build a space station and the most advanced technology, yet lags behind other nations in scores in standardized testing for grade school.
America has created a culture and entertainment colossus that influences the world,although many could not locate major countries on a map.
In government there is a brilliant set of checks and balances, yet at times it can yield gridlock and paralysis.
America really is a mass of contradictions. Yet because of that experiment despotism has been curbed in the free world, especially Europe which has become democratic, and royalty has become a figurehead.
It may be said that America is really the best of the worst.
Happy Birthday!
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Tony C messed with a lot of our heads back then, didn’t he? (Looking for the smiley emoticon…)
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Well sure, we have issues… but we did inspire May Day which is quite a party day now I hear. Chicago’s Haymarket “riot” and the overbearing legal response to it resulted in May Day being the international labor day.
The guns thing is just the way we are. I live in a big city where people shoot each other all the time, so I am somewhat ambivalent about guns, but on the other hand, many of the gun owners I know (and I have roots in a rural area so I know a number) are a peaceable lot that don’t get their guns out over disagreements.
The overt, crude religion in politics thing is probably going to go away in the future. The youth today are dropping out of religion and the ones that stay with it tend to be less confrontational on the matter. This is also a matter of region. People from the south and rural areas tend to be more outspoken in their religious views and more grieved by the loss of Christian privilege than people from urban areas or the northeast.
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I have been blessed with the opportunity to live in both Denmark and China for short periods, and visit several other countries (Germany, Canada, Spain, Nethlerands, Costa Rica, etc). I can say without a doubt that I am a big fan of the freedoms we have here and the access to religious liberty on a scale that, so far, I have not seen elsewhere.
That said, my biggest concern for our future is the two-party system. Rather like Treebeard (http://rebootchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/07/treebeard-approach-to-politics.html), I say that I am not on anyone’s side because no one is on our side: that is, the side of the Christians. The liberals have some Biblical principles in them, as do the conservatives, but both are also filled with the basic fallen depravity of mankind. The Republicans /Tea party wrongly believe in the wisdom of the individual to make the right choices; we Christians don’t, because we know just how sinful and selfish and foolish the individual is. Meanwhile the Democrats believe in the wisdom of the government to make the right choices; we Christians don’t, because we know the government is just a big collection of those sinful, selfish, and foolish people.
We American Christians have to always be careful, I think, to avoid being “American” before we are Christians, and tying ourselves up too firmly to one party or the other. None of them are on our side, so we shouldn’t be altogether on one of their sides, either.
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My second comment ever, just a day after the first one… you said, “we welcome comments about America from around the world…”
I’ve had some discussion about this issue with Americans online before. It’s so easy to generalize, and no matter how tolerant you try to be, it’s hard to avoid antipathies – they don’t usually follow reason.
It’s impossible to deny the fact that America is great – in terms of size, population, power, importance etc. – country and nation. However, sometimes American attitude seems to be “we are the top of the world, never mind the rest of the world, unless they submit to our authority; American way is the only way.” That’s what the rest of the world can’t stand.
Acting as a world police is very questionable, as the truth is, America has first financially supported and assisted dictatorships they are then overruling once they become too stubborn and hard to handle, and a main motive behind the scenes is always their own benefit – mostly oil.
Acting as a world wide advocator of democracy and freedom also seems a litlle peculiar; As I have discussed with my friends, we don’t get it – because from Scandinavian perspective, American type of democracy just doesn’t seem so democratic at all.
And freedom? Freedom to carry a gun and shoot your neighbor’s brains off – that’s a little exaggerated, but a kind of impression you may get. Fact that people like Fred Phelps can act as they do, is something I would draw a line on. We have laws against that kind of hateful behaviour.
Recent example of “American Weirdness” has been this debate on health care reform. Accusations of socialism etc. Again, in Scandinavia it’s self-evident that no one in need of medical treatment is left without. I’m happy to pay taxes for that and many more social benefits we have. Heck, Jesus was a socialist!
Another thing is your “religious right”. In Finland, Church and state are not completely separated, and yes, you may hear religious voices in political field too, but it is not such a frightening – yes, indeed: frightening – force, as it seems to be in America. Politics and religion just don’t go well together. And they shouldn’t.
Every year in time of American Thanksgiving I post on Facebook something about Native Americans. I have many American FB friends, good friends. I guess I am a little mean.
Finally, I have to admit I am really prejudiced. It is strange to say that America and Russia are on the same line to me: Neither of them would be my first choise for travel destination. Differences are big, but in overall attitude there is something quite similar; Russia is reseeking its greatness as the world power and being defiant.
I’m sorry if I offended anyone…
This is about prejudices and generalizations concerning America, more than anything else.
Not every American is personally responsible of decisions and actions of their government, nor should be blamed for unfortunate history of Native Americans, etc.
There are plenty of good people. Nothing’s black and white in the world anyway. I suppose it’s just completely different cultural mentality that separates us in many matters.
You have all the right to celebrate your independance, so happy 4th of July!
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I like the USA. I don’t think she’s perfect, I don’t think any nation made up of imperfect people can be. I think she’s made some mistakes, some of them quite dreadful. But it is a nation I see being made better over time, too. For instance, there have been reparations paid to some Native Americans, and where it has been determined that treaties did not actually exist when a clearance was made, land has been returned or other arrangements worked out. Is it enough? I don’t know. We’ve stopped sterilizing the mentally ill and “unfit”. Racism isn’t nearly as bad as it was in my youth, especially among the younger crowd. Christianity is no longer casually forced on those who don’t believe it, at least not as much as prior to the 60s. Gay people are not discriminated against nearly as much as they were back in the Stonewall days. In my state, any couple not otherwise ineligible is allowed to from a legal union, gay or straight. The ADA has made it so that folks in wheelchairs and blind and deaf folks can more easily get out of their homes and into society. There’s still, at least in my area, a high unemployment level for the handicapped, so there is still work to be done, but it’s better than it was.
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The USA is always a weird place to try to compare to other countries, because there is so much variety between the states. I do enjoy the ability to move to a state who’s laws work for you and still have basic federal protections.
The thing I most enjoy about the USA is that it has the best countrywide disability accessibility laws in the world. Different states have different levels of enforcement, but I can travel fairly widely and expect to find at least one up to date place I use the bathroom in any mid sized town or larger.
The thing I struggle most with about the USA is that our people seem to have no mind for beyond our borders whatsoever. When they do talk about other nations, it is always in relation to us – is this nation stealing our jobs or not, etc. Talk about whether we’re taking anything away from that other nation is rarely taken seriously. We write our expectations on other nations and think that everyone must do things the way we do them.
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Happy birthday, America!
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One does not have to be “defined” by the nation one lives in to be thankful for God’s common grace in allowing one to live in that nation, and to be thoughtful about one’s national and cultural setting.
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I love my country…its people, its land. I am not always satisfied with the government as it is and think that there is much room for improvement. I don’t know if we are the “greatest” country. I think Canada is wonderful. I bet lots of people love France and its great land and history. Switzerland could be in the running for a great country. How about New Zealand? Some of the South American countries may be wonderful places to live. And I could go on and on, but I have not lived in any of these countries so I don’t know what it is really like to be a citizen there.
That said, Happy Birthday, USA!
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This could be said “Blessed to be a Blessing” If we work to help others, we will find our purpose again.
I don’t think making “cookie cutter” copies of ourselves is the way. We were founded in diversity and that blend made us strong. “God bless America”
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I’ll agree with others above that the United States is the greatest country, but great is not always good.
My greatest fear about the USA comes from my Christian friends and relatives. My prayer is that one day they may step back, turn Christian Radio off, turn Fox News off, and realize that extreme patriotism is just another form of idolatry.
And through this, may God truly bless America.
We need to apply 2Chronicles 7:14 to ourselves, not to the secularists and liberals.
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True, “the pursuit of happiness” is due for an update, a rewrite perhaps. Seen in light of ‘me, me, me’ and ‘if it feels good, do it,’ that pursuit is the truest assurance of isolation and sadness. Jesus has the ironclad formula for making, and keeping, a country great and the closest assurance of happiness that we will find in this life: Love your neighbor as yourself. Works every time. I hope that that love is practiced abundantly because that is the only hope that He will “…stand beside her, and guide her, through the night with the light from above…God bless America, my home sweet home.”
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I think the United States is an enduring monument to the greatness and folly modernism. As we move further into the post-modern age, the foundations of the nation become more foreign. As an example, Jefferson’s phrase, “pursuit of happiness”, was not intended to justify our current narcissistic society; rather, it is better translated in the modernistic vernacular, “summa bonum” – the greater good. A nation cannot persist if its members are all focused upon themselves, which leads to both welfare fraud and Wall Street high-risk greed. This was meant to be a nation which fosters aspiration, rather than greed. It was a lofty and precarious goal to build a form of government upon ideals, assuming that those ideals would endure through each passing generation.
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I grew up in a fundamentalist sect, the Plymouth Bretheren, that firmly believed “this world is not our home . . .etc.”. My parents did not vote and we did not participate in anything political at all. As I went off to college, met some other Christians and read me some Francis Schaeffer, I began to realize that there were other approaches to “the systems of man” than the one I had been taught. Like many sincere young believers in the late 70s/early 80s, I adopted the abortion issue as the one political issue I should care about and became a raving conservative “patriot.”. As I got older, I learned that the history I had learned in school hadn’t told the whole story and, with the help of Tony Campolo and others, plus a lot of unsatisfying answers to tough questions asked of my conservative friends, I shifted over the course of a few years to being a raving social justice “liberal”. Eventually I got to the point that I started to realize that the injustices in this world are too profound for any political system to fix, let alone any political party, and I have now almost come full circle to my childhood. I still vote and I can occasionally be found at a protest march somewhere, but I’m not expecting much from America. I certainly don’t think America is a “Christian nation”. I certainly do think our economic system has fueled a hopelessly unjust distribution of wealth. But I also think that America is about as good as one can expect from a human governmental system. I was once proud to be an American. Now I just happen to be an American.
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I’m reminded of two things at this moment:
1. Abraham a being a nomad, undefined by whatever nation he was living in, choosing to be defined instead by the faith he had in God and his promises.
2. Shane Claiborne’s masterpiece “Jesus For President”
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Way to go, Steve!
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No country in the history of the world is perfect, and mistakes have been made. And just about every people in every country, came from someplace else, way back.
That said, this is and has been the greatest country in the history of the world. we have done more good for people and kept more people in the worls safe from tyranny, than any other.
What would the world look like today if there had not been an America?
Why do so many risk life and limb to get in here…from all corners of the world?
God bless America.
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USA! USA! USA!
There. I said it.
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