One of my favorite weekends of the year: Leaf-Peepers Paradise. The second weekend in October is typically near or at peak time for fall foliage in many of the places where I’ve lived. Tomorrow we will feature some spectacular pix by one of our faithful iMonks, and your chaplain himself is hoping to spend some time over the weekend rambling around the woods looking for good photo opportunities.
But for now, let’s ramble together through some of the more interesting sights around the web this week.
Sigh. I guess we should start with . . .
Something about some guy who resigned as pastor from his church in Seattle . . .
Something about how some guy who resigned as pastor from his church in Seattle took the corporate way out, not the Christian way . . .
Something about a few lessons we can learn from some guy who resigned as pastor from his church in Seattle . . .
Something about what some guy who resigned as pastor from his church in Seattle teaches us about being a pastor in the digital age . . .
Something about church properties now for sale in the wake of some guy who resigned as pastor from his church in Seattle . . .
Something about questions that are being raised about church governance in the light of some guy who resigned as pastor from his church in Seattle . . .
Adding ammunition to your Chaplain’s theory about how the triune force of Technology/Affluence/Freedom leads to secularization, Adam Graber suggests that cars created the megachurch.
Among the changing church practices related to this change in transit is affinity, a fancy word for common interests we share. It’s a “likemindedness.” These shared interests might be sports or music or art, or they might be doctrines, morals, and lifestyles.
The interplay of cars and affinity isn’t simple. To flesh it out a bit, take a non-religious example: choosing a restaurant for dinner. Now, most drivers don’t think in miles but in minutes. In 20 minutes, you can drive exponentially farther than you can walk. And this freedom gives you a lot more options.
With so many options, we’re forced to ask ourselves “What do I want?” and go from there.
So how do you decide where to eat? It’s a classic first-world problem: “What am I hungry for?” Chinese? Tex-Mex? Burgers? Pasta? Gluten-free? Deep-fried? While much of the world struggles with scarcity, in the United States, narrowing your options is the first-world problem of abundance. With so many options, we’re forced to ask ourselves “What do I want?” and go from there. We can’t not ask it.
Life with cars almost requires it.
Speaking of technology, this week may have witnessed the crack in the dam that will ultimately lead to a flood of changes in the world of television. Both HBO and CBS announced that they will start stand-alone Internet streaming services in the United States. These services will not require a subscription to a traditional television service, but viewers will choose them in the same way they choose Netflix or Hulu now. A new age of à la carte television has now reached the toddler stage, is starting to walk, and will only continue to grow. As Emily Steel of the NY Times says:
The moves signal a watershed moment for web-delivered television, where viewers have more options to pay only for the networks or programs they want to watch — and to decide how, when and where to watch them. Rapidly fading are the days in which people pay an average of $90 a month for a bundle of networks from a traditional provider.
Personal note: Gail and I discontinued our satellite TV service at the end of 2013 and have watched little but streaming TV and movies since. We also have a digital antenna on one set to pick up local channels. The only service live TV offers that keeps this trend from going hog-wild is live sports. But the Times article mentioned that CBS is having talks with the NFL about this very subject. If sports can find a way to make the megabucks they are making now by streaming instead of relying on cable or satellite, we will have truly entered a new era.
A lot of U.S. Christians were outraged this week when the city of Houston subpoenaed sermons of pastors who oppose a local equal rights ordinance. Scott R. Murray’s strong words at the Washington Post are representative of the way many view what has happened:
In the bare-knuckled realm of American politics, the mayor and City Council are not really interested in reading a bunch of Christian sermons to find out what they say. They are attempting to stop Christian pastors from commenting on moral issues that are important to politicians. They are using the coercive power of the city’s legal department and turning it on the speech of the church. Not only is this an effort to shame the pastors for their principled stand on sexual mores, but it is a naked attempt to silence them.
On the other hand, our friend Pastor William Cwirla pointed us to another, less reactionary point of view from another Christian commentator, Dr. Joel McDurmon:, who says, “Is Houston demanding oversight of pastors’ sermons? No.”
I write this only to calm some of the unnecessary alarm, and to introduce some reason and understanding into the mix. The headlines read as if the city has made some move to start monitoring all pastors’ sermons, and this simply is not the case. It also gives the impression that this is some out-of-the-blue, general attack tactic by the activists upon the pulpit. It is not. It is not out-of-the-blue, it is not broad and general as far as the implicated pastors goes, and it should not be a surprise at all.
The City is not making a move to monitor sermons. The city is merely responding to a lawsuit against it and using standard powers of discovery in regard to a handful of pastors who are implicated as relevant to the lawsuit. The issue is here: once you file a lawsuit, you open up yourself and potentially your friends and acquaintances to discovery. This is the aspect that has not been reported, but it is an important part of the context.
This is basic court procedure. But the headlines make it sound like a surprise attack by leftists advancing their agenda on unsuspecting Christians.
If you want to see what autumn looks like in various places around the U.S., well, that’s exactly why God created web cams. At this time of year, a number of them help folks chronicle the fall foliage. Here are a few examples for you to enjoy as we trace the progress of fall.
- Brown County, Indiana.
- The Bitterroot Valley, including time lapse video.
- The Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
- Mt. Washington, NH.
Finally, we can’t talk about October without celebrating the World Series.
Congratulations to the Kansas City Royals and the San Francisco Giants for reaching the Fall Classic. The games have almost all been nail-biters, with the vast majority coming down to one pitch or one last at-bat.
At the risk of ruining Matt B. Redmond’s weekend, here’s how the Giants won their series. The call is by the peerless Jon Miller. [note: starts with commercial]
And what a great story the Kansas City Royals are, returning to the World Series after 29 years on the outside:
The Internet Monk Archives 
Is it up and running yet? I might stop by to check it out on my next OC trip if it is.
LikeLike
Had a colleague get run out of a congregation for discovering and speaking out on the fact that members of the church were, more or less, using (or trying to use) donations to certain subterranean church investment accounts to dodge taxes. Things got real interesting really quickly when he brought this up at a finance council meeting.
LikeLike
It still doesn’t follow. Racism takes different forms in different locales. Pointing out one way it manifests itself in one area doesn’t imply anything about other areas.
LikeLike
I was responding to your implied subtext, not to what you “actually wrote” (reading between the lines of “(dare you say “whiter”?)”….
LikeLike
I never encountered such in England, Germany or Switzerland, though they might well exist. If it’s a single stall, with a door that locks, no problem, but if more than 1-2 stalls, I think it can be problematic.
otoh, I *loved* the way the stall walls in some countries went all the way down to the floor – more privacy, and slightly more space, than in the US equivalents. And much, much cleaner!
LikeLike
>In Detroit it was due to black riots.
Which did not materialize out of the ether.
LikeLike
“I wonder what all these millennials who are not driving do to get back and forth from work, shopping, etc.?”
This is discussed in the PIRG report.
> Do they all live along routes well serviced by mass transit?
More so than other demographics. Many generation make a deliberate choice to live in such places. Where people live is a choice, especially for the young.
> Do they depend on getting rides from others who do have cars?
Car services are common.
> Do they have cars, but use them as little as possible?
Many, yes. Or cars are shared.
> This I would guess: They are not moving back into urban centers well-serviced
> by mass transit in record numbers.
No need to guess, that is in the reports. I do not know what “record numbers” is, but they choose those areas in greater percentages than other generations. An even small difference in preference expressed over the course of a few decades adds up to a lot of change.
My point was just that there is yet another trend-line that seems to be running against the Evangelical Mega-Church. Even while the one in my area expands, yet again. I generally do not believe in “collapse”, real-world things tend not to collapse but fade-and-crumble. However the mega-church seems imperiled on so many sides it is hard not to believe the financial viability of these institutions is not fragile. But they appear to be locked onto a single course of action and single market demographic.
LikeLike
” You can certainly live without a car but it does require a change in concept of how and where you spend your time.”
Exactly. And business, and other organizations – like churches – that ignore this are excluding a section of potential ‘customers’, which was my point. A growing demographic of customers which in many ways seem like ideal customers.
LikeLike
Beat me to posting that STELLAR article.
LikeLike
Oh for crying out loud FOR it’s like that for everybody. If you don’t like giving your money away pay taxes on it. Spend it on yourself. Which by the way purchases something that is taxed and employs somebody that is taxed. Which all are based on land that are taxed which are ship by something that is taxed which is fueled by something that is taxed. In all you say that it is people getting away with something but the government is dipping into everything. A friend of mine said as we stood outside this magnificent stone church how horrible it was that they spent all that money when it could have done so much elsewhere. He fails to realize everyone that benefited from it in the way of all the jobs it produced to build it and maintain it which by the way were taxed. It contributed more to society then the government could ever do with all its paper pushing. I think you have it backwards.
LikeLike
On quite important thing to note: the pastors subpenaed were not party to the lawsuit.
LikeLike
“The future of media consumption is no longer subscription. It is a la carte”
It seems more like a la carte subscription. You have a subscription to Amazon Prime, Pandora, XM, ….
I am not much of a media consumer [the only media subscription I have is TiVo]. But in a recent conversation among friends several people have nearly a dozen subscriptions, not including their ISP and/or mobile plan.
This is actually more expensive, but in smaller units, so people don’t think about it as one cost. And by their own valuation they may feel they are getting more, so perhaps they are happy with that.
One friend has well over $200 a month in media service related expenses with several not that far behind.
LikeLike
That’s probably true, but it was handled in such a way as to make a point. Unless we are dealing with dumb lawyers (always a possibility) they could have easily gotten that info without a subpoena. Subpoenas aren’t issued willy-nilly in a high-profile case like this. A lot of time and thought went into this. The Houston city attorney was trying to make a point and intimidate the churches–maybe they succeeded, maybe not. Like I said, I once issued a subpoena in a case solely for the public relations value (and it sort-of worked, though not like I intended.) This may be a giant charade–the Mayor gets to say to her supporters, hey, I tried to get those dirty Christians, and the Christians can talk about being persecuted. Everyone’s happy! But the situation is certainly not as simple as you suggest.
LikeLike
Thanks, Christiane. I actually do appreciate hearing different viewpoints and perspectives. I’m part of a science group which is a mix of atheists, agnostics, evolutionists, etc. But differing viewpoints and perspectives need to come with respect. Whether or not FOR is the same person as a previous iMonk poster named Wexel, I don’t know, but they are very similar in that a lot of their posts seem to be lobbed in as grenades and intentionally provocative. (FOR does seem to be a bit different in that Wexel’s posts felt to me to be 99% grenades, while FOR does periodically drop in thoughtful insights.)
LikeLike
I think there was more to it but racism was big in Detroit in the 50s and 60s. (I had relatives there.)
A LOT of this came about in cities that boomed just after WWII. A huge amount of new housing was built. But it was 1200sf to 1500sf. And many times on 1/8 acre lots. And once people got more money and wanted a better house the only place to build them in the cities that boom like this was “way out”. So they did.
My father built houses as a second job and most of them (including ours) were built further out int he “burbs” for just this reason.
LikeLike
I wonder what all these millennials who are not driving do to get back and forth from work, shopping, etc.? Do they all live along routes well serviced by mass transit?
More and more they are option to live in apartments/condos near mass transit stations. And shopping areas are building up around these areas. But it is still a small segment of housing in the US. Growing but small. And it tends to limit you to single stores for many things such as groceries and in somewhat of a casual relationship leads to higher prices which leads to this only working for white collar jobs.
Now not owning a car does put a huge chunk of change back in the bank account to allow you to deal with higher other costs. And renting you car needs is a big things with these folks. Uber, Zip Car, and regular car rental agencies allow people to get around when walking or mass transit doesn’t cut it. Standard taxis are falling out of favor with these folks for all the reasons written about elsewhere.
I have/do spent a lot of time in the DC and Dallas metro areas plus live in Raleigh. And have looked at these issues in Pittsburgh and other cities. You can certainly live without a car but it does require a change in concept of how and where you spend your time.
LikeLike
A big example of the decline is that into the 70s schools would allow classes to have the world series on radio during classes. Lesson plans were designed to accommodate the games.
Then the games moved to nights. And many times last to midnight or later.
Kids just can’t pay attention.
LikeLike
“Soccer”
My DAUGHTER is big on baseball. When softball became the choice for the girls she wanted to stay with the hardball so we did. She played rec league up through the summer before her senior year in high school. Was pretty good for someone who wasn’t committed to practicing. Knew how to run the bases and position herself in the field for defense.
But she also took up soccer her sophomore year in high school and played goalie. Pretty decently.
You CAN be in to both. 🙂
LikeLike
thank you to Rick and Robert for your responses . . . I carefully read them and understand both of your points of view ( I hope )
I stand by my comment with the thought that there is room enough on imonk for many perspectives, and likely we will all encounter some we disagree with . . . but what makes this blog ‘different’ is that IF someone’s perspective isn’t my cup of tea, I can try to be a big girl and say ‘that’s okay’, they have a right to make their point
. . . so, after reflection, a form of ‘tolerant’ benign non-reaction, if not classical Christian ‘patience’ certainly seems to me to be the more productive response . . . it helps keep the conversational flow going IF I have a point to make to the person whose perspective is NOT my cup-a-tea, to make it concerning the topic under discussion, and not take a jab at them personally instead. Being human, we’ve all done that kind of thing, but here at imonk, most of the commentators seem more irenic in their responses to one another, and there seem to be far fewer ‘personal jabs’ than on other blogs that discuss religious diversity . . . and yes, in a way, it’s much MORE difficult to respond to a point made in a discussion than to negatively get personal with the one who made that point.
I’m surely guilty of being immature and thoughtless, but I admire the ones here who have set the bar high enough so that discussions CAN take place among folks from diverse backgrounds . . . and I want that quality for myself when I grow up. 🙂 Thanks again, for responding.
LikeLike
Even you must surely recognize that not everyone agrees that being tax-exempt constitutes “sucking on the public teat.” As to what truly constitutes the public good, that’s something to be worked out in the public square by people who may not agree with each other, including religious people.
LikeLike
@ Christiane –I believe I was being charitable by letting FOR know that I thought his/her comment was tiresome. When I agree with him/her, I let him/her know that, too. I don’t want FOR to stop posting comments; some are quite amusing, and he/she obviously is intelligent and perceptive. Neither do I think of myself as advanced enough in Christian sanctity to example to him/her how rich I am in the attributes like patience and holy listening. As far as I know, FOR is a far more righteous guy/gal than I’ve ever been, or may hope to be in this life. I don’t think of myself as spiritually superior to him/her because I believe in Jesus Christ and he/she doesn’t (I’m actually not really sure that he/she doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ). He/she seems to like liberal Quakers, perhaps he/she is a liberal Quaker, and I have a pretty high opinion of liberal Quakers; heck, one day I may leave the pew of my mainline church to go sit with the Quakers on a weekly basis instead. But I think that some of his comments add up to tiresome, including the one I responded to, so I said so.
LikeLike
Good point regarding “not all evangelical people or all truly conservative people…” Many are not like the way i characterized the general group.
LikeLike
Well, that just goes to show how much I know… told ya!
D.
LikeLike
I was in France, Germany, Italy, Vienna, Belgrade, Romania,Budapest. Most restrooms were segregated, but there were plenty that were not. Very rarely were there lines; there were usually enough stalls.
HUG, in France we got used to watching where we stepped, and it wasn’t always because of dogs… I don’t know what’s actually inside a pissoir, but they are for men, and they are tall cylinders of lattice-like metal with a swing-out door, just big enough to turn around in. They’re usually located under a tree, and they are for privacy only; if there is plumbing, I never heard it, but only saw a little river running from underneath the p. across the sidewalk… Sorry if that’s TMI – maybe after 35 years it’s better in Paris now…
D.
LikeLike
Love it!
LikeLike
France?
I remember hearing a lot of remarks about French public pissoirs, and how this was just the opposite of the way it’s done here in the States.
LikeLike
This is very true. I don’t know how many times I’ve remembered (late) that the Seattle Sounders were playing, only to flick on the TV and find out the game had ended 30 minutes ago.
LikeLike
In Detroit it was due to black riots.
LikeLike
In Detroit, it was black riots that drove the whites out.
LikeLike
He’s right.
LikeLike
Less tax for you means more tax for me, if you use the same public services.
What about Scientology? What about the World Church of the Creator (a white supremacist group)? From my perspective, hate speech against gays is just as bad, and cannot be compensated for by other types of charity.
LikeLike
Even you must surely recognize that not every church or religion does such things. Also, there is no universal agreement as to what constitutes a public good. Anti-gay churches probably think they are doing a public service by offering counseling.
LikeLike
that was awesome.
LikeLike
This is merely an indirect example of the zero-sum game fallacy. The observation that more people name the NFL as their favorite does not imply that interest in MLB is falling. Suppose your college roommate earned $30,000 in his first job, while you earned $20,000. Some years later you reconnect and compare jobs. Now you are earning $80,000, while your old roommate is only making $60,000. Would you say from this that his earnings have fallen? Of course not. If the two of you are competing over who makes more, then yes: he is falling behind. But that is a different, and pettier, discussion.
LikeLike
The World Series has always been in October. If you don’t believe me, go to http://www.baseball-reference.com and follow the post-season link. You can get a box score, including date played, for every post-season game played from 1903 up to this week. The difference is that the series used to be in early October. Now, with the various rounds of playoffs leading up to the WS, it ends up at the end of the month.
Spring Training in pretty much its modern form goes back to the 1880s. It is hardly new, and serves a genuine purpose. Watch a guy who was injured and sat out Spring Training, and it takes him about a month to get up to speed.
The first half of the 20th century the season was 154 games, with the season starting in mid-April. Then they expanded it to 162 games in 1961/1962 (AL and NL respectively), starting it at the beginning of April. This can occasionally result in playing in a snow storm, but it actually works better than you might think, in large part because a modern professional baseball park has really serious thought put into drainage.
In any case, a team that gets to the WS has three months off before Spring Training. A team that doesn’t make the post-season has four. This is not much different from a hundred years ago.
LikeLike
I’m not saying he/she should go away, I’m just saying his/her contempt is growing tiring. If I was part of a online community of baseball fans and someone kept posting comments about how awful baseball was, I’d feel the same way. If you don’t like baseball, don’t come to the site continually demeaning and showing your contempt for baseball. If you don’t like Jesus, don’t come to the site and continually demean those that like Jesus and enough of your contempt for all things Christian. Yawn.
LikeLike
I’m not under the impression (based on my own travels) that it’s universal by any means. Am interested in finding out what countries Dana visited where this was, in fact, the case.
LikeLike
Dana, what countries do you have in mind? My own experience is not this, but very much separate restrooms for men and women.
LikeLike
HUG, there are times that your comments cross the line. Imo, this is one of them.
LikeLike
Baseball is specializing. Its TV ratings for big games are declining, yes, but attendance is at an all time high, and increasing every year. So are souvenir sales, etc. There used to be one game on per week – the Game of the Week. Now, all 162 games are on cable for all 30 teams. There’s a saturation going on.
Also, it used to be that people who did not follow baseball at all watched the World Series because that was part of the culture. So, overall, there are more extreme fans than ever, but fewer fans overall.
Other sports are successful on TV because you can dumb them down to what’s easiest to show in TV, like the quarterback and the football. Baseball isn’t such a sport. Either way, Go Giants.
LikeLike
“I watch a lot of baseball on the radio.” Gerald Ford
LikeLike
the humility of many Christians of old likely prevented them from being offended by the rejection and criticism of others
. . . this ‘new’ form of conservative-right wing ‘christianity’ gets highly affronted by any sort of disagreement with their wishes and policies , , , reason? . . . they are POLITICAL as a group and rely on the ‘support’ of a constituency to advance their various agendas, among which economic interests are as important as ‘social’ doctrines . . .
my own thinking is that not all evangelical people or all truly conservative people show this kind of pride, but there have been mice in that cookie jar for a while now, and the political-Church brotherhood of minds has injured the Christian ethos in that potent mix of judgmental, angry and political power-seeking energy.
LikeLike
+ “Block busting”
+ FHA loan rules
= disaster
LikeLike
^Yes.
LikeLike
On satellite television: We we be opting out next summer. It is a huge waste of money for us. We subscribe to Netflix streaming for movies, plus get a couple of dvd’s from them each month. This is all the entertainment we need. And we get excellent local television channel reception since the advent of digital. So– goodbye to Fox & CNN. I’ve already quit watching them unless there is some huge news event. Won’t watch Fox even then! And Wolf Blitzer can ramble on and on without me.
LikeLike
Hi Rick,
He is a part of the community on this blog, and has a voice to be heard . . . if nothing more, he can experience how ‘Christians’ of various persuasions respond to his voice, and that direct interaction can help him better (perhaps) frame his ‘opinion’ of Christian folk in all of their variety and unity, discord and concord. I wouldn’t get ‘impatient’ with him, or he won’t know that ‘patience’ is a part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit in a Christian soul. I wouldn’t close the door to listening to his voice, or he won’t know that Christians are to be a ‘listening’ people who are open to others’ needs to be heard.
My point is that I don’t know and am not responsible for what he brought here as an opinion, as he owns his own opinion,
but I will accept my share of the responsibility as one member of this blog community to help him form a more enlightened picture of the faith of some Christian people from his interaction with us once he IS here.
This blog is special that way.
I think it was a part of Michael Spencer’s vision that people could come here from all persuasions and be heard. That is my own opinion, of course, because that is what my experience here has shown me.
LikeLike
Jesus said, “I am the truth.” Truth, in his mind, was embodied. I believe the same is true for the Church. We can say we have the truth, but until it is embodied, it is nothing.
LikeLike
Yep, that’s more accurate.
LikeLike
They are. They are a choke team. Kershaw is the best pitcher in baseball. But a choker in the playoffs last 2 years. Of course, to the Cardinals! Help me Obi wan Lasorda! You’re my only hope!
LikeLike
I wonder if shorter seasons might create a sense of more urgency, thus more attention, thus better TV ratings resulting in higher TV rights packages for the sports.
Your gluttony comment is interesting and should be considered as well.
LikeLike
But after the coverage of TGC et al over at Wartburg Watch and Spiritual Sounding Board, there’s no way you can trust any spokeshole coming out of that nest of control freaks.
LikeLike
And his First Megachurch didn’t even outlive him. Once he retired (not even dead), it was Game of Thrones with his heirs and the whole thing melted down. At least my diocese got the Cathedral they needed out of the bankruptcy/fire sale.
LikeLike
Because black churches can play the Race Card, including bringing in REVEREND Jesse Jackson with his $3000 suits and rent-a-riot.
LikeLike
Just that due to historical reasons (slavery and Jim Crow), blacks tended to be poorer than whites, so more of those who could afford to get away from the bad parts were white. Which combined with actual residual racism to skew the figures.
LikeLike
Sounds like, uh, the Dodgers might be the problem.
LikeLike
Radio broadcaster for the San Francisco Giants. Formerly of the Boston Red Sox and Baltimore Orioles. You can hear his voice on the first baseball video below.
LikeLike
I loath the Cardinals! They always beat my Dodgers! I also loath the Giants! Because they also always beat the Dodgers!
LikeLike
Men and women using the same stalls in the same room?!?! I dunno about this. It’s such a Euro thing I guess
LikeLike
+100
LikeLike
“But my observations from the comments over at CT indicate that no one cares: I learned something from him, so who cares whom he hurt?”
That is disheartening, and not surprising. I can recall having that attitude in the past.
The thought is: What matters is teaching, whether or not someone inspired me or put the right information in my head, because “truth”=gospel. People, service, community, and anything else is a distant second. What does community matter, if the teaching is wrong?
This is what folly looks like.
LikeLike
I appreciate that you took the time to clarify, Oscar.
LikeLike
So in Europe men and women have to wait in line an equally long amount of time to use the public rest room facilities?
I’m against the idea. Categorically against it.
LikeLike
“Jon Miller is a national treasure.”
Who is Jon Miller?
LikeLike
I should clarify that my prayer is also that it mutates into something less fatal EVEN IF it’s contained within the African continent. My concern isn’t just for the rest of the world, but for the people in Africa, too.
LikeLike
LOL.
LikeLike
Good prayer. I marvel at those willingly in the midst caring for the sick and trying to stop the spread. I’d add that since it seems unlikely Ebola will be contained within the African continent, that it also mutates into something less fatal as it spreads.
LikeLike
I live in Seattle and that’s NOT the reason they were ushered out to Ok City. I guarantee if the current Ok City product were here in Seattle, they’d be drawing fans. The reason they were ushered out of Seattle was because the ownership at the time wasn’t able to hold the team hostage in the building of a new arena, and that (jerk) Stern played hard-ball with the city, and the city didn’t budge. So they let an owner buy the team who would move the team to a city who’d be friendly to the NBA and its commissioner.
Otherwise, I agree with you. NBA is just an ugly individual sport wrapped inside a “team” cover. I find it intensely boring. Sadly, I see the NBA’s “individual uber alles” trend trickling down to college levels.
I’m predicting the collapse of football within the next 20 years. I don’t see how it survives the upcoming lawsuits of players over concussion issues.
LikeLike
Give me credit for keeping a straight face while typing that. I am slightly hopefully optimistic that things may change. But my observations from the comments over at CT indicate that no one cares: I learned something from him, so who cares whom he hurt? Peitism with attitude.
LikeLike
I often wonder, however, about churches’ reliability on the tax exemption and its zealous covetousness in protecting it. Are we members SO stingy with our dollars that we only would drop them in the offering plate because of the ability to deduct them from our taxes? I know there are other exemptions like the property tax exemption and the social security and housing allowance dodge but is that the prime reason? I feel the same way about the tea party claiming the delays approving their exempt status restricted its free speech. It might limit fund raising, but not their speech. people, including congregants, are free to donate their non-tax exempt dollars to whomever they wish.
LikeLike
One of the things I like about most mainstream denominations is that there are prescribed ways to handle finances, and basically the books are opened to almost any member. Financial controls are in place, budgets are presented, the pastor’s salary is not a secret, and auditors check things out.
There are exceptions and some churches are innovative in finding ways to hide money from pastors. I accidently found out one of the small town churches where I was pastor (in a parish of two churches) had huge investments stuck in semi-secret accounts. I opened my mail one day, and found a statement showing the accounts, interest accrued, and all the rest. It was from money that had been willed to the church from many years before I arrived. The excuse for keeping it out of the books was a paranoia that the denomination would take the money if the church should eventually close. So all it was doing was: nothing except earning more money.
LikeLike
That WAS to an impressive degree unrelated to what Richard actually wrote!
LikeLike
Sorry- should read “….as summarized by ESPN:”
LikeLike
“Baseball isn’t in a slide. It is a popular media meme (and has been since the 1860s) but this doesn’t make it true. Professional baseball by any sensible measure is doing better than ever.”
Not really. The most recent Harris Poll results on the topic, as summarized by ES: “In 1985, the first year the poll was taken, the NFL bested MLB by just one percentage point (24 to 23 percent), but since then interest in baseball has fallen while the NFL has experienced a huge rise in popularity. Nine percent fewer fans call baseball their favorite sport over the 30-year span, the biggest drop of any sport. The polling numbers suggest that the sport hasn’t been able to recover from a popularity standpoint from 1994…”
I don’t think baseball will die, but looking at the demographics of those who like it, the TV ratings, poll #’s, trends and interests of younger generations, the growth of other sports, etc… do not point to a stop in the slide anytime soon. So what can baseball do?
LikeLike
I certainly was not saying that it was dead, or even dying. However, it is declining.
LikeLike
Here is my legal strategy:
(But seriously, I am not a lawyer. I am a paralegal, and am fluent in lawyer. I have even trained myself, at great personal cost, to mispronounce Latin and Norman French terms to talk more like a lawyer.)
LikeLike
That is to an impressive degree unrelated to what I actually wrote.
LikeLike
I wouldn’t mind my child using a mixed bathroom, as long as it was one at a time in the bathroom.
But here in America, as far back as I can remember, it has been the custom to keep the sexes in separate bathroom facilities if there are more than one person in tyne bathroom at a time.
I think leaving a tip for those bathrooms that have an attendant is a nice idea.
LikeLike
I don’t generally know (or particularly care) which teams are in the lead, in any sport. I like to be informed about playoffs etc.simply so I can make conversation with friends who are so interested, and older daughter is huge Giants fan.
I remember when the World Series teams were known as “the boys of September” – not October. The players go to winter training in AZ or wherever long before the season starts. Why not end in September, and give them a couple of months off? Because of a month’s more more television revenues – I know. Same thing for football and basketball; playoffs and post-season games go later and later. There are no more seasons in professional sports anymore.
It’s like making the whole month of December “Christmas” or keeping your Christmas tree up all year long. (I know people who don’t take their Christmas tree down until March.) No anticipation, no transition – it’s another kind of gluttony.
Dana
LikeLike
A related advantage of soccer is that you know how long the game is going to last, and that is not terribly long,
LikeLike
Americans are so very fastidious. In Europe, the vast majority of public restrooms are “mixed-use,” with stalls for privacy. No one cares about the plumbing of the people in the stalls, only that the plumbing of the fixtures functions properly. The cleaner facilities have attendants, who can be of either sex – and you ALWAYS leave a tip in appreciation. (Then there are the pissoirs in France… a whole other thing entirely.)
Dana
LikeLike
Perhaps this is the wake-up call which will drive self-criticism and accountability when it counts.
Ha ha ha ha ha! HA HA HA!!! HAHAHAHA.
dumb ox made a funny!
LikeLike
Moses visited the mount. Peter, James, and John visited the mount. Baseball coaches visit the mound.
LikeLike
We did not buy cars for our kids; their HS graduation present was their own computer. We told them if they wanted a car, they would have to earn the money, and we would match $1000. Our 2 oldest went away to school and used public transportation and got rides with friends. Older daughter earned the money and bought her car. Youngest stayed nearby, earned the money and bought her car, and after finishing JC has used it to commute to the local 4-year, 70 miles away, for the past 2 1/2 years. Son worked, but never earned enough to be able to pay for insurance & upkeep after his monthly living expenses; he did not get a car until he married a girl with one…
Dana
LikeLike
P.S. – Atlanta is home to some of the wealthiest black people in America.
LikeLike
What you are saying then is that the South is completely racist and the wonderful North (does the term “rust belt” ring a bell?) has all the answers.
I think not.
LikeLike
I see two errors floating around that seem to be especially relevant in the neo-cal movement. The first as you mentioned is this odd “sliver bullet” fallacy that if we just got the “right” rules in place, the church would be healthy. Plurality of elders, expositional preaching, blah blah; however, it just doesn’t work that way. The second is that results for the tribe matter more than character and virtue. From the SGM debacle to Keller admitting that Driscoll’s problems were obvious “from the beginning”, it is the old sad story of placing business results ahead of being righteous. Some good lessons, but we never seem to learn them.
LikeLike
Don’t get me started on the NBA. I don’t think anyone who watched basketball in the 80s can ever be satisfied with the unskilled, selfish play that passes off as basketball these days. I only watch college hoops now.
LikeLike
Slow clap for your last paragraph.
LikeLike
The future of media consumption is no longer subscription. It is a la carte (I have beating this drum for five years now). People want to watch what they want, when they want, on the device they want. Apple proved early and often that the a la carte pricing model is lucrative. For media producers it is a matter of getting all the other involved parties on board.
LikeLike
Well it was in the past. Post SCOTUS ruling on Hobby Lobby I’m not sure.
LikeLike
Amen. FOR’s contempt for all things Christian is growing very tiring.
LikeLike
My sister once had a friend who touted that he didn’t have a car (“look at me! aren’t I a good earth-lover”), but who would inconvenience all his friends by asking AKA NEEDING to bum rides to get places.
LikeLike
Thanks Richard! That was informative.
LikeLike
Ha! I did miss in the comment thread Mike on yesterday’s post.
LikeLike
or the uglier more honest term: “Racism”
No. This has been a fairly popular social phenomenon for graduate study, and the conclusion is essentially unanimous – “White flight” was socio-economic, and included all races who wanted to live in safer, wealthier areas. Race does not appear to have been a significant factor.
LikeLike
This is time of year in Southern California when gang members and taggers switch from their greens and blues…to their yellow and red and brown spray paints.
It’s quite beautiful, actually.
LikeLike
Since when should free speech depend on if we are paying taxes…or not?
Governments ought never be allowed to screen sermons of pastors in order to use what they say against them.
BIG, LEFTIST government in action. Vicious gay proponents in action.
Why?
Because the good people in Houston do not want people of either sex using whatever bathrooms they want to use.
LikeLike
Richard, if I ever get charged with a crime, I want you to be my lawyer.
LikeLike
If churches have to give up their tax exemption, so be it. But I’m not sure how the government could fairly do so without taking away the tax exemptions of all other sorts of organizations that speak out on moral and political issues as well, like the AARP, NRA, political parties themselves, the ACLU, etc., etc. etc. Of course governments don’t always act fairly but the Constitution does require at least procedural fairness and protects the rights of Christians and others to hold the government to account when it does not at least maintain procedural fairness.
LikeLike
Atlanta’s crappy public transit system is rather notoriously the result of intentional policy decisions favoring the car-owning (i.e. wealthier) (dare I say “whiter”?) segment of the population. If there is no public transit to your neighborhood, only people with cars will be able to get there. Many consider this a positive. The point of the mantra of “Cars bad, Mass transit good” is not that everyone should abandon their cars regardless of whether there is adequate mass transit in their region. Rather, the point is that there should be adequate mass transit everywhere it is plausible: certainly in every major urban center.
LikeLike
Frankly the government will never allow churches to give up the exemption. Why should it? The exemption gets more charity out of churches than ending it would provide, and the exemption gives the liberals a really, really self-righteous stick to beat us with at the same time. It’s a freaking liberal paradise.
LikeLike
I was not aware that a person or a group had to be part of an organized religious organization to legitimately claim the right to freedoms of speech and religion.
LikeLike
I haven’t seen even a balanced news report which excuses the mayor’s actions. The difference is that with very few exceptions, conservatives portayed the mayor as sending out the P.C. police to censor churches and punish those who don’t support her agenda, with no mention of the lawsuit issued by her opponents.
I sue or subpoena you = religious freedom.
You sue or subpoena me = religious persecution.
LikeLike
I resist the notion that a tax exemption is the same as a tax subsidy. Eliminate the churches — or take their tax exemption — and taxes go up, not down. The churches are a net contributor by virtue of a) the charity they freely offer communities and b) the kids in the band or out or up in the youth room who’d otherwise be stealing your car and selling your daughter crack. Another example of “context denial.”
LikeLike
OK, now you’ve gone and done it. I’m going to give you The Lecture. I don’t have much time right now, so you’ll get the abbreviated version. You are welcome.
Baseball isn’t in a slide. It is a popular media meme (and has been since the 1860s) but this doesn’t make it true. Professional baseball by any sensible measure is doing better than ever. Since this is a business we are talking about, at the top of the lest of these measures are attendance and revenue. Both are going gangbusters. Don’t believe me? Look up the attendance numbers for whatever you consider to be baseball’s Golden Age. This is one place you can find them: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/baseball_attendance.shtml. You will discover that the attendance numbers in this Golden Age were pathetic, by modern standards. Historical revenues are tougher to look up, as these are kept closer to the vest, but there are various proxies, such as player salaries or team sale prices. These are consistently higher today.
One reason people think that baseball is in decline is because they compare it with football. This is an inherently flawed metric, as it is based on the false premise that this is a zero sum game. The rise of football does not imply the decline of baseball. Even apart from that, people often cherry pick what data to look at, to arrive at the desired conclusion. Consider attendance. The NFL tends to get between two and three times the number of people into the stadium than does MLB: A win for the NFL, right? But MLB plays ten times as many games as does the NFL, so if you look at total season attendance, MLB completely blows the NFL out of the water.
Then there is television. This is the big one. Football is the perfect game for television. Indeed, football on TV is far better than watching it live. You go to the stadium for atmosphere. But even while there, if you want to see what happened on the field you watch the jumbotron. It is no coincidence that the rise of football and the rise of television occurred in tandem. Baseball is much better in person than live: hence the ability of a team to get people into the ballpark 81 times in one season. For that matter, I much more often listen to the game on the radio than watch it on TV, even when I don’t have to wrestle my kids for the TV. Notice how when comparing audience sizes no one mentions radio? Football simply doesn’t work on the radio. No one chooses it over TV. It is the resort we fall back on if we have to be driving during the game. So yes, football far dominates baseball on television. So what?
That being said, the NFL is far better than MLB at marketing. There is an old saying that the proof of what a great game is baseball is that it has survived despite the best efforts of the owners to kill it off. A recent example is the rise of fantasy sports. The NFL embraced it as a way to bring in fans, and to keep them engaged even when their local team is not involved. MLB tried to restrict fantasy leagues, seeing them as a potential new direct revenue stream and completely failing to understand the fair greater indirect benefits. So yes, MLB would benefit from better marketing and smarter ownership. But MLB isn’t in decline because of this.
As for the NBA: seriously? The Supersonics were run out of Seattle, openly admitting that they switched to Oklahoma City because they couldn’t compete against the Seahawks and the Mariners. NBA attendance is in decline the past two seasons. I wouldn’t read too much into this, but the fact stands that they aren’t rising. The NBA is, from a marketing perspective, a peculiar hybrid. While it is a team sport, individual stars matter more than in football or baseball. The entire league is marketed much like an individual sport. The thing is, this means that everyone is tying themselves to a few stars. When Tiger stops winning, the entire golf world goes into a panic. In basketball, everyone loved Michael, so when Michael retired the NBA as whole felt the pain. Now they have LeBron: Yipee for them. But he isn’t getting younger.
And yes, this was the short version…
LikeLike
Of course cars created the megachurch — more specifically, congregations and pastors tired of inner-city types wandering in and offending with their unkempt looks, drunkenness, and leers. You can’t keep the best people (biggest donors) when they’re constantly being offended. I don’t think this is rocket science.
As for Houston, they’ve got a problem. Discovery (the legal process, not the spaceship) does not authorize the government to bully people who practice what used to be called Christianity (before Jesus became the personification of Cultural Marxism). Only liberals can authorize our government to do that.
LikeLike
Baseball is best on the radio, not TV. As John Ames said in Gilead,
My experience with the millennials my kids have run with has been they bum rides. However, a niece with no license in a more urban area simply used the bus. Picked her job based on ease of getting to and from home and work via mass transit. Good choice. But she usually relied on rides from friends and mom for social or shopping trips.
LikeLike
Trevin Wax has always been more sane and grounded than many at TGC.
LikeLike
I disagree, Kevin. What they were looking for was not the moral content of the sermons, it had to do with the fact that those particular pastors had led petition drives and had their congregations participate in other specific political actions regarding the ordinance. They were looking to see if they had crossed any lines or broken any rules with regard to political action as encouraged by the pastors.
LikeLike
Matt, as I’ve told you before, if I weren’t a dyed in the wool Cubs fan, I would root for the Cardinals, who consistently have one of the best organizations in baseball in a city where baseball is king (a rarity these days). The Giants are my second favorite team, another great organization. Only thing I’m sad about is not seeing Tim Lincecum pitching at the top of his game. Madison Baumgartner is remarkable, though.
LikeLike
Now TGC offers prophetic insite into the matter of the resigned pastor? Where was this critique of one of its own five years ago? I don’t want to be too harsh, because the insight provided in TGC article is good. Perhaps this is the wake-up call which will drive self-criticism and accountability when it counts. Will they now pro-actively direct that same prophetic insight toward Douglas Wilson? Piper?
The conclusion I draw from the comments section on a Christianity Today article is that the pastor in question is a saintly martyr who did no wrong apart from a few minor foibles, and anyone criticizing him is the true bully. This is far from over. The “pastor” in question may be an even larger influence on American Evangelicalism as a free agent.
LikeLike
That sounds like a Charismatic gift Cm
LikeLike
RDavid,
these thoughts have been around since 1868.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-dead-ball-century-mlb-baseball-playoffs-john-thorn-mlb-historian-baseball-decline-articles/
LikeLike
It’s local for us but it’s gotten swept under the news rug for coverage of our local Ebola scare. A summary: The elders/deacons went to court to get him off the checking account, get the keys back after he changed the locks, and get the church-owned Mercedes back from him. The local bank simply sent a check to the court, closing the account, asking the judge to give it to who should have it. It did get ugly. Local members say it started off with his confession from the pulpit that he had AIDS and needed time off for health. The deacon board wanted to help, give him time to get treatment, and restore him eventually. then subsequent Sunday sermons got more confessional, and people got up in arms. He admitted to financial misconduct, keeping travel expenses for trips he never made. And multiple adulterous liaisons with female members, some in the church building, even after he knew of his HIV diagnosis. I’m sure there’s more to the story than the local media is reporting, but this is symptomatic of the strong pastor form of governance that the other ramblings mentioned about some Seattle pastor. Please don’t mistake that I am comparing the two pastor’s actions. Just that there should be more oversight and accountability built into any church governance. Dig around on the Montgomery advertiser or WSFA website and you’ll get a feel that there was little or no oversight possible due to the governance structure.
LikeLike
FOR, this is tiresome. Churches put far more back into society than they take out of it from the “public teat.” If all those religiously affiliated hospitals and charitable organization were to disappear, along with their volunteers, it would cost a tremendous amount of money and resources to replace them, if they ever in fact were replaced.
LikeLike
I think it’s true that existing laws prohibiting politicking in tax-exempt churches have rarely been enforced against African-American churches, and that, however the laws might change in the future, that will continue to be true.
LikeLike
I would happily use mass transit, if that were possible, to get to work and many other places; unfortunately, it’s not, and I can’t afford to just pull up stakes and move into the city, though I would like to do that, too. And my wife and I both have jobs located in suburban areas not well-serviced by mass transit. So, we’re stuck with the need for cars, much as I abhor them.
I wonder what all these millennials who are not driving do to get back and forth from work, shopping, etc.? Do they all live along routes well serviced by mass transit? Do they depend on getting rides from others who do have cars? Do they have cars, but use them as little as possible? How does this all work out. This I would guess: They are not moving back into urban centers well-serviced by mass transit in record numbers.
LikeLike
Speaking of Autumn color, here in the north part of Indiana the color is absolutely more saturated and intense than any I can ever remember. An absolutely delightful season in many ways.
LikeLike
Speaking of automobiles, Robert Schuller’s rise to fame was facilitated by his innovative use of drive-in church in the mid 1950’s which was later expanded to hold even more cars. In some ways he started the mega-church trend.
LikeLike
The problem with public transit is that you can go only where it goes. The Atlanta area (where I — and five or six million other people — live) is sixty miles across with bus and train access to only a very small part of it. There is one north-south train line and one east-west train line. Yes, you can go downtown or to the stadium or to the airport, but what if you want to go somewhere else? People who live in Mass Transit Utopias can’t seem to grasp the difference in our situations. The mantra of “Cars bad, Mass Transit good” falls on rather deaf ears around here.
LikeLike
As a lawyer who does a lot of litigation (including a few high profile cases in years past) I want to strongly disagree with the idea that what happened in Houston is basic court practice. Anytime you have a subpoena or ask for discovery in a big case those requests are gone over with a fine toothed comb for public relations issues. (Whether the party has a right to the info is a separate issue). One case I handled that got a lot of publicity involving a local non-religious institution involved hours long discussions on whether to subpoena certain info and how that would play in the press. And you know what was decided: since in that case we could likely get the info through non-subpoena methods that was safer. The Houston subpoenas were definitely politically motivated. That’s fine in its way—I’ve issued politically motivated subpoenas for the pr value on more than one occasion. But let’s be honest about it.
LikeLike
two people counting cash (and not the same two every week)
Way too small. The church I grew up in had a typical Sunday attendance of 500 or less. And the “count” was typically done by 4 or 5 people. And the who did change weekly.
LikeLike
I agree about the decline in baseball, and I’m a semi-serious MLB fan. Yet I had to be told this year that KC and SF had won their respective series — I’d somehow tuned out before either had won their fourth game. Maybe the latest game was on channel 71 or something. Oh well, I’m sure I can listen to someone go on about the last game on ESPN for at least as long as the game itself took to play.
Perhaps the beginning of wisdom in all this is found in an opinion piece I read last year regarding the undeniable, if not exactly meteoric, growth in the popularity of soccer* in the US. It made a number of important points, but its overall theme was that soccer was practically the only sport for grownups. To wit,
1) The cheering is fan-generated
2) You don’t need a DJ playing the Banana Boat Song
3) There aren’t any interruptions (e.g., baseball’s 17 breaks + pitching changes + visits to the mount + … / American football’s very essence consisting of personnel and play management only slightly less detailed than a Politburo’s Five-Year-Plan)
My point isn’t that soccer’s so completely great (who likes “diving divas”?) but that its growing popularity illustrates a lot of where things have probably gone sideways for the MLB as they have adopted megachurch models of fan-friendly and family-friendly ballparks catering to the many, many felt needs of their patrons.
/begin_standard_disclaimer *The etymology of “soccer” is 100% British, deriving from the abbreviation of “Association Football,” and was in standard usage in the UK up through the very time they won the WC in ’66. It remains in use far beyond the shores of the US, particularly in Australia, a country that needs no lecture about how to play sports, and allows people foreign to both the US and Australia to not have to guess what sport we’re talking about when we mention football/footie. /end_standard_disclaimer_already_for_crying_out_loud
LikeLike
Imagine an NBA game where the camera followed the ball where you were only seeing a view about 8′ to 10′ wide. And did this for the entire game. Every now and then after a score or big play they’d show a replay of a wider shot.
This is what baseball on TV has become. You don’t get to see the “game”. Just the pitcher and batter. And thus kids don’t understand how the game works. Based on their TV watching it’s only about hitting and pitching. They “hate” to spend time in the field. And look at you as if you’re an alien if you try and teach them how to actually play defense or run the bases.
This has been going on for 30 years or so and we now have very few people under the age of 50 who know how the game actually is played.
LikeLike
Would giving up one’s tax-exempt status mean that the US government would no longer recognize a church as a religious organization? Would that in turn involve surrendering simultaneously whatever immunity from the law, for instance in hiring and firing, a church had as a recognized religious institution? Wouldn’t that loss be a loss of religious freedom of conscience? Doesn’t this get very dicey?
LikeLike
On the OTHER hand, Christians as a group ARE mean and nasty, chewing up and spitting out their own.
LikeLike
I need to moderate my last post: When I said that the LGBTQI crowd are mean and nasty I did not mean INDIVIDUALS, I meant the ADVOCACY CROWD. Individuals can be as kind and loving as anyone else.
LikeLike
Completely off topics: Pray for all those affected by Ebola, or the threat of Ebola, especially in those nations in Africa where Ebola has overwhelmed already meager medical resources, and where the World Health Organization is predicting 10,000 new cases a month. Also, pray for those on the front lines of providing care for Ebola patients, who daily risk their own lives in routinely under-resourced health care settings; when we think of these brave souls, it would do well to remember Camus’ words in his novel The Plague: “What we learn in time of pestilence: that there are more things to admire in men than to despise.” Thank you, Lord, for these brave men and women; please protect them, and be with them, in their difficult and dangerous work
LikeLike
The cars and megachurch article is thought provoking. It remains thought provoking if you set aside the megachurch aspect of it. It also discusses how cars have driven personal choice into every church, even the smallest.
This can affect even denominational churches with a parish structure and strong denominational loyalty. In a city or its inner suburbs, Roman Catholics will have multiple parishes within their transportation radius. Similarly, in my inlaws town of 50,000 there are at least two Orthodox churches.
A denomination could, as the Mormons do for their wards and stakes, enforce strict geographic boundaries for parishes and require all who live in a boundary attend the relevant church. But doing so comes at the cost of an increased risk of losing the believer to a different denomination. I don’t know of any Christian denomination that enforces parish or other geographical boundaries. My Roman Catholic brother in law certainly has been free to choose which parish he attends, and a RC acquaintance in this city also told me she had choice of which to attend.
Yet we lose something with affinity grouping. We lose the encounter with neighbors who don’t fit our affinity group. My church is very age sorted – at 40 something I’m in the oldest 10% of the church, almost certainly in the oldest 5%. That wouldn’t be true looking at the residents of my zip code or of my city. Despite our desire to be a diverse people, in practice we are a congregation of young adults, way too skewed towards Caucasians (there are some blacks, hispanics, and asians, but they are all clearly underrepresented for the demographics of our community), and also skewed female (though this may align to our community).
There is something to be gained from rubbing shoulders with those not like us – but even more from really engaging with them in the act of living together. We could learn to love our brothers better if we didn’t limit our encountered brothers to our mirror images, for loving our mirror images is scarcely different from loving ourselves.
LikeLike
Government will NEVER go after African American churches for speaking on politics.
The LGBTQI crowd are another matter though. Next to Christians, they are the meanest, nastiest group of advocates around.
LikeLike
This post has been up for over 8 hours and not one word about the pastor of that church that admitted to serial adultery and drug use. Just more nattering about Driscoll.
LikeLike
“Am I a mega-geek-nerd for being irritated by how people talk about all this “streaming” which is not streamy?”
In a word: YES!
LikeLike
” Do you want to speak publicly and controversially about public matters of public and moral controversy? Then give up your tax exempt status.”
If enforced, this would effect urban African-American churches even more than suburban mega-churches, since churches in African-American urban communities traditionally and routinely have advocated not only for such controversial public moral and political matters, but have advocated for particular politicians running for office, even inviting those politicians to speak to congregations in the church. This is the result of the fact that in what were formerly predominately Christian African-American communities, churches have historically served as community centers.
LikeLike
As disappointed as I am about the Cardinals falling to the Giants, they did far better than I ever expected. And even though I’m a pretty huge fan, I love baseball more than my team. This will be a great series, two teams that are fun to watch. I won’t miss a minute of the Series.
LikeLike
What gets me about the Driscoll hand-wringing is the Christianity Today piece about church governance. There is the usual nattering by people who cling to the fond notion that we can discern a single proper form of church governance from the New Testament, but that is old hat. It is how the problem of financial oversight is considered such a dark mystery. This ain’t rocket science: just open your books. Have a budget that anyone (or at least any member) can look at. Yes, that includes the senior pastor’s compensation. Why wouldn’t it? Have at least rudimentary financial controls in place (e.g. two-signature checks, two people counting cash (and not the same two every week), and so on). Every few years hire an outside auditor to look at the books. Personally, I think the members should not only be able to see the budget but to vote on it, but whatever. I am perpetually mystified by people who write checks that go into a black hole.
I get the sense that opening the books is a line that many of these churches wouldn’t even consider crossing: hence the hand-wringing over how to keep the finances reasonably honest without actually shedding light on them. This is, from my perspective, a very weird cultural divide.
LikeLike
Somehow I knew we might be hearing from you, Steve.
LikeLike
Minor correction: you don’t subpoena a party to a lawsuit. If you want documents in the possession of the other side, you simply ask for them. If they don’t pony them up, then this institutes a cycle of motions and responses and hearings, and possibly appeals to higher courts. But subpoenas don’t enter into it. This is because the whole point of a subpoena is it is the court exerting its authority over someone, under penalty (“sub poena”: get it?) A party to a case is already under authority simply by virtue of being a party.
A subpoena is served on an outsider, placing him under authority. A subpoena can also be disputed, either by the person served with it or by a party in the case. They can move to quash the subpoena, setting off a similar round of responses and hearings and possibly appeals. In a situation like this, inasmuch as anything useful can be discerned from spectacularly uninformative news reports, what is likely to happen is discussions to refine and narrow what is being asked for, until the judge signs off on it. At that point if the pastors refuse, then you go into the “contempt of court” round. This can in theory include being jailed, which I expect the pastors would consider a priceless public relations bonanza, so if the judge is smart he would stick to other penalties, including cold hard cash fines: hit ’em where it hurts!
LikeLike
“Adam Graber suggests that cars created the megachurch.”
‘Was this in any doubt?’
Well, cars are certainly a necessary precondition for the megachurch, which is, after all, a suburban phenomenon. Suburbs existed before cars, but they were very different from the modern suburb. Similarly, very large (urban) churches existed before the megachurch, but they had (and have) a different character. That being said, there is a whole list of conditions that had to be in place for the megachurch. Not only those you name, but stuff like the decline of the mainline denominations. I suspect that television works its way in there somewhere. And so on. But yes: cars certainly are high on the list.
LikeLike
Well said. I would add; Or speak publicly and quietly, humbly, (even joyfully) accept the “persecution” that comes your way, like most real followers of Christ have been doing for centuries! (But spoiled, immature american christians want to have their cake and eat it to…and couldn’t countenance such a “retreat”) In the light of history, Christ’s example and Scripture, this sour-grapes whining by a minority that believes it should be privileged above all others is pretty pathetic (and sad) imo… and I might add, it actually works to undermine them in the long run (the fruits of 30yrs of cultural war “crying wolf” is happening more and more). Not saying a peep would be more beneficial to their cause, but again, they can’t countenance any that smacks of “retreat”…
LikeLike
There is a simple solution to this. Do you want to speak publically and controversially about public matters of public and moral controversy? Then give up your tax exempt status. Let’s see how many people who are bellowing for the “Christian voice” to be heard are willing to sacrifice their tax deduction for that privilege.
LikeLike
Although it is fun for San Fran and KC, it is amazing how far baseball has fallen in attention and popularity in just 10-20 years. Such series now bounce around on various cable channels and are beaten in the ratings by both regular season college football and, of course, the NFL.
Baseball needs to make some changes to stop the slide (some would say the NBA is passing it). Would a shorter season help? .
LikeLike
+1
LikeLike
Are webcams usually pitch black at night? 🙂
LikeLike
Jon Miller is a national treasure.
LikeLike
I agree. I had to dig to find any details beneath the hype.
When I see a conservative “sky is falling” news story like this, my first stop is Snopes. That’s really sad. Welcome to post-modernism.
LikeLike
> before speaking out on political matters such as…
Every issue is a political issue. The issue here is not “speaking out” it is taking civil action [a lawsuit].
LikeLike
> They do not deserve our pity OR support!
Agree. And pretty much nobody looses. The places that lack `broadband` in order to do “streaming” almost certainly also lack existing cable infrastructure; so the demise [if that happens] of cable companies won’t do much to deteriorate services for anyone.
As a small gripe – often people are not “streaming” – watching a near-real-time feed of a show from some server. A lot of “streamed” content is good old store-and-forward content. TiVo does this. I buy or rent something on Amazon and it downloads to storage on the device. I then watch it. Is that “streaming”? Not really. It is not any different than listening to an MP3 stored on my device except that I somehow invoked the transfer to my device from somewhere else. I can watch a show from my TiVo when the network is down – I’ve done that.
Am I a mega-geek-nerd for being irritated by how people talk about all this “streaming” which is not streamy?
LikeLike
Then your church, as a non-profit, should think twice before speaking out on political matters such as gay rights. It’s the price you pay for sucking on the public teat.
LikeLike
As for streaming HBO (not interested) and CBS, even $10.00 monthly is too much. If more broadcasters follow this trend then cable prices may be undermined, forcing the companies to ax some of the more esoteric stations while lowering their prices.
My wife and I cut off our cable and put up a digital antenna, and we get 11 stations along with our TiVo which also offers digital music, podcasts, You Tube, etc. for $20.00 a month. This is more TV than we can watch. CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, PBS, and a couple of Mexican stations for ZERO DOLLARS!!!
I do have to admit that I subscribed to The Walking Dead on iTunes and have a subscription for Netflix streaming. All in all, I spend maybe $30 a month on TV entertainment.
Let the cable companies wring their hands in anguish. They do not deserve our pity OR support!
LikeLike
> grievance then lawsuits are the only way to proceed.
I agree. However, filing a lawsuit is a civil action, and all relevant documents will be subpoenaed; just like the sun rising in the east. That is what filing a lawsuit means. Filing a lawsuit is, functionally, *asking* to be subpoenaed. The filer then cannot, honestly, cry foul about it when it happens.
LikeLike
So, if my mayor were an openly gay activist and the city council passes a ridiculous ordinance as they did in Houston, then when 55,000 signatures were gathered to reject this ordinance (only 15,000 were required) and the city lawyers find cause to invalidate ALL of the signatures, then as a Christian I should be careful about taking legal action? This is a case of simple intimidation using the legal system and nothing less. I do not care HOW proper those attorneys requests are, it is still wrong.
If the government doesn’t listen to the governed, and then disregards the only legal avenue that the governed have for redress of grievance then lawsuits are the only way to proceed.
LikeLike
“once you file a lawsuit, you open up yourself and potentially your friends and acquaintances to discovery. This is the aspect that has not been reported, but it is an important part of the context. This is basic court procedure. But the headlines make it sound like a surprise attack by leftists advancing their agenda on unsuspecting Christians.”
THIS! The coverage of the Houston debacle has been extraordinarily sensational.
When I heard the news story I went and looked it up as my reactions was” “What? There is way more to that story..” And there was. Yet we will continue to hear about the Left-Wing “mainstream” media. If they were actually Left-Wing they wouldn’t have [pretty much all] have spun the story that way. They are Hype-Wing, on nobody’s “side”, and certainly not on the side of the reader/viewer who desires an functional understanding of what is actually going on.
LikeLike
“Adam Graber suggests that cars created the megachurch.”
Was this in any doubt? Go to a mega-church and look around. But I suspect it took an additional variable: White Flight [or the uglier more honest term: “Racism”]. Cars helped that too. Birds of a feather can flock – or drive – together.
But number of citizens under the age of 25 without a drivers license has risen to as high as 27% (a number unthinkable in the 1980s). Millennials [currently America’s largest generation] drive less, a lot less, then their predecessors and the most recent data analysis [PIRG] suggests they will hold to this trend line as they enter mid-life. And then there are Baby Boomers aging out of their driving years.
Will the same category of affinity that created the mega-church become a dominant note of its swan song?
PIRG: Federal data on transportation behavior in the United States has shown that between 2001 and 2009, vehicle trips per capita by those aged 16 to 34 declined 15 percent. During the same period, per capita trips by transit among the same age group increased 4 percent; walking trips increased 16 percent; and biking trips increased 27 percent.
Or will we see mega-churchs with bus fleets or built on top of train stations… I wonder if they could afford to do such things.
LikeLike