I have purposely avoided watching Jesus Camp until this week. One of my Advanced classes is using it to write a response paper to The Screwtape Letters, so over three days we watched it, with some debriefing every day.
In this class of ten, several students could relate to various aspects of the film. One young man had been in similar churches and experiences for the first eight years of his life. One of my Ethiopian girls was from a Pentecostal church in her country. One of my American girls was homeschooled on and off for several years. Others had heard various sermons that reminded them of the rhetoric in Jesus Camp.
I have, of course, been around youth camps, youth rallies and youth events my entire life as a Christian and a minister. I grew up in a church that used high pressure evangelism tactics several times a year. I’ve been to youth events where the speakers or musicians were similar to the adults in Jesus Camp. All my life I’ve been surrounded by end-of-the-world scenarios and Satan-is-out-there-in-Harry-Potter type rhetoric.
Still, much of the Jesus Camp experience was strange to me. I have never been around any kind of high powered children’s events or camps. I’ve seen some tactics used in child evangelism that I was uncomfortable with, but this has been very rare. I once wrote a letter protesting our Baptist state paper’s reporting of the baptisms of five year olds in some churches, but I’ve never seen any baptisms of children that age.
I had so many reactions to the film that it would take five posts to record them all in detail. I’ll try to be brief and cover as many topics as possible in short form.
1. I don’t feel Jesus Camp was insulting or unfair. I felt there was a lot of sympathy for the sincerity of those working with the children and for the faith of the children themselves. I wouldn’t hesitate to show this film to a roomful of non-Christians, but I would ask for the opportunity to “locate†what the audience was seeing on the broader map of evangelicalism. This is part of who we are as evangelicals, and the camera doesn’t lie. (See next point.)
2. There were points that I felt the camera was making a large difference in the subjective impressions of what was being seen and heard. This absolutely included the Ted Haggard segment, but also some of the scenes involving Levi, who clearly loves the camera. One never really knows how much production and editing, and the camera itself, have changed the overall dynamics.
3. Becky’s radio interview contains an observation that “Democracy will destroy itself.†This seems to be the problem for people like Becky. They don’t want to live in a culture where those who differ from them are allowed to have an equal voice. Becky wants to control the culture and to have Christians in charge of government, even though she says nothing will be perfect till Christ returns. There was no sense that our fallenness is a problem for governing and shaping culture. Her response to the diversity that challenges our culture is to have Christians controlling the government and punishing unbelievers. This is a complete embracing of the ideas of America as “ours†and as “God’s. There were dozens of references to America as the primary stage of God’s activity. Where is the rest of the planet? (My Ethiopian students found this rather amazing.) One wonders if the logic of a civil war would meet with Becky’s approval.
4. Becky’s admiration for martyrs and Islamic radicals is truly unfortunate. Jesus is not an Islamic radical and those following him are not “God’s warriors.†The militarization of this entire segment of the culture war is frightening to everyone. It makes me sad to hear this kind of rhetoric echoed from many good men who ought to know better. Discipleship is Jesus shaped. We don’t find some misplaced, fallen example of zeal and baptize it as the work of the Holy Spirit.
5. The strategy of using highly emotional issues and highly emotional tactics creates some real concerns for me in the area of manipulation. As a public speaker and communicator, I understand how to push buttons and fan resentments and fears into motivation. If I were a person without integrity or someone ignorant of consequences, I would probably use these tactics for results. But I believe the work of the Holy Spirit is not done by my own efforts and energies. It is done by the Holy Spirit using spiritual means. What many of these adults have done is emotional abuse these kids, and say it is harmless. I believe it is potentially very damaging.
6. My students are exploring the difference in Lewis’s portrayal of the devil in The Screwtape Letters and the portrayal of the Devil in Jesus Camp. The difference is obvious. Lewis sees the devil at work on our wills, character and habits. The sins and temptations of the world and the flesh are of little interest to Screwtape. He is far more interested in pride and excused hatred and cruelty than in temptations to become an imaginary or real wizard. Jesus Camp’s version of Satan is entirely about the agenda of liberals, political issues, failure to participate in approved activities and being “worldly†in an external sense. Screwtape would find a whole world of possibilities for corruption in the world of Jesus Camp.
7. My own study of faith development leads me to believe that many of these young people will abandon this version of Christianity or Christianity entirely by the time they are young adults. The methods used here do not present enough opportunities for these young people to declare independent, become critical of their own tradition or reshape the faith into their own style. All of these are normal and expected stages in faith development. The Jesus Camp method of intense indoctrination, filling the mind with strongly prejudicial opinions and fears, and depending on emotional experiences will likely yield a harvest of discarding large portions of these experiences. This is the “dark side†of a lot of evangelical ministry to young people. With all the talk of a “solid†foundation, what they need is a movable, flexible foundation that allows them to interact with Christianity in a way that they can shape and own for themselves. Many of us know evangelical families who have learned this the hard way. It’s a rather obvious lesson. Why don’t we get it?
8. Jesus and the Gospel were almost entirely absent. Neither were particularly important. Most of what I saw and heard would work just fine in Islam or Judaism.
9. Church elders? Supervising pastor? Probably there somewhere, but it would have been nice to get some idea that Becky isn’t simply free to do whatever she believes will work.
10. Ted Haggard irony. Oh my. So sad, but as a leader it is so easy to hear and see the emptiness being covered up by the persona. I wish that most committed laypersons were savvy to the signs that someone has become flippant to the presence of God and is drinking at the wells of celebrity and narcissism. Haggard’s lines that “I know what you’re really doing and I’m going to tell†come from exactly that place in him where he’s playing with his fears and sins. There are probably thousands of ministers who are out on this same limb: empty, hurting addicted, a double life, but covering it all up with the big act in the pulpit.
I’m glad I finally watched Jesus Camp, but it was hard. I don’t want this to be part of who we are. I don’t want to see children worked into a frenzy, taught to lie and emote, told to let their egos go as they play preacher….but I started preaching at 15. In the past, I’ve allowed high school students to preach. I’ve been at more than one camp where things got way past where I wanted them to go, but the college student counselors were running the show. This is all part of me too, in a small way, and I’m grateful that the movie allowed me to see it.
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Ted Haggard irony. Oh my. So sad, but as a leader it is so easy to hear and see the emptiness being covered up by the persona.
This might come under late-stage invoking of Godwin’s Law, but “emptiness being covered up by the persona” was also the 1942 OSS psych-profile conclusion about Adolf Hitler’s personality. (I have a copy of the OSS report, declassified after the war.) Stripped of its Freudian terminology, the report also hinted how a persona can end up taking over, which reminds me of “The Tragedian” in Lewis’s The Great Divorce.
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Thanks for that, Katha. I’m going to watch this thing again tonight!
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Jesus Camp may be watched on-line:
http://www.documentarytube.com/religion-documentaries/jesus-camp-documentary/
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The 3 points in the film that disturbed me the most were:
1. The kid talking about asking God into his heart at age 5 and, as a child no less, thinking he needed/wanted MORE from life. Yikes.
2. The screaming of “Righteous Judges! Righteous Judges!” by children. Talk about burdening kids with heavy issues. They aren’t ready for the weight of certain kinds of realities. Let them be kids for God’s sake.
3. The rant about how Harry Potter would deserve to die if he lived under God’s law.
I thank God for my evangelical, PK upbringing. I love the Scriptures, I love and value ongoing conversion, I love the reality of a personal devotional life of love for God in Christ.
That being said, I’m thankful I’m no longer identified with that stream. I can take the good I received from it with me and gladly leave the rest of it behind.
Jesus Camp was just another confirmation of the direction of my spiritual journey.
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Joseph wrote: I let my daughter have the run of the library. Sometimes I cringe at the lyrics to the rap music playing in that ever-present iPod but I trust her to discern right from wrong based on what she’s learned and experienced — and her foundation in Christ.
___________
When I was in the third grade at Phillipsburg Christian Academy, I was nearly expelled because I did a book report on “A Tree Grows In Brooklyn”. I don’t know why, even to this day, that it was such a big deal. I remember being called into the principal’s office, being told how disgraceful I was, how I had disgraced my folks, and how I must not love Jesus (whom I had just accepted as my savior the year before at VBS).
My folks stood behind me, and it got very ugly between the principal (who was also my teacher – lucky me) and my folks for awhile. There was talk of transferring me, but for reasons that are long lost now, that didn’t happen. But my folks continued to encourage me to read all sorts of different types of literature, as from an early age I was an avid and voracious reader. I read “Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee” later that same year, but suspected that would not be a good book to report on in school either.
My husband and I have raised our own children with values, morality, and in the Christian faith. One is an adult now, and the other two will be soon. From a young age, within the dictates of common sense, we have allowed them to make their own choices with regard to literature and music. Of course they could not bring home anything pornographic, but beyond that, we set very few limits. They have read all of the Harry Potter books and seen the movies and none of them have turned into warlocks (just as I didn’t turn into a witch when I read “Bedknobs and Broomsticks as a young child).
As I mentioned, we raised our children to be people of faith and morality, so I don’t really get the whole extreme censorship thing. Our eldest, fully dedicated to the Christ-shaped gospel, is very effective in his youth ministry. He has been exposed to many different types of thought, so he can easily discuss topics that range from A to Z with young people. He has not aligned himself with the anti-intellectual movement that so many right-wing zealots have, which does nothing to further the cause of Christ and just makes them targets of ridicule by society (perhaps well-deserved ridicule – see “Why They Hate Us” by IM).
Stating that proven scientific facts are false doesn’t make you a better Christian except to those on the margin that believe the same thing.
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How will our children be expected to discern that something like Jesus Camp is bad if they aren’t aware of enough different perspectives? If all they know is what their parents judge they need to know?
I let my daughter have the run of the library. Sometimes I cringe at the lyrics to the rap music playing in that ever-present iPod but I trust her to discern right from wrong based on what she’s learned and experienced — and her foundation in Christ.
Unfortunately, everyone from slavers to Presidents claims scripture as their authority. And also unfortunately, it doesn’t really cover things like global warming, cloning or Facebook.
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I want to go on record to say the Harry Potter books were originally recommended by a friend who was a Baptist. I had no idea there was any controversy surrounding these books until Book IV came out, and The Onion did a parody article claiming Harry Potter was teaching kids to be witches and wizards. There were some very silly people who didn’t realize that article was parody.
I’ve seen bits and pieces of Jesus Camp, but I can’t watch the whole thing. It really disturbs me, and brings up a lot of crap I prefer to remain supressed.
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Hypocrites in the church? Do tell! There is and always has been hypocrites, false teachers, and crazies, that are used by the enemy to discredit Jesus and His Church. That is why it is more important than ever to defend Scripture as The Authority. The “circus church” is all over the place, as is the “legalism” churches and the “political” churches (Reverend Wright and his Trinity church that Obama attended for 20 years comes to mind). I am not going to waste 1 1/2 hours of my time watching a film about “circus church”. The wheat and the tares will be sifted.
What we need to do is spend our time studying the Word so that we can easily tell the true from the counterfeit.
I do think it is a bit hypocritical for some to be worried that children learn about abortion at a young age, but have no problem with the public schools teaching sex education to the same age groups. As for me, I home educated my daughter so that she was exposed to only age appropriate material. I did not let her read Harry Potter either, nor did we go to the theaters to watch the movies. Last summer she gave a public speech at the Illinois State Fair on “The Myths of Global Warming”. We must be right wing zealots. lol. If I lived in Germany or Massachusetts the state would have attempted to remove her from my custody.
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Karla:
Do you consider it a red flag issue if a student raised in Southern Baptist fundamentalist culture (No moderate use of alcohol, no R-rated movies, no secualr music, etc.) discovers that at a reformed church in an urban area, none of these things are taboo? And the Gospel is style the Gospel?
I don’t like Southern Gospel quartets. I like secular music much more than Christian. The Baptists around here said Harry Potter was of the devil. My kids read all the books. Clothes. Music. Politics. Personal style and culture is flexible. Young people need to make those choices themselves. As a parent of two twenty something pursuing Presbyterianism and Anglicanism, but both committed to Christ, our family is proof that style can change and Christ remain.
The movable foundation is a foundation that can adopt to different places and expressions, but it is still the Gospel foundation. I am not talking about flexible doctrines. I’m talking about taking the Apostle’s Creed/Nicene faith into different places, denominations, churches and cultures without having to abandon it.
A lot of kids leave something they wouldn’t have to leave if their parents had differentiated between Christ and culture.
peace
ms
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I haven’t seen the film, but enjoyed reading your observations. I am middle-aged, been Baptist all my life, home schooled my kids, but always thought independently. It’s taken some years to see some things, but I wouldn’t ALLOW my kids to “make a decision” until teenage years. So, I’m with you on the emotional/fear appeal to children.
The only point you made, that I would like to see more clarity on are the following quotes: “reshape the faith into their own style” and “what they need is a movable, flexible foundation that allows them to interact with Christianity in a way that they can shape and own for themselves”. By definition, a foundation is not generally thought of as movable and flexible.
I feel you are getting into “red flag” area when you suggest individual “styles or shapes” of Christianity. I’m not disagreeing with the difference in growth, understanding and even some application. But we DO need to understand our faith and God’s word as solid and unchanging. After all God declares about himself that he is always the same. I think we can have clear communication of our faith and God’s word without the flavor of indoctrination. And, yes, young people HAVE to embrace it for themselves, from their own will and desire to follow Christ. It can’t be scared into them and be genuine.
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Patrick Lynch,
I don’t want to start blogging in Michael’s comment section, so I’ll just say that I moved out to KC to help a friend try and start a construction company after he dropped out of IHOP’s (International House Of Prayer) pseudo Bible school. 90% of my Christian friends were involved with IHOP, which is very influenced by the whole “Third Wave” thing. There was not really just one experience, but a years worth.
I attended a bunch of different services and a few of their bigger conferences. There were a lot of zealous, sincere people there who loved Jesus, but it was also a climate where someone like Benny Hinn could be taken seriously and where someone like Hank Hanagraph (of whom I am no big fan myself) could be cursed for exposing false prophecies.
Some of the people in Jesus Camp spoke at services and the conferences. Everthing they said was based upon esoteric revelations from God which could be neither confirmed or denied at the time of them “sharing” them. Any questioning of what was said was generally seen as being on par with questioning God Himself.
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My youth group didn’t take it to this level, but looking back on it, I see a lot of instances in which my emotions and desire to “fit in” were exploited.
I have since had my “backslidden” times and come to a point in which I am looking for an “adult” faith – I can’t help but associate all of the charismatic stuff with attempts to let passion overtake reason or insight or depth.
Thankful I’ve moved away from anything even resembling this.
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Just watched the movie… I find the contrast between Screwtape Letters and Jesus Camp fascinating, as well. But that’s not the main point of this comment.
The movie reminded me of a particular instance in my own childhood. My dad (a Methodist minister at the time) was at some big conference, and I went with all the kids to do our own thing. It was a very charismatic group, and, with some coaxing, I was drawn into speaking in tongues (mimicking my dad’s occasional usage of Spanish) and allowed myself to be “overwhelmed” with the spirit (guy with this hand on my forehead, slowly pulling me over backwards). I resisted both. Apparently, the skeptic within me was already developing by that point.
I don’t remember any political talk. Just the pressure to act in a way that the adults considered appropriate. Back to the movie, I have to wonder how much is just acting for the parents, and how much is genuine belief. Cynical as it is…
Not to say that genuine belief at that age isn’t possible, and not to say that everyone feels pressured to act in a certain “god-fearing” way, as I felt at that conference, but my own experiences force me to think otherwise.
I agree strongly with your point #7, and want to add I believe that linking the children’s Christianity to a culture war of any kind only increases the chances that they will lose faith. Thinking of point #8, too much focus on a culture war will lead to decreased focus on Christ. If He’s not the basis of their Christianity, who/what is?
Of course, I may just feel that way because I am vehemently opposed to the mixture of religion and politics, for any reason.
But the movie brought up a few questions and issues in my own mind. As a previous commenter said (would give the name, but I can’t find it again), the image of the little girl who had the courage to go up to a stranger and say something about God was very powerful. (Yet the cynic peeks out and asks if she did it because she was moved or she knew she would be rewarded by the adults present. The cynic asks what effect she actually had on the woman. But hey, God works in mysterious ways.)
But I have to wonder about their regular and typical interactions with the outside world. Aside from the protest/singing and the little girl handing a pamphlet to someone, I saw very little interaction with the outside world in the film at all, certainly none of it habitual.
It seemed, for all their talk of political movement and sin, that they (the kids, anyway) genuinely loved non-Christians. Maybe it was just one or two comments, but they didn’t strike me as the type to be holding up “God hates fags” signs. Their one demonstration was certainly not in that line of protesting. If nothing else, prayer for our nation and a quiet, spiritual protest for life should not be discouraged.
How much are they separating themselves from this world? How much are the kids being protected? For all the talk of “this sick old world,” it seemed the kids (and even their parents, perhaps) saw very little of it for themselves.
And I guess that could go back to the conversation between the radio host and Becky… What one person sees as indoctrination, another sees at education. There are certainly positives to the education/indoctrination. Kids well behaved, loving, not afraid to speak to others about Jesus. And there are certainly negatives. Likelihood that these kids will at some point have a severe crisis of faith and may not have a strong enough base to keep their faith.
Could it be done without the culture war emphasis? Give the kids the Gospel, rather than fetuses (feti?). Teach them theological issues, rather than political issues. Teach them about serving others, rather than just witnessing to others (that might be a good way to expose them to “this sick old world,” yet still be able to protect them).
The Bible does say raise a child in the way he should go, and he will not stray when old (Proverbs 22:6), and to raise them in the discipline and instruction of God (Ephesians 6:4). I think politics is not necessarily where these kids should go, nor is it God’s discipline and instruction…
I guess I’ll shut up now. It’s late, and I’m rambling.
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I only saw part and had to quit watching because I was so disturbed. I couldn’t stand watching those 5 year olds crying, holding plastic figures of aborted babies. Really, I have a 5 year old and I still grieve about it every time I think about it. When did it become appropriate to discuss the gory realities of such things with preschoolers??? I remember first hearing about abortion in the 7th grade (at 13)and it was horrifying to me. I’ll go on record as saying that certain topics are ADULT topics. Abortion isn’t a topic for preschoolers. The shameful manipulation of these children will certainly follow them into their adulthoods.
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I just watched Jesus Camp. I grew up in a Christian family and church. I never knew such a religion as this existed in your country. A complete melding of religion, anti-education, and politics. Scary. Too much emphasis on rebuking Satan. I have never talked to Satan, way too dangerous. Talk to God, not Satan.
I did enjoy the kid who said his mother didn’t allow him to watch Harry Potter, so he just went to his father’s house to do so.
Oh, and I missed the gospel here, probably hidden under all the “stuff”.
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Finally. Saw the movie. What ordinary people. Grew up in and by them all my life (with the exception of speaking in tongues). My first reaction is that they should go into some dark place so I won’t have to see them anymore and I can be more comfortable. I’ve been trying to ignore them for a long time.
What I would like to think about: (1) where my faith and political opinions touch – what parts of these are cultural, and what parts are really about who Jesus Christ is and what God wants; (2) how might I love them more – or in a better way. Let me be truthful. How can I come to a place where I don’t despise them in some ways. Surely most of them are my brothers and sisters in Christ, though they would not claim me as such. No, I don’t mean the children; and (3) how will I be a wiser judge as to what point and to what degree my enthusiasm has more to do with my hard-wiring as a human being and therefore a normal response to “button-pushing” and what is the work of the Holy Spirit.
Oh, I know I can’t intellectualize my way to perfection. But I don’t see how some awareness and reflection could hurt.
Now on to watch Hell House. I think I’ll celebrate Easter first. And pray quietly.
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“For a year or so I lived in Kansas City and saw some of the “adults†from the film preach.
They are simply sick people. Delusional and deluding others.”
Come on, George C. Tell this story!
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Haven’t seen it yet. I think it is great that you have the opportunity to show it to a group and have an intelligent discussion about it. I had planned on showing it to a high school group. After we watched “Lost” and discussed it I was canned as Sunday school teacher. We never got anywhere close to “Saved” (which I did show and discuss with my own teens). I would loved to have shown Jesus Camp and discussed the realities and the distortions with a group of Evangelical kids. Your students must consider themselves lucky.
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How fascinating to link Screwtape Letters to Jesus Camp! Your insights are thought provoking.
Having sobbed my way through WAY too many children and youth camp altar calls I am relieved to see that people are finally honest enough to see them for what they are.
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There is a lot to be said about “Child-like” behavior and belief. Perhaps we should consider this before trying to corrupt young ones to “our” way of thinking.
Perhaps like this Traditional Greek Island Easter celebration:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1310192/my_big_fat_greek_firework_battle/
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Thanks for the review Michael – I’ve been meaning to see this. Eventually I’d like to have a week-long class on evangelism that watches and discusses movies like “Jesus Camp” as a contrast to the Gospels.
“Saved!” is also good for this, btw.
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I don’t recall about which of her films Alexandra Pelosi made the comment below, but I always have loved it. When some befuddled friends had asked her why she was paling around with the likes of George W. Bush and the people in Jesus Camp, she replied,
“We have Paris Hilton. They have Jesus.”
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For Netflix members: Jesus Camp and Hell House are both available for instant viewing.
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pennyak: It’s a contemporary documentary of a church tht does a scare you to Jesus event on Halloween.
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Good post….I have seen clips of the film but I had to stop them, I doubt I could ever watch the film because I grew up with one baptist parent and one pentecostal (they were and still are married…how, I don’t know) and went through so much scary stuff in my dad’s church that I can’t relive that stuff, I can talk about it, in spurts….thanks for this.
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Michael -thanks, found Jesus Camp on amazon, $2.99 multi-day streaming or download rental. Downloading it now. Ref. to Judgment House – found a ministry of that name, a Christian video maker, a 1917 film, a modern horror film, an ebook – would you mind giving me more info?
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Great post. I found the film very disturbing and reminded me a lot of my childhood.
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For a year or so I lived in Kansas City and saw some of the “adults” from the film preach.
They are simply sick people. Delusional and deluding others.
I find it troubling that most of the people that listened to them felt no need to examine any of their esoteric claims. In fact if you did you were looked at as evil.
Like someone else mentioned, I am willing to bet that what we saw in the film was the tme versions of their meetings.
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Geoff D, the camp wasn’t shut down because of “negative publicity” – it was shut down because of death threats and vandalism.
Also, from what I’ve gathered, the Kids On Fire camp isn’t really beyond the pale for a lot of Christian life within that particular subculture; Pentecostals have never feared showing people what they’re doing. If it weren’t for the threat,s they’d still be operating. That’s their mission.
They discontinued the camp for their safety.
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Alexandra Pelosi may very well be a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, but I don’t think one would know it from watching her films. I’ve seen her film on President Bush, the one on Ted Haggard, and Jesus Camp. She actually came across a lot more sympathetic, in a neutral/filmmaker kind of way, than the people at Haggard’s former church were. That very fact made me feel ashamed of the way some Christians act when others fall.
I don’t know what ended up on the editing room floor from Jesus Camp, but my feeling was that one can hardly make this stuff up. The cardboard cut-out of President Bush being brought up to the front of the chapel? The scenes where homeschooling parents were teaching their kids things that are very contrary to science, stuff that would fit into their “young earth” and “global warming is false” construct. I know they have the right to teach their kids anything they want, but it doesn’t make it less disturbing to watch. Becky herself comes off like a trainwreck. It was hard for me to watch, although I’m glad I did see it. It explains a lot, actually.
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I’ve read that the camp has shut down because of all the negative publicity. What did the operators of this camp think would happen once this stuff was exposed to the public.
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I this on tv a year or so ago and I didn’t like what I saw then. After reading this post I went to Youtube and checked some of it out again. This stuff is just too weird for words. Whipping these kids up into an excited mental state like this is not normal or healthy. The teenage girl in the black shirt screaming like a kook makes me think this place is more of a nuthouse than any kind of church. This stuff is just some weird new religion that uses the name of Jesus.I would not let my kid anywhere near it.
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I think this was why I had the “Jesus scared out of me” instead of what they originally intended. Barna Research says that of all Christians who come to faith 83% do so between the ages of 4 and 14. Probability of adults age 19 and over becoming Christians? 6%.
I didn’t become one of the 6% until I was in my 40’s. When I think of all the years wasted because Jesus and the Boogie-man were so closely related, I find myself scared once again; of Jesus Camp.
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I didn’t become Pentecostal till my early 20s, and after that had a few opportunities to see the same sort of things depicted in Jesus Camp. I’ve been to such camps and youth rallies.
Contrary to the impression some people have from the movie, adults don’t have to pressure kids all that much. These kids are eager to preach, evangelize, and be zealous for Jesus. New adult Christians behave this way too, all the time. There’s virtually no difference between their enthusiasm and the kids’.
But it’s not about preying upon weak minds. It’s about the emotional rush that comes from discovering the Truth… and, unfortunately, being led by the rush more than the Truth. Everything worrisome in that movie, you notice, stems from that.
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Michael – your comment #2 is spot-on. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I’ll never forget the segment where the young girl is being encouraged by her parents, on-camera, to speak in tougues for the first time. She seems to be resisting, then she looks out of the corner of her eye, straight into the camera, and recognizes the pressure is on her to demonstrate her Christianity, and she starts babbling.
Now, I believe there is a gift of tongues, and I don’t know too many other languages, but honestly it sounded like something a child would make up.
At that point, I realized the camera was NOT a neutral observer in this film. Honestly, watching the girl performing for the camera made it feel almost pornographic, and it made me as cynical about the filmmakers as the filmakers were about the camp.
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Thinking about Jesus Camp made me think about last summer, which I spent with a bunch of fundagelical Bible-translator-hopefuls at a public university. Some of them considered it their mission to go into the dining hall and make converts.
During one lunch, we were having a particularly pleasant conversation with a guy who wasn’t in our program, but the three others (guys, of course- why is it always the 20-year-old guys?!) performed the quickest witnessing stealth ninja sneak attack I’d ever seen, and in two minutes we went from casual book-and-movie discussion to being bombed with the “gospel”. Scare quotes because the story they were telling bore little resemblance to anything in the Bible.
I sat there shocked as they surged forward in their presentation- not stopping for feedback or questions or any kind of response from the unfortunate target, who was sitting paralyzed with his fork poised over his coleslaw. I finally jumped in with an objection when one of them said he had become a better person since his conversion, and Target should follow his example.
I was trained in this stuff in high school, but I’d never actually seen it in action outside the creepy training films. Where did the idea come from that we should sneak up on people in public places and force them into a Decision? Heaven help us when the same people discover drive-by baptisms.
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You can usually tell when people in Christian leadership are in trouble: They stop preaching who they are for and start in on what/who they are against.
Jimmy Swaggart is the classic example. At one point, he had a powerful ministry that was very Gospel and Christ-oriented. Then he started preaching against things. I remember saying to my mother that something was going awry in his life and that was what was fueling this sudden change to attacking people and “enemy” groups. Talk about prophetic!
And so it is with those who are always letting us know what they are against, who they are opposing, and so on. Those folks end up dashed on the rocks sooner or later.
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Netflix will have it. It may even be streaming on Netflix. Not hard to find cheap copies.
Also watch Judgment House.
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I would like to watch this film, although it sounds like it would be painful. Anyone know how to get a copy? Goggled that it was on HBO, and also saw mention of a follow up film. Pelosi’s daughter (Alexandra, I think her name is) also then did a film on Haggard, which I have not seen either.
Having dealt with friends of various leanings on condemnation/critical comment of books and films whose contents are a complete mystery to them, and disliking that alot (why is alot not a word in the spell checker attached to this site? – LOL), when I can I like to check it out myself. However Michael, in reading a selection of your past comments in the archives, and that you have in fact seen this film, I feel fairly comfortable in your soliciting comments, even from those who have yet to see this film. They seem to be as much about common issues one can see many places, and not necessarily the film, per se.
I never had this problem until the advent of email forwarding. My apologies. I know I am a digressive writer.
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Oh boy did I enjoy the movie. It’s one of my favorites along with Dogma and Saved.
The portrayals may not have been unfair, but they certainly weren’t balanced as a representation of evangelicalism at large. I was able to identify with much of it, but at the same time, much of it was the sort of stuff I felt they were doing at the “other” church (non SBC) in town.
My experience was like a not so excited and hyped up version. “Baptised” is good way of putting it. 🙂
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Read this brief essay by Langston Hughes, entitled “Salvation”. He describes powerfully his reaction as a boy to the high-pressure tent-revival evangelism at his aunt’s church.
http://www.courses.vcu.edu/ENG200-dwc/hughes.htm
I certainly don’t discourage evangelism in churches (that’s part of our act), but if pushed too far and without temperance by the Holy Spirit it can have the opposite effect.
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How wild that this type of activity is seen as normal(depending on someone’s definition of normal) or people have backgrounds with it.
My daughter’s youth group watched it, but to shake them up and give them a lesson in extremism.
But then we are liberal Democrats and our church more or less reflects those values.
It’s actually a pretty boring religious existence compared to what goes on in the movie. Love God and thy neighbor is more basic blocking and tackling than anything. No one ever really gets worked up into a frenzy over a greasy stove cooking breakfast for the homeless.
We do have a lot of people who have been wounded and turned away from God by ‘Christian’ experiences in their childhood. Teaching forgiveness is a big deal there.
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Can I take your class??
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Four things:
1) A friend has been telling me to watch this for a while. Now I’m going to.
2) Great assignment.
3)”Jesus Camp’s version of Satan is entirely about the agenda of liberals, political issues, failure to participate in approved activities and being ‘worldly’ in an external sense.” Unfortunately, this is a whole lotta Christians’ version of Satan.
4)Thanks for the comment about equal time/”happy to have been a fundamentalist” week every month. Hilarious.
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Growing up Pentecostal, I too saw some very similar things that were shown in the movie (especially points 3 and 4 in the mentality of being ‘Sycophants In The Spirit’) especially in terms of the ‘manipulation’, ‘guilt-tripping’, and ‘control’ mentioned in point 5. The warfare stuff creeps me out to this day to the point where I have to walk out of a church if someone starts it up or even talks about it. In reference to IM’s second statement, I really believe that this was the ‘calmer’ and ‘abnormal’ version of their life you saw on film.
I really believe that the children and staff were told way in advance and had plenty of time to practice and rehearse in order to be more conservative and prepare for the film crew. This was done in order to make the movie more ‘acceptable’ to the mainstream while at the same time keep the social services / child welfare departments from launching an investigation into child abuse allegations (movie as probable cause). In my personal opinion, based on childhood experiences I saw within Pentecostalism, I really believe that the ‘everyday normal’ environment within the Jesus Camp is the “extreme” stuff that either got cut on the editing floor based on fears or was never practiced in front of the film crew to avoid the chance of the film crew betraying the Jesus Camp by showing the ‘extreme’ portions. Believe me, these types of people have board meetings and try to enact and think out every possible scenario in order to be prepared.
I believe that if any ‘outsider’ had to go to the Jesus Camp, an appointment would have to be made weeks in advance, the staff and kids would be prepared to be more conservative, the building would get neglected maintenance done, and the staff and kids would probably go as far as to ‘pre-fast’ and do ‘pre-spiritual warfare’ to make sure the ‘ungodly influences’ (remember, we would be outsiders and the ‘them’ in the us versus ‘them’ war) never touched their property.
I saw the same mentality where the neglected maintenance or the ‘patch fixes’ done because we ‘had no money suddenly got ‘fixed’ when ‘revival’ was coming or when the district overseer was visiting. I saw the same mentality of mega-fasts, repent-a-thons, and spiritual warfare all nighters to prevent the enemy from attacking done months before revival. I saw the same mentality (depending on who was coming to the church) where the ‘hyper emotional’ people were pulled to the side and told in advance to either ‘be more emotional’ or to ‘simmer it down’.
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What many people tend to forget is that the movie was filmed way before the exposing of Ted Haggard. Ted Haggard was a dualistic personality within Christianity in many ways. He was widely respected by the Religious Right types for his ‘conservative ways’ and was seen by many within Christianity as being the ‘middle ground’ and more articulate and mannerly with appeal to the secular media than crass folks like Dobson, Wildmon, D. James Kennedy, Falwell, and Robertson. Secondly, because he lived in Colorado Springs, Haggard was deeply affiliated with the leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation (Wagner, Sheets, Jacobs, Pierce) and was seen in the same way that the religious right saw him because those leaders were also crass ad brash in the public eye.
Haggard was the bridge between these two separate agendas that on the outside appeared not to like each other (religious right was more mainline in Christian thought while the NAR was more pentecostal / charismatic in thought) but on the inside worked together in secret because without the other, neither group’s individual agendas would never come to existence. It would have taken the votes for the creation of the religious right utopia in America by the mainline Christians to eventually lead to the empowering of the New Apostolic Reformation as the official ‘global church authority’.
And why is Haggard now despised by both of these groups after his sins were exposed? Because he set their movements and agendas back another hundred years and/or permanently damaged their chances of ever obtaining their agendas. The religious right then looked to Sarah Palin (similar beliefs as Becky Fischer) and the NAR then looked to Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival where Bismarck, ND (Fischer’s birthplace) was ‘prophecied’ as one of the 100 Global Revival training and outpouring centers’.
History tells us how that worked out…..
Becky Fischer is a pick and choose ‘buffet’ version of Classical Pentecostalism, Religious Right fanaticism, Charismatic manifestations, and agendas of the Latter Reign, NAR, and Third Wave movements combined. Go look at her Wikipedia biography,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_Fischer
The evidence is quite compelling with ties to all of the movements.
In reference to statement 9, That is a very good question. I would speculate that it is probably either ‘she is the final authority’ or it’s a ‘board’ of ‘yes men’ who already agree with her combined with relatives (disguised by the names of in-laws)
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Something I’ve always wondered is, if Jesus didn’t start his ministry until he was 30, why do evangelicals (I’ve never come across a Catholic priest younger than that, but I’m sure there are) think it’s acceptable for 15 year olds, or even people in their 20s, to do preaching/ministry? I’ve seen a neverending litany of failed twentysomething pastors, not because they were bad people, but because they were young and inexperienced. Being a pastor, of all professions, needs time and quiet to grow into- but we don’t seem to believe that.
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That movie was my childhood in an hour and a half. My reaction was much like you say it would be imonk. I’m seeking ordination in TEC. But, I’m still a charismatic. Just hopefully a bit more mature and reserved than to think that everything I say is a ‘word from God.’
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Michael,
Point #6 was really good.
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For the person who asked, Screwtape Letters and Jesus Camp demonstrate two very different views of Satan and the role of the demonic. Makes for a good comparison and contrast assignment.
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Great documentary. Daughter of Speaker Pelosi involved, I think. For SF liberals, they did a great job of being impartial to their subjects. I was not a Christian at the age of the subjects of the film, but in the Pentecostal years saw and participated in so much that felt painfully familiar to the JC experience. Michael, I appreciate your take on this and the note that these tactics are consistent and appropriate for other faiths, not Christianity. Good dose of realism.
[Mod edit]
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I haven’t seen this, though I’ve been meaning to.
For a high-quality, dramatic presentation of charismatic church life–one which attracted praise from religious and irreligious people alike–may I recommend Robert Duvall’s film “The Apostle.”
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Michael,
My wife and I watched this and I can say for us, as Roman Catholics living in Pittsburgh this was completely foreign to us. My first impression was that I was uncomfortable with the film and saw what we perceived to be emotional and spiritual abuse and manipulation. But I concede that we were out of our comfort zone. In some ways I could identify with some of the culture war stuff but felt it was taken too far. I thought some of the children were being put into situations where they were guilted and scared. One child seem to be very obnoxious and I could see that the encouragement of his zeal (which in a classroom setting would have been defiance and mis-behavior)could have some negative results in his interactions with others. The end result is that I would never send any of my children to something like this whether it be Evangelical or Catholic.
But I did enjoy your in-depth assessment. I hope we are not training armies of little folk out there but sometimes I get that impression…
I believe indoctrination was a word you used above and I believe that is the impression the movie left me with.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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My blog is about evangelicals primarily. Fundamentalists have gotten relatively little attention from me.
I’m happy for “equal time” posts to remind us of all the good things that were part of our fundamentalist upbringing.
I know that more than a few of my friends get frustrated and want me to have a “happy to have been fundamentalist” week every month.
I don’t recall signing any sort of equal time agreement. I always thought that given the stony silence of most conservative Christians on any topic that reflects poorly on them, I WAS equal time.
Jesus Camp is not an indictment of fundamentalists. Aside from the culture war rhetoric, many fundamentalists would find the Pentecostalism portrayed here to be highly offensive.
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I want to recommend reading a blog post about what we should remember/ retain from our fundamentalist past. [Mod edit]
I know that this post on Jesus Camp [Mod edit] looks at the particular shortcomings of modern evangelicalism. I also know that the person behind iMonk grew up in a fundamental tradition, and still works at getting over it. But… there are some things you can’t hold against fundamentalists, and as we move toward post-evangelicalism (and whatever comes after that) there are some things that we should try not to lose and/or get back. Ray Ortlund’s blog is titled Christ is Deeper Still. Consider this post:
http://christisdeeperstill.blogspot.com/2009/04/i-remember-when.html
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Katie,
Don’t get me started on Battle Hymn of the Republic. I don’t know where you live, but no self-respecting Southerner would sing it. The grapes of wrath being trampled in that yankee abominiation of a song were my ancestors, about 7 of them actually. I have the documentation.
Whew.
That feels better:)
Sorry Imonk, I had to. Sometimes my SCV member comes out in me.
And to all my yankee friends. I love you anyway:)
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Three things.
1. I think it is hard to divorce the socio-economic distinctives in this group. It might just be my experience, but most fundie’s I knew growing up were poorer and less educated than the general population. We as a family were too. Good folks but just poorer and less aculturated. However, most fundie’s I know are not this bad. But I have seen it.
2. I started preaching early too, at no one’s encoragment, in fact several folks tried to discourage me. I was 12, but have been at it since. It does happen but you have to have a good mentor or three. I had several. It made all the difference.
3. We put way to much pressure on kids. A few examples.
a. I can remember being told often that going to public school was my mission field. I was supposed to do “witnessing” at school.
b. True Love waits and purity rings may be noble ideas, but it puts so many eggs in a basket that when kids do slip up in that way they just give up on the whole thing.
c. Baptist churches, at least the one’s I grew up in, gave kids too much voice. The saying was if they were old enough to be saved, they could vote. So you have 9 year old snots voting for the church to take a loan out for a van ministry, but they contribute nothing, have not experience, and are easily manipulated. I have seen the young vote manipulated to vote our pastors, vote in pastors, vote in x or y. When I suggested to my own church a few years back we limit in our by-laws the voting to people at a minimum of 12 they looked at me like I was crazy.
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Fact is she probably spoke very little actual gospel. Despite what they did leave out the things she said in this movie was straight up christianese legalism. Don’t tell me Jesus himself never sat down and listened to a fairytale.
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I loved the movie; I’ve said it before, but it made me cry.
I saw a socio-economic tragedy attempting to take refuge and identity in faith: I sympathize with this and could see a real innocence mixed up in all the creepy Maccabees+Apocalypse marshalling. As much as the excesses in the film represented a failure of Evangelicalism to teach Jesus-shaped discipleship, it shows the underlying zeal for holiness that Evangelical religion can have; I suspect there was more Jesus being preached than made the final cut, too.
One good thing was that the community was protective and proud of it’s kids, and the difference between them and their ‘Big Time’ co-religionists (Ted Haggard, et. al.) was total – Becky’s paranoid Christianity wasn’t, in the last analysis, cynical about its own faith. Say anything else about them, but they were struggling to be proud of themselves and where they came from, far away from the American Dream.
And those kids were brave and beautiful.
Thanks for finally reviewing this one, Michael. I’ve been curious about your thoughts on the film for awhile now.
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I’ve only seen clips of this movie in class, but I wanted to just mention a couple of things. The scene in the bowling alley with the two girls trying to convert that other young woman – a little awkward, yes, but growing up in mainline Protestantism, I can honestly say that neither me nor any of my friends would have had the guts to do that at that age. Most of us still don’t. Hmm.
Also, I just wanted to clarify on your point 4 – again, I haven’t seen the whole movie, so I’m probably missing something, but…you’re not talking about getting rid of any and all militaristic imagery, right? Based on the little you said here, I certainly agree that I don’t want us to be producing little Suicide Bombers for Jesus, but neither do I want to get rid of Onward, Christian Soldiers or I’m In the Lord’s Army or the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
Thanks, as always, for you fabulous ministry. Have a great Holy Saturday and Easter!
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Of Screwtape and Jesus Camp, I’m only familiar with the former. While its canonical status is still being debated, I recall its being very helpful to me as a teen, as I hope is also true of your students. I’d be interested to hear more of the classroom discussions the comparison engenders.
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