The Safest Place To Be

178 thoughts on “The Safest Place To Be”

1. the nissan murano is a bang for the buck car, i own one and i would have to say that this is a great car ;~`

   LikeLike

2. And how to get affiliated?

   One word: PAYOLA.

   LikeLike

3. the good thing about the Nissan Murano is that it looks very sexy and tough`”:

   LikeLike

4. Jeff,

   The situation over here in the Netherlands is pretty much the same… I order my books through the dutch equivalent of Amazon (bol.com) and even my christian music.
   Nothing of quality is being sold any longer in christian book stores who have given up on their evangelical idealism and have turned into businesses who just want to survive economically.

   I do guess they have outlived their usefulness… Yet over here mainstream bookstores don’t sell christian books but only new agey stuff and yes some bibles and qurans of course.

   Then again, North Western Europe is post christian now unlike huge parts of the USA.

   LikeLike

5. Pingback: Safest Place to Be» Making Chutney

6. Don’t worry. Christian bookstores are quickly becoming a thing of the past. They can’t compete with Amazon.com and larger more diverse books stores. I think the reason they carry mainly ‘safe’ books is because they have to stock books that sell in large quantities to stay in business. And, face it, books like one about Marsha aren’t best sellers at any book store. Non-Christian book stores and publishers may carry and publish them because they have a broader selection and more diverse clientele. Books that sell well (which tend to be ‘safe’ books, or just plain junk) make up the loss from those that don’t.

   I think I understand Nathan Carpenter’s comment. You’re beating a straw man here and getting all self righteous about it to boot! Christian book stores may have served their purpose in the 70’s and 80’s when mainstream publishers and stores weren’t much interested in catering to Christian interests. Back then you had to order just about any book that you could easily find on the shelf in a Christian book store. The Christian book publishing industry grew tremendously during that time and other publishers and stores wanted that business. So Harper and Row bought Zondervan and Borders and Barnes & Noble have much larger selections of Christian books and better volume discounts with companies that publish them.

   Christian book stores have outlived their usefulness, that’s all. This hasn’t much to do with anything but the way the whole book publishing and selling business has changed in the last 15 years. What you see happening with Christian book publishing and selling are the symptoms of victimization of their past success.

   LikeLike

7. I love reading & listening to Anne Lamott tho I think her politics are (her words about my politics) “bat**** crazy” and I hate having to pretend that Jesus was OK with her abortion & all the others that she’s an activist for. And there are a lot of Christians who may be understanding about Sara MIles’ orientation, but not at all OK her practice thereof.

   LikeLike

8. It and the superior sequel A DISTANT THUNDER were both made with heart. These people scrimped & saved to make it because they by God believed it’s message. Contrast that with the sterile sanitized LEFT BEHIND films. (Tho I did like APOCALYPSE II-IV done by the same company. Nick Mancuso is the best movie AntiChrist EVAH!)

   LikeLike

9. Pingback: Articles of Interest 10-23-10 | Onward, Forward, Toward...

10. “I have a huge problem with the vapidity of evangelical subculture, but sometimes IMonk contributors and commenters have a way of making me want to go listen to Focus on the Family and read Janette Oke until my head explodes.”

    I’m so confused now.

    LikeLike

11. @Jeff: off topic, but I followed Meg Mosley’s post to her blog and skimmed the Oct.15th entry done by her daughter. The topic is what it is like to grow up with a writer for a mom, and some tips on writing . I thought it was very good stuff, so this is a FYI… the ‘title’ is “In Which Cindy Chen Guest Posts”. Enjoy.

    Greg R

    LikeLike

12. I got to the fifth sentence, “It’s your near by local Christian bookstore,” and cracked up. So true! You also won’t find him much in Christian movies. In Christian movies, everything is neatly wrapped up. You just know everything is going to work out the way it’s supposed to – for faith-filled Christians, that is. The wife is going to get pregnant against all odds, the loser team is going to win against all odds, and – whoops! I’m giving away the whole movie here. (“Amazing Grace” is a welcome exception to the bad fare found in most Christian movies.)

    My husband once ordered a Navigators study in the Christian store for a guy at work whom he was discipling. He’d ordered them there a year or two back, but now, the worker had never heard of Navigators studies. When I could not conceal my amazement, she acted offended. Well, I shouldn’t have even been surprised, much less amazed. My husband found the study online and ordered it. I’m sure he received what he ordered in much less time than the Christian store would’ve gotten it to him. (Notice I said “received what he ordered.” That would in itself be really amazing at the C bookstore.)

    During the time of the first Narnia movie, I was looking for a particular book by C.S. Lewis. The C bookstore hardly had any, and they indicated they didn’t expect any more in. I went across the street to the evil secular bookstore and found a whole table and other section devoted to C.S. Lewis.

    Don’t get me started on the # of times I came in to pick up an order, and they couldn’t find it and expressed doubt that I’d ordered it, despite the fact that they’d called. One time, my order had been placed so long before that I was having trouble remembering what I had ordered. And someone in line ahead of me had the same trouble, so it wasn’t just me.

    Oh, and while I am ranting – I know, I’m bad – I once ordered a Bible study from an online Christian book source. They sent me an old edition. When I called and explained, the guy said to return it. When I asked if they had the current edition, he said, “Probably.” When I asked if I had to pay return shipping, he said, “I don’t know. Probably not.” (I did.) So, I returned that one at my expense, got on line on the evil secular bookstore’s site and received the current version in 2 days.

    I don’t go into that Christian store, or shop the Christian website, since then. I would say I’d have to be desperate to go either place, but then, I only ever get desperate when and after I’m in there.

    LikeLike

13. Simon, I wish all CBA editors were required to read your essay. I’m a novelist, and I keep the essay on my bulletin board with a few other incendiary pieces.

    My first novel is coming out from a CBA house next year, and my wonderful, gutsy acquiring editor understood why the story includes a Christian character who isn’t exactly CBA-friendly. She nixed the cussing, but she let most of the character’s “vices” stand, including booze, tobacco, and (most important) taking potshots at evangelical dogma. I’m glad to have landed at one of the more liberal houses, but I wish I didn’t have to worry about these issues at all. I’m bracing myself for the reviews from teetotalers.

    I’ve enjoyed some of Susan Howatch’s books, and I love Marilynne Robinson’s Gilead. She sets the bar high.

    LikeLike

14. That’ll teach us!

    LikeLike

15. Thanks for the kind words J. Michael. Always nice to know of a fellow pilgrims struggle when it pertains to your own. Much of my heartache has been self-inflicted so don’t feel bad for me. There are victims and I am by no means one of them. I won’t give up on my writing since I already have, and found renewed energy for the task in doing so. I have something to say that many will not only relate to, but will be inspired by – I’m confident. And you keep your head up too, and your eyes on Jesus, I’m certain his are on you.

    Looks like you have a great blog going. Your experience with the publisher you describe sounds pretty typical, and it’s no wonder so many mamby-pamby “Christian” books become best-sellers at our local Christian bookstores – but there are is a hunger out there for gut level books on Christian spirituality no matter. Your observation on true-to-life fiction sounds as if that’s your gig. Go for it. Many of the best books ever written were years and years in the making – and even more years to get into publication. Look how many years it was until Michael wrote his 1st book.

    LikeLike

16. “I THANK THEE, LORD, THAT *I* AM NOTHING LIKE THAT FILTHY PUBLICAN OVER THERE…”

    LikeLike

17. Affiliated publishers pay a fee to guarantee that their books are automatically, without regard, placed in Christian (once-upon-a-time) Baptist Bookstores…

    Sounds a lot like PAYOLA to me.

    “When coin in CBA’s coffer rings,
    Then your book to Heaven springs!”

    LikeLike

18. For all the shortcomings and sins of the RCC throughout the ages I must say I just don’t find some of the issues that are so prevalent in the varied protestant – evangelical churches that are presented here. Yet, so many still like to throw “mud” at the catholic faith as though it is full of heresy and not part of the “real” church of Christ. The woman in your story , Jeff, would not be rejected or considered a bad christian because she had something to drink. Nor would her life as a child of God be questioned. Most communities would grieve with her and support her – granted to what extent would vary on each individual. The main point is that in the RCC failing as a human being, sinfulness, is pretty much expected – Jesus didn’t come for the self-righteous but for sinners.

    Does this mean everyone in the RCC is loving and merciful – gosh no and I can personally testify to that – but they are the one’s who don’t represent what the church teaches and strives to represent.

    I’ve been in various christian(non-catholic) bookstores as well as RCC ones. I can’t speak for fiction because I prefer other types of literature. Though I learned from a previous responder here that there is a whole genre of catholic science fiction… I will say, that in the majority of RCC bookstores I’ve been to, there is a mixture of content which includes volumes of the Fathers of the Church, books of Aquinas, Augustine, documents of the church on sacred music, the councils through the ages etc. The Catechism of the RCC and the documenst of the 2nd Vat Council are both filled with Scripture, writings of the Ancient Fathers and numerous holy men and woman who exemplified the christian life. You can also find classical sacred music from throughout church history along with more contemporary music.

    Now for to shock you – talk about a book on love, romance, sex, human ecstasy – Pope John Pauls book on Human Love in the Divine plan “The Theology of the Body” – or the 4 volumn series of Bernard of Clariraux on the Song of Songs (talk about sensual writing..) and also the writings of John of the Cross, who is considred one of the greatest literary poets of Spanish literature. His poems the Spiritual Canticle and the Living Flame of Love are truly sensual love stories of the soul in love with God.

    I’ve also seen RCC bookstores with a good selection of non-catholic christian books….To find CS Lewis’ works would not be out of the ordinary.

    LikeLike

19. I have a huge problem with the vapidity of evangelical subculture, but sometimes IMonk contributors and commenters have a way of making me want to go listen to Focus on the Family and read Janette Oke until my head explodes.

    LikeLike

20. Amen!

    LikeLike

21. Maybe this also explains why most “Christian” movies are so bad.

    On the other hand, despite its cheesiness, A Thief in the Night – 1972, Russ Doughton/Mark IV – is a decently entertaining film, acting- and story-wise, especially considering its shoestring budget.

    LikeLike

22. Great message here, one with which I totally agree. As a new small press owner of Christian, crossover and secular books, I can totally relate. And as one who was hit by a drunk driver a few years ago, I can relate on a deeper level.

    Chila

    LikeLike

23. Sometimes they market to men, or at least to the angry-white-male stereotype. The sex seminars were probably targeted to middle-aged men.

    Many of those whom I know in the evangelical wilderness or are attracted to liturgy and ancient worship practices are men. I don’t see that reflected in Christian books.

    LikeLike

24. I am a Christian, and I do write fiction, the question and the doubt came to my mind early on as to whether my work would be accepted by CBA.

    I still doubt it would, but then I don’t care.

    My fiction is a little on the gritty side, but at least I’ve never had anyone throw one of my books at me and hit me on the head. Yet!

    As for Christian book stores I have never frequented them, so I don’t know what they carry along the line of fiction.

    I don’t write fiction with the aim of making big bucks, or to please the local Baptist congregation, my fictional characters have real problems. I will not change a word to be accepted by CBA, because I am the writer that God made me.

    LikeLike

25. Woud any of these bookstores have Anne Lamott or Sara Miles books in them? They are two of my favorite writers, but I bet some folks have “problems” with their history or in Sara’s case, with her “orientation.” They are missing out on some great, inspirational writing. They should remember that the apostle Paul had quite a history too, having been a part of persecuting/killing Christians.

    LikeLike

26. Don’t forget to have some sort of Animorph rip-off character. Because we have to have a love triangle 😉

    LikeLike

27. Yay for the bookstore kitties!

    LikeLike

28. I prefer Catholic bookstores. They have their own selection of pabulum, but the ones I frequent have a much larger selection of classics and meaningful texts. I don’t remember ever seeing fuzzy dice or bonnet novels in one. They are a good place to find icons, prayer beads and crucifixes. It all can become mere religious trinkets and merchandise (a lot of crucifixes are mass-produced in China), but I think there is a difference. Evangelicals seem to have a more difficult time with the sacramental potential of objects and art – assuming all such things are idolatrous. As a result, evangelicals still have religious objects, but they tend to be trivial and sentimental rather than sacred, objectively meaningful, beautiful, and valuable.

    LikeLike

29. Posts like this are a big part of the reason I keep reading imonk. Thank you, Jeff. We stopped shopping at the local Christian bookstore quite a while back. I do appreciate the Fuller Seminary bookstore and blow too much $ there when I go, but it’s more than 100 miles away so don’t get there often. Not a safe place, but a good one.

    The whole concept of building a safe place like the bookstores do runs against the grain of gritty faith for me, and it really does extend to the evangelical subculture in general. The church we have been sometimes going to recently had a series on “margin” — all about creating buffer zones in your life against things like financial downfall, sin/temptation, lack of time, etc. Am I the only one who can’t find this concept in the Bible really? Strikes me that most of the Bible “heroes” are people who quite decidedly lived on the edge and beyond it, without any margin or any real safety of the clean and shiny Christian bookstore variety. The few times I’ve been anything like them were at once the best and most difficult in my life.

    To paraphrase Bilbo Baggins, I think I’m quite ready for another adventure. 🙂

    LikeLike

30. They end up in the discount pile probably because the typical Christian bookstore customers are headed straight for the Osteen section. Maybe the bookstore owners are not the ones to blame. Maybe they are like Aaron – compelled by the people to give them what they want: a golden calf that they can call “god”.

    LikeLike

31. Wow. The Amish romances make much more sense after reading that list.

    LikeLike

32. “We give people what they want, since it’s about what sells…

    Does it really sell? Around here the Christian bookstores keep going out of business. Too much competition from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Borders, or the seminary bookstores. And Wal-Mart sells Left Behind and the Rick Warren books. What’s left to sell but the fuzzy dice that say “Jesus”?

    LikeLike

33. “giant fighting robots or women in improbable armour:

    That would be Lyle Ashworth, the bishop’s wife. Improbable armour would be the little black dress and the heels.

    But I’m assuming that you meant giant-fighting, hyphenated. She does that. Otherwise the metaphor doesn’t work.

    LikeLike

34. HUG…don’t forgot to do your duty and vote this November in a way that would make James Dobson happy!!!

    LikeLike

35. I was struck by how cheesy and superficial so much Christian music is. All the answers….all certainites. I was frustrated when Steven Curtis Chapman re-wrote the song “Yours” in the wake of his daughter’s death. It just made me question him more. I mean when my Mom dealt with cancer and my friend dealt with homosexuality it became this great time of prolonged doubt and tore them apart. And as I have leanred with my grandmother’s death you never truly get over it. It’s a new normal. But it shocks me to hear how willing he was to praise God afterward with the act of everything being resolved.

    LikeLike

36. Let’s be real…most faith communities wouldn’t be open to her. I’ve seen faith communkties force people to live double lives and hide from their problems. Unless she wants to learn how to become an actor and live a facade like lots of people do in Bible studies, church, etc..

    LikeLike

37. HUG…you forgot the Pretrib rapture!!! THAT’s a must!!! 😀 😀 😀

    LikeLike

38. Now if the accident happened after digesting some grape juice 5 hours earlier than that would be different!!!

    LikeLike

39. The slogan at Denver Seminary bookstore is ‘Putting the Book back in Bookstore’. Great books, but I can never seem to find any Left Behind books there.

    I personally think a cat adds a lot of credibility to a bookstore. 🙂

    LikeLike

40. I’ve seen it at my local Family Christian Store.

    LikeLike

41. Did you know that general market bookstores or rather larger bookstores, at least here in the US, only created a Christian section so CBA titles would have a specific place to put their targeted fiction? The only difference is you can find non-affiliated, non-targeted Christian work here. But it’s so over-run by CBA targeted fiction that most authors, such as myself, forgo having my books placed in this section even though I have a lot of CBA market readers.

    LikeLike

42. Very astute 16 year old. I’m 43 and an just getting the hang of life not always being pretty, but God still being good. It’s amazing how many people hear about my illness (chronic headaches and frequent migraines) and are determined that I must just have not tried the right doctor (and I am an M.D.!) or that I need to be prayed over by the right people. Modern evangelicals have a hard time handling pain and problems. We’ve accepted this false notion of a God who will make our lives turn out perfectly if we just say the right words, listen to the right music, and go to the right church. Yet, my experience and the Bible tell me that God is far more interested in making me more like Jesus, even when it hurts (“Consider it all joy”, etc.).

    I pray that this young woman doesn’t get disillusioned by Christians before she learns to put up with all of our garbage. Because we have at least as much as the unbelievers – we just like to think we hide it well.

    Catherine

    LikeLike

43. Oh my gosh! That list made me cry I was laughing so hard! No Catholic expressions of any kind, no darn or durn (I would be rendered mute without them as they are some of my fave words) and a suggestion to use the word blast as a replacement? And then further on to say, “we don’t want to sound quaint or absurd.”

    LikeLike

44. Good grief! I grew up in central IL, real near an Amish community in Arthur, IL. My sister student taught at the local elementary school and taught a number of Amish children as that community did not run its own school, they used the local public school. It’s not unusual to see Amish buggies parked out front of the mall and running on rural highways.

    Somehow I never thought of them in a romance novel sort of way… And it sounds like these books are just about all written by English (cracked my sister up that they referred to her Ashkenazi-Irish self as such) authors, meaning what I suspect one gets is an overly sentimental sappy view of their lifestyle that concentrates on the quilts and furniture but not on the animal slaughtering and privy.

    LikeLike

45. I regularly listen to K-LOVE & occasionally throw them a few bucks. For music, I prefer the SDA LifeTalk network but I can only access that through the Net. I have a different take about Christians seeking “Safe” listening & reading. It’s often not because they are sheltered & naive & want to stay in their coccoon. It can be because they are hurting or have seen enough darkness in their lives, that they want some safe place they can escape to. Re “safe for the whole family” radio, why shouldn’t Christian parents have one station they can turn on & not be afraid the kids will hear something disturbing? Believe me, I’ve heard a lot of Christian radio, especially talk radio, that has PLENTY of disturbing stuff that you would only want your kids hearing if you were right there to talk to them~ tales of abuse and immorality that would take a whole lot of explainin’!

    Now, bookstores have much less excuse. They can be sectioned. Now, I think Marsha’s story could very well be marketed to a general Christian audience. The meth smoking PDL-reading lady who talked down her captor who was an escaped murderer sure got a book contract! (I don’t know how sales went.)

    LikeLike

46. Better Saberhagen than SMeyers.

    LikeLike

47. Sounds like you’re referring to Amish romances put out by CBA houses. I found a clever response from a reader who enjoyed Amish romance novels. When answering a question concerning what he liked about Amish Romance novels (put out by CBA houses) the reader replied, “well when I read Amish Romance stories I like to read about the Amish. Not about how evangelicals view the Amish.”

    Classic!

    LikeLike

48. Not being a Christian fiction reader, I didn’t know the rules…

    Here they are — the infamous Christian Romance Novel Naughty List.

    On the same blog is a two-part interview with Christian romance writer Tess Mallory:
    Tess Mallory Interview Part 1
    Tess Mallory Interview Part 2

    The bookstores, however, do receive full credit for the array of jaw-dropping sentimentalist kitsch on display. If you quit shopping there, where will you get your simplistic bumper stickers and goobery-eyed figurines?

    They’re called “Jesus Junk Stores” for a reason.

    LikeLike

49. They’re actually called “Bonnet Romances” or “Bonnet Books”.

    Here’s a USA Today article on them.

    LikeLike

50. Hello again, everyone.

    Jeff – you can buy me a beer along with Greg. The essay contents are useable by all under a creative commons licence, no royalties expected! Though I must admit, the one time I was in the US (World Horror in Kansas City), I found your beers most… disappointing. Finally managed to track down some bottles of micro-brewery wheat beer which actually had *flavour*.

    Reaching readers? Write a story they want to read, then want to tell their friends about. So easy to say, so hard to do. Mainstream publishers genuinely don’t blink if they encounter Christian characters in a story – it’s how you portray them that matters. Make them real. Like Marsha’s real.

    I’ve got a copy of Gilead sitting on my desk at the moment: published in the UK by Virago, a pro-feminist imprint of LittleBrown, and has a cover quote from Sarah Waters, the very successful (lesbian) author. Write something with the emotional punch of Gilead. Publishers will fall over themselves to buy it. None of them will be CBA.

    Kozak – yes, it’s traditional. I abolished England and sunk Japan without a qualm, but turning the USA into a quasi-theocracy (albeit an elected one)? I really don’t know how that’s going to go down with y’all.

    Ted – Susan Howatch. While it’s not my usual fare (not enough giant fighting robots or women in improbable armour), I have read some of the Starbridge books and found them most excellent. Very human stories.

    LikeLike

51. Maybe someone can help, I’m puzzled by Amish Bonnet romances? Why are these in Christian bookshops? What are they about? I take it they’re not bodice rippers. I thought the Amish have arranged marriages?

    LikeLike

52. I asked about it at my local Christian bookstore, never heard of it, nor did he offer to special order it. I was being casual about it, though.

    That one tends to give me the hebby-gebbies, for some reason. I don’t go in, nor spend my money, there. Give me Borders and Amazon.

    LikeLike

53. Actually they’ve always discriminated. It’s just that now they discriminate against their own kind. *gasp*

    LikeLike

54. Mark Driscoll is published by Crossway Books and Bibles a CBA member publisher. There’s the other side of the two-sided story behind CBA’s existence. The stores themselves can discriminate now. How cool is that! *marked mock sarcasm* Affiliated publishers pay a fee to guarantee that their books are automatically, without regard, placed in Christian (once-upon-a-time) Baptist Bookstores but now paying the fee doesn’t even mean you’ll get in if that store owner decides his visitors won’t like your work. Say it ain’t so!!! Too bad. It’s so.

    LikeLike

55. I think I’ve already started, Ted. It’s in the mid-80s where I am today…

    LikeLike

56. My Christian bookstore doesn’t even carry any of Mark Driscoll’s books. I guess “the cussing preacher” is too controversial for its tender clientele.

    LikeLike

57. Richard, I said to get the whole story you will have to wait for the book. She was not drunk. You’ll have to take my word on that. But her neighbors found her guilty even before the trial. And now the CBA crowd has found her guilty as well. Nice to know we are not different in any way from the stone-throwers of Jesus’ time…

    Now, if someone could come up with a time machine and a digital camera, travel back in time and capture what Jesus wrote in the dirt, that would be a best-seller to the CBA crowd.

    LikeLike

58. “I’m still googly-eyed over the notion that a Christian bookstore has *fiction* (and Amish romantic fiction even!) in it.”

    Oh, you are so innocent…

    LikeLike

59. Four words: Bram Stoker short-listed. For the sequel, Forever Richard six words. Okay five words and one number.: British Fantasy Society’s 2010 Long-List.

    I’ve no idea where you get paranormal romance. But it’s been called everything so there ya go!

    LikeLike

60. If it’s not from a CBA/ECPA affiliated house it’s not in LIfeway. It’s really not rocket science. The only non-affiliated books in LifeWay or any Christian bookstore (here in the US) are ones that the bookbuyer for Lifeway or other store decides is targeted enough to let slide OR if like The Shack and CS Lewis’ work, they’d lose too much money NOT stocking it. Why are we stilling trying to figure out why books aren’t in a Christian Bookstore here in the US? That’s just mind-boggling to me.

    LikeLike

61. Hi there! Glad my friend referred me to this interesting post. I do think some responsibility falls on Christian fiction publishers who, after all, set the standards by which authors get published. Not only is the drinking thing taboo, but so is bad language, even when spoken by non-Christian characters. Not being a Christian fiction reader, I didn’t know the rules, which is why my books will never be found in the world’s safest places.

    The bookstores, however, do receive full credit for the array of jaw-dropping sentimentalist kitsch on display. If you quit shopping there, where will you get your simplistic bumper stickers and goobery-eyed figurines?

    LikeLike

62. I’m still googly-eyed over the notion that a Christian bookstore has *fiction* (and Amish romantic fiction even!) in it 🙂

    My nearest version of this would be the Veritas bookstore in Cork, and I don’t know if they sell Christian fiction because (blushes to admit) I’ve never really patronised them (apart from quick dash in to buy missal as present for sister and the likes).

    Though looking up the Veritas website, they do seem to have gone the route of including the “Jesus Junk” gifts and trinkets:

    http://www.veritas.ie/Gifts/Angels/list2.aspx

    I suppose it’s as you say – whatever sells.

    LikeLike

63. “bood” is ,of course, BOOK…….ooops

    LikeLike

64. send your bood to the Coen brothers….they can make an oddball, worth watching movie out of it.

    Keep writing, even if it’s just for you, GOD, and a few snoopy angels.

    Greg R

    LikeLike

65. ouch……that’s funny

    LikeLike

66. Ordinarily, paranormal romance brings me out in hives, but that sounds less teeth-rottingly saccharine (and brain-meltingly contrived) than the usual.

    Do we get evil vampires who are staked by the heroes? Because my test of a good story – do the evil vampires get staked, not treated as Bryonic love-interests or dashing heroes (sorry, Fred Saberhagen, but I don’t like your rehabilitation of Count Dracula).

    🙂

    LikeLike

67. “We don’t want to learn anything. The only reason you’re here is to Keep Us Comfortable.”

    HUG, you keep coming back to George Orwell. Knock it off!

    In 1984, p. 129 in my copy, Orwell says:

    “In a way, the world-view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm, because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird.”

    LikeLike

68. Simon, I just skimmed your essay “Sex, Death, and Christian Fiction”. Very informative.

    I wonder what you think of your British compatriot Susan Howatch. She breaks all of the rules that you cite in CBA’s criteria, and includes, as you do, “excessive drinking, graphic violence, massive amounts of swearing and ‘sexual situations’.”

    Her series of six Anglican novels, or “Starbridge Series”, really hold my interest. Clergymen, not just ordinary sinners, pushing the limits of power, sex and alcohol. Stories resolved without CBA endings. Heartbreak, broken lives, theologies in rubble, yet leading to “something”; but that something isn’t always attained. I’m still waiting for a sequel to resolve the miserable outcome of Venetia Flaxton’s unrequited affair with the Dean of the Cathedral (who happens to be her father’s best friend). Through these books (and with help from Upstairs, Downstairs) I’ve become not only an Anglophile but an Anglicanophile. And I’m a Baptist.

    We need more fiction like this, not a blacklisting of it. Keep the faith.

    LikeLike

69. That’s where I look first. You find the best books there!

    LikeLike

70. The harm is that 1) a false faith is being sold to unsuspecting believers. When real life hits, how many will throw it all away since it didn’t work out like the fairy tale Amish romances. 2) It discredits genuine Christianity in the eyes of non-believers because they are smart enough to know it’s all baloney. Along that line it makes me cringe to think that Joyce Meyer and T.D. Jakes are seen by secular magazines as ‘evangelical spokespersons’ and authorities. 3) It trivializes the faith, and the God of that faith. It’s like those cute t-shirts where the Reese’s peanut butter cup (shaped like a crown) has the word ‘Jesus’ inserted instead of Reese’s. Have we not reduced the God and redeemer of the universe to the same level as a candy bar? Does the God and redeemer of the universe really work like the god in these silly books? Enough of my rant (and please don’t take offense – none intended). I do believe real harm is being done to believers, non-believers, and the cause of Christ by this kind of thing.

    LikeLike

71. Thank you for sharing this woman’s story Jeff. It made me cry, the kind of crying that makes everything feel okay for a while.

    LikeLike

72. Yeah, and look at how well we heeded Eisenhower’s warnings…

    LikeLike

73. hahaha, love it.

    LikeLike

74. …some Salem/KLove-sanctified Christian singer performing a horrific knock-off of U2 songs.

    Let me guess… hyped as “Just Like U2, Except CHRISTIAN (TM)!”

    I’ve read this on the blogosphere (can’t remember where, maybe Slacktivist), but the whole shtick is Sanitized Bowdlerized Officially Christian (TM) knockoffs of last year’s fad. And the reason is “As a Christian (TM), you are NOT Allowed to listen to U2, so here’s a Bowdlerized knockoff which you ARE allowed to listen to!” And the audience is so starved for anything like what others are doing (but they’re not allowed to do) that they go for it like a pack of starving dogs. Never mind that by the time the Official Christian (TM) knockoff comes out, the mainstream fad it’s copying has usually jumped the shark.

    LikeLike

75. Another Amazon prime lover here. I also have an Amazon card that gives me 3% cash back on all Amazon purchases. I have sold out to the man. I actually take pleasure in knowing that my money is going to Amazon rather than a Christian bookstore. Perhaps I shouldn’t feel so vindictive about it, but I do.

    LikeLike

76. Which validates Jeff’s original point. We give people what they want, since it’s about what sells rather than truth or depth.

    Just like porn and Twilight.

    LikeLike

77. In the end the use of the name of Christ as a brand or a tool for branding is to use his name in a totally vain way. To use it in this way shows a lack of respect and reverence. Jesus didn’t come to serve the needs of capitalism, to be a system for marketing, or as an advertising gimmick.

    Does anyone know the history of this kind of usage? Where did it start?

    LikeLike

78. Sparkly vampires.

    LikeLike

79. My point was that ‘Kathy’ doesn’t want anything that would challenge her lifestyle or worldview, and certainly not her faith. So, we don’t give her anything like that – just ‘Happy, Happy Jesus’ songs.

    My writing partner (the burned-out country preacher) has had to deal with “Kathys” who have told him to his face “We don’t want to learn anything. The only reason you’re here is to Keep Us Comfortable.”

    Not only rejecting the meat, but spitting out the milk as well.
    “I WANT CANDY! CANDY! CANDY!”

    LikeLike

80. If so, I’ll happily burn with him. 🙂

    LikeLike

81. A friend sent me a link to this. Greatly appreciated! My book just got slammed in a book discussion because the bad guy didn’t get what he deserved and the good guys did something shameful in the middle. I really don’t care for much Christian fiction. It leaves me feeling discouraged. I sometimes wonder why I feel so compelled to write it, but then again, many in this group would say that what I write isn’t “Christian fiction”.

    LikeLike

82. And the pablum being offered, and consumed in such huge quantities, doesn’t have an adverse affect on the church at large? I would certainly disagree with such an assessment.

    LikeLike

83. “Because I’m a CELEBRITY!!!!!!!”
    — Chorus line of a satirical Country/Western song I heard on TNN (before it became SpikeTV)

    LikeLike

84. Apparently the jury, based on the doctor’s testimony, found otherwise. From the sounds of it there’s something about being injured and/or the transfusion process that has the opposite affect of what you have positted.

    LikeLike

85. You want a real Christian (TM) ripoff, try a Christian (TM) dating service sometime.

    There’s a reason “Christian (TM) = Crap” was a common attitude in local SF fandom.

    LikeLike

86. Jeff said: “As a matter of fact, the longer I walk with him, the more I am convinced that he is anything but safe.”

    C.S. Lewis said (via Mr. Beaver): “Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the king I tell you.”

    Jeff said: “You want safety? You’ll find it at your nearby Christian bookstore. You’ll find blessings and healings and prosperity galore. But you won’t find reality. You won’t find Marsha Matto. You won’t find me any longer. And, I suspect you won’t find God there, either.”

    That last sentence: “And, I suspect you won’t find God there, either.”

    Pilgrim, you gonna BURN for that one…

    LikeLike

87. Wow, I kind of want to read that book.

    LikeLike

88. But Eisenhower warned about the threat of the military industrial complex because it was harmful to the nation as a whole. Who is the average Christian bookstore harmful to? I mean, it has little depth, it target markets to Christians with disposable income, individual stores probably market to niche groups of Christians. The usual FCS markets to a predominantly white audience, Betty Jo’s Christian Bookstore in Broadview (I think she’s closed now) was a Christian bookstore targeting an African-American demographic.

    But I can’t see how any of that is harmful to the Christian community. As has been repeatedly pointed out on this thread, if the church member wants immerse herself deeper into theology, there are alternative stores and sites online. You can’t force people to be interested in living a deeper religious life with the reading habits that go with it. The CBS are a business, they need to make a profit and you don’t make a profit by offering peas and spinach (unless you’re a greengrocer), you make more money with chocolate and caramel.

    LikeLike

89. Probably because it’s what the staff there would probably say if Jesus really DID walk in the door and they don’t want to be reminded of the fact.

    LikeLike

90. Debt relief would make a HUGE difference in Africa. The numbers are shocking really. Almost as shocking as studying the history of how that debt came to be. My favorite thing about Bono is his focus on debt relief. It is one of the clearest human rights issue the West faces today.

    LikeLike

91. I looked for Oh S*#&, Its Jesus by Steve Hughes. Not stocked at my Lifeway.

    LikeLike

92. Sorry about what life has brought your way, as it has many of us. What you said reminds me of the first time I approached a publisher about a manuscript. It was . . . I think 1990. It was a children’s book. I thought I would attempt to publish it via the Christian publishing route. Several publishers sent me their guidelines for what they would accept. It was so Disney-world perfect (and plastic) that I knew my manuscript stood no better chance than Dante’s snowman.

    One publisher said, “We think of the most conservative, kind, older church woman (my image was of Dana Carvey) . . . if it would offend her in any way, we won’t publish it.

    So, none of the great classics would have made the cut. Certainly not Tolkien.

    We really need good fiction (and nonfiction too). Not “Christian Fiction,” but great true-to-life fiction written by Christians. Stories of pastors with secret obsessions of spousal abuse and how that poor woman fought to keep her sanity. She may end up as a church out-cast while her husband is promoted to the head of the denomination and no justice is realized. But her quiet, humble faith (and tremendous, real-world doubt) have to work them selves out in real time.

    Or the tragic loss of a child where there is no happy ending, or great lesson deem. But where the parents struggle perpetually to try and understand . . . of if they can’t understand, at least find rest. Yet, maybe like the heroes of Heb 11, they never see any resolution in this life time.

    I hope that you didn’t give up on your writing. I about have.

    LikeLike

93. I saw a copy of Chesterton’s “Orthodoxy” in a Christian bookstore once…in the discount bin.

    LikeLike

94. Let’s see Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex as he was leaving office in 1960. Who will give an address warning of the Christian Industrial Complex 😀 😀

    LikeLike

95. Several weeks ago, Martha posted a link to what she thought was Christian radio in Ireland. It doesn’t appear to be a big thing over there, and I’m not sure that I got her straightened out about what Christian radio is like over here. Probably best that she remain innocent.

    The Irish station was playing stuff that I would probably tune in to. Does Ireland not “get” it, or is it us?

    LikeLike

96. I have no disagreement with the point about Christian bookstores. I haven’t seen one in decades worth looking at. But…

    .12 blood alcohol level? That isn’t one vodka and sip of weak beer. That’s more like four drinks, and not long before she got in the car. This is before we take that transfusion into account, which presumably would dilute the alcohol level. If that number is correct, the problem with this story is that it, at best, has been “improved”.

    LikeLike

97. Augustine’s Confessions are not fit for Christian publication.

    And Luther drank beer.

    LikeLike

98. Christianity as a business… or a marketing technique… I can see why people get turned off by the faith in general. My local Christian radio station promotes commercials…. wait… cue the soothing music, the soothing sound of the announcers voice as he talks about the christian dentist or the christian chiropractor – come and use our services because we are christian – see our scripture verses on the wall… I don’t believe that was ever the intent.

    One “christian” orthodontist I had the displeasure of meeting (his commercials said he was anyway) made sure every one of his patients received a $3,000 expander – whether they needed it or not. After polling a number of parents of current patients (I have a large family and needed to shop around) found they were all paying about $3k to $4K more than the average in the area.

    Although that is one extreme example, the use of the term “christian” to market a business or service is a huge turnoff.

    LikeLike

99. Simon, thanks for joining us here. I have used your essay, or parts of it, in numerous workshops I have taught. If you want royalties, get in line!

    I am looking and praying for how to reach readers without having to jump thru hoops we have been forced to endure for way too long. Any ideas?

    God is stirring in me, and this is not going to go away. I sense some trouble brewing, and I want to be right in the middle of it all…

    LikeLike

100. It was probably replaced with Mark Sanford’s (ex Christian Gov. of SC who frequented Argentina for “personal reasons”), book on how God is at the center of his political career.

     LikeLike

101. I used to have access to a half-decent Christian bookstore – they introduced me Hugh Ross and John Bevere, among others. But the owners retired recently, and the new owner is firmly committed to the evangelical ghetto. I went back one last time, after another recent discussion, just to see what was there, and left deeply saddened and disappointed.

     So what do I do now? Mostly I buy from Amazon based on recommendations from the iMonk community! 🙂

     LikeLike

102. That particular Lifeway is excellent. Along with good classics, I’ve found Zondervan titles there that don’t show up for months (if ever) at the Family Christian nearer my house.

     LikeLike

103. Wow, I have only recently found IM and I agree totally with this post. Funny how you can feel like you are the only one who feels this way about the exploitation of the Christian market. I’ve mentioned in small groups that the Christian community needs to be more aware of this stuff and have been given blank stares in return. Thanks for writing about this! I want true to life Christianity not the watered down stuff, plus I am not even a Baptist anyway.

     LikeLike

104. So you don’t like the fiction? OK. Obviously someone does.

     Which validates Jeff’s original point. We give people what they want, since it’s about what sells rather than truth or depth. I just can’t imagine Jesus operating on that kind of model, and have a hard time believing he is very happy with my local Christian bookstore.

     LikeLike

105. I think people are buying the books that reinforce or substantiate the preaching they receive. If you receive Christian person centered lectures you will seek out Christian centered books. If you are given Christ centered, Cross focused sermons about Christ and his saving work for you then you will seek out books about Christ.

     LikeLike

106. Minority voice: this is all WAAAYYYY over the top. My local Christian gift store has sold me an excellent book on Christianity vs. Mormonism, and a thick tome of Systematic (Calvinist) Theology. So you don’t like the fiction? OK. Obviously someone does.

     LikeLike

107. “K-LOVE has a panel that evaluates music and asks what ‘Kathy’ . . . would think.”

     That explains a lot. Like why Casting Crowns’ What This World Needs will never join Superchick on K-LOVE’s playlist.

     I’ve gradually lost what little faith I still had in K-LOVE since they threw Jon Rivers under the bus. And now that they’ve gone from having occasional “promotions” to a constant stream of contests and promotions? In many ways they’ve become more secular than my local classic rock station.

     Between the contests and the drivel it’s just not worth listening to any more.

     LikeLike

108. Horrible to the USA? Doesn’t that just make you an average English writer? 😦

     LikeLike

109. I’ll bet they pulled that one pretty quickly!

     LikeLike

110. That is true, unfortunately, even of churches these days. My point was that ‘Kathy’ doesn’t want anything that would challenge her lifestyle or worldview, and certainly not her faith. So, we don’t give her anything like that – just ‘Happy, Happy Jesus’ songs. Pretty much what you find on the best-seller shelf at your local Christian bookstore.

     LikeLike

111. Bono is a sanctimonious publicity hound. He wants others to donate, while he moves to the Continent to escape taxes, thus increasing the burden on others back home. He also got in a lather about debt forgiveness to Africa, as if that was going to make any difference in the average bloke’s life there. Spare me.

     LikeLike

112. well, yeah, but isn’t that how radio works? I listen to an oldies channel, it’s my favorite music channel. I’m pretty sure they have a target demographic in mind. Probably those older than 40, though I haven’t noticed a class or gender emphasis.

     LikeLike

113. When we were down to the final hour of our book sale we were practically giving them away – All the books you could fit into a bag for $1. Even then, there were a number of Christian books left. I grabbed quite a few for my outreach, including some Bibles. Some that I salvaged for my own shelf included a couple of books about the parables, one about the prophets and a lovely photo book about the Vatican for my mother-in-law.

     LikeLike

114. I’m not sure about U2, but I have heard other secular bands such as The Fray on KLove.

     LikeLike

115. OK…remember me when we don’t get raptured….then you get your pint 🙂 the US is an easy target, but we probably deserve everything you wrote and then some , though I love this bizzarro land, really I do. Kudos to you for staying in fellowship…that can be a very mixed bag. I don’t normally read SF, but I’m going to make an exception for ya.

     Greg R

     LikeLike

116. I agree with C. S. Lewis that it is a good practice to alternate between classics and current books. A substantial percentage of Christian books worth reading are out of copyright. A surprising number of these can be downloaded free in print or audio online.

     So with such a wealth a material for free, what are readers looking for in current books?

     Much of popular print, including Christian books, have become extensions of other forms of mass entertainment. Books are extensions of the programming of pop culture/political commentators, sports merchandisers, pop entertainment and Christian feel-good TV programming.

     This past weekend I worked at the book sale at our fall festival at church. We had a fairly decent selection of Christian books donated along with a predictable selection of popular fiction and political/cultural tirades. What did people want? Joyce Meyer. That was the only author I heard anyone ask for by name.

     This is just the way it is. I suspect that some percentage of book buyers wouldn’t buy books at all if they were not extensions of some other favorite form of entertainment.

     Of course this doesn’t mean there would be no readers for “real” Christian books. The readers exist but they may be a bit more reluctant to purchase an unknown.

     This is one reason I appreciate IM so much. I have learned about many wonderful authors on this site.

     LikeLike

117. Heh, my eyes jumped right over it.

     Following link now!

     LikeLike

118. and it’s stories just like this one that explain why I’m not into the Christian bookstore scene anymore. Spent 20 plus years going from time to time with the occasional stretch that included way too many visits. It always felt safe, eerily safe.

     After the turns my life has taken (a sickness that almost killed me, a wretched divorce that broke me, and much more) I have learned the Christian life is anything but safe. I’ve been working on my book for 6 years and after realizing it won’t even get off the ground let alone fly in the Christian world of publishing I’ve given up trying to go that route.

     This is a great post Jeff, and I needed it today more than you can imagine. Thanks for your willingness to get outside the box and write honestly.

     LikeLike

119. Sadly Lawrence, the “they” you speak of should it be CBA/ECPA is quite good at keeping what they will and won’t allow from affiliated publishers a secret. Absolutely no one knows what “they” want. We can only guess and speculate if that’s what we want to waste our time doing.

     I don’t.

     And like Headless Unicorn Guy (who better hurry up an read my books before I get angry) said. Don’t expect anything in Christian bookstores except for targeted fiction.

     Bottom line, Christian bookstores carry fiction that is denominationally targeted and not written for readers who enjoy general market work. Sadly, because they don’t specify that the work is targeted, everybody assumes (because “they” ONLY use the broader label Christian) that their stores carry work that will appeal to ALL denominations. They don’t. They never will. End of story.

     Headless Unicorn Guy (Hug Awww) Send me your dang address so I can send you my books. Not that I don’t enjoy bumping into you on various blogs, but you’ve got to at least be able to weigh in on what my books are about.. You’ll like them all right. I promise. 😉

     LikeLike

120. Lot of contemporary Christian music is just bad karaoke.

     LikeLike

121. Oh, but you DO! Not Bono and the gang, but some Salem/KLove-sanctified Christian singer performing a horrific knock-off of U2 songs.

     LikeLike

122. Nothing I can add except — bullseye, Jeff!

     LikeLike

123. 🙂

     LikeLike

124. Not only will the publishers avoid anything but the safe stuff, but as a friend in the business told me, they also don’t want “Christian” books loaded with Scripture. Why? Because readers will skip right over it. The reason? We already know all that stuff. Just tell me a story.

     I like Michael Spencer’s story in Mere Churchianity. God saves a young woman. Michael’s only direction to her? He gave her a Bible – nothing else.

     LikeLike

125. I have always been very vocal about Going Mainstream.

     LikeLike

126. Which is why I’ve always been a vocal proponent of GOING MAINSTREAM. I want my books on the shelves of Change of Hobbit along with other Old School SF like Poul Anderson & Beam Piper, not shoved in a Jesus Junk shelf between Amish Bonnet Romances and Left Behind: Volume whatever.

     Incidentally, Sue Dent (of the Lost Genre Guild) is known for two Christian paranormal romance novels, Never Ceese and a sequel whose title I don’t remember. Paranormal romance between a (male) vampire and (female) werewolf who actually do meet plausibly — they’re vamp & lyco because of a curse, and meet to pool their resources in an attempt to lift the curse before it can lock in permanently. Don’t know much beyond that (and that her vamps don’t *sparkle*), but that premise alone is enough to give it potential.

     LikeLike

127. The teetotaler stereotype the editor is cowering in fear of is hardly the majority report in evangelicalism anymore…

     Check your IMonk archives, Miguel. The ones about the SBC and The Battle of the Booze.

     LikeLike

128. In my view, many Christian book stores are not concerned about doctrine but on lifestyle.

     And don’t forget all those JUICY! books Mobilizing Christians for THE CULTURE WAR (TM).

     LikeLike

129. This the same K-LOVE whose byline is “SAFE — FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY”?

     And what does Kathy (TM) remind you of? Bored Housewife (like the Harlequin target demographic) crossed with a Stepford Wife?

     LikeLike

130. …but because he was hip and edgy, he didn’t last long. He was replaced by a woman who told Coleman that Christians don’t want to read those kind of books.

     Let me guess — Amish Bonnet Romances and Left Behind?

     I’ve not darkened a Lifeway store in years for exactly the reasons you cite here. WAY too safe. Aslan is not a tame lion.

     But Official Christian Bookstores will ONLY let Aslan in if He’s been declawed and castrated. Purring lapcat for the Church Ladies. Which is really gonna help when Tash kicks in the door.

     LikeLike

131. “Really, ever since my wife and I got an Amazon prime membership, I’ve hardly been in any bookstores, yet alone Christian ones.”

     Same here. If I find a book I want in Borders, I order it on Amazon later.

     LikeLike

132. Has the Christian faith been minimized to “don’t drink and that makes you a good Christian?”

     Add Young Earth Creationism and Stick it to the Fags, and in short the answer is YES.

     THAT

     LikeLike

133. Got my copy at B&N.

     Same here.

     LikeLike

134. He mentioned it was on Amazon. Found it here.

     LikeLike

135. The reason the bookstores don’t carry liturgical resources is that it would take up the aisle that contains Testamints, WWJD bracelets, and books on managing your money. That, and the fear that someone wearing all black and a tab collar may come into their store to shop. Those people give us good God-fearing Christians the heebie-jeebies.

     When I can’t find books on the first three centuries of Christianity, great writers like Phyllis Tickle and Scott McKnight, and works by folks who don’t pastor megachurches (Robert Webber, Mark Galli, etc.), it’s straight to Borders for me. More often these days, though, it’s Amazon…much cheaper.

     Wait a minute…I just realized I’m one of the guys in black…

     LikeLike

136. Christian bookstores came into existence in 1950 when a group of Baptist Bookstores formed an organization called the Christian Booksellers Association. CBA charged publishers a fee to belong and asked that they write with in very restrictive denominational guidelines. For the fee, this targeted fiction would be placed in mass in all Baptist Bookstores. Since that time Baptist Bookstores changed their name to Christian Bookstores but still do not allow anything but fee based publishers entrance (or very targeted fiction from non-affiliated publishers.)

     My work has been approved for distribution to the Christian market but none of my books will ever show up in Christian bookstores because my publisher doesn’t pay to belong to CBA. If you want your work in a Christian bookstore, find a CBA publisher, be prepared to write targeted fiction that doesn’t appeal to anyone but Baptist bookstore patrons and have fun. Tons of general market bookstores place non-affiliated Christian books all day long.

     Thank-you Ellen for pointing me here. 😉 You’re a doll.

     LikeLike

137. I’d love to read your book. Be sure to mention if you ever publish it (or toss it on the ‘net, or whatever). 🙂

     LikeLike

138. You have to have something for the sequel!

     LikeLike

139. If it’s allowed, I just have to give a plug for one of my most favorite places on earth…in Wichita, Kansas. It’s called 8th Day Books. While it is not a Christian book store in the sense you’re talking about, it is altogether wonderful. It is actually a “classics” bookstore.

     They have quite the selection of books – even a dedicated CS Lewis area. And much randomness, along with books (particularly used ones) that make me scratch my head and wonder WHO reads them. And of course that means I have to read the opening paragraphs 🙂

     I wander around there every chance I get, and of course there are plenty of books I just cannot live without, both new and used: http://www.eighthdaybooks.com/.

     THIS is the kind of “Christian” bookstore I need more of.

     LikeLike

140. I’ll hold you to that… 🙂

     It’s interesting (in a that-essay-makes-me-feel-old sort of way) that this issue is still so very alive. I took my own advice, and told my own stories. You’ll never find my stuff in a CBA bookshop, even the anthologies of Catholic SF I’m in, because, well, they’re Catholic (even though I’m not) – but it doesn’t bother me one jot. I hope I could say the same thing even if I remained unpublished, though I imagine that’d be a frustration to many a writer who might be tempted to tailor their story to the CBA market if they thought they could sell it there.

     I have three books out next year – near-future SF – I’ll warn you now, all of them include excessive drinking, graphic violence, massive amounts of swearing and ‘sexual situations’ (though there’s no time for actual sex, as there’s too much shooting going on): pretty much everything the CBA wouldn’t want. The one theme that caused me the most angst? I’m really horrible to the USA.

     And here I am, still a Christian, still going to church.

     LikeLike

141. I avoid Christian bookstores for the reasons you’ve mentioned. The last time I wondering into one (just to see what Christians were reading) the book being promoted the most was one by Jon and Kate (of the Plus Eight fame) describing how God is at the center of their perfect marriage.

     LikeLike

142. Rick, Although I agree with you and Miguel 95%, there is one thing I would add that makes the editor’s assertion plausible. If the kingdom belongs to the poor in spirit (Mt. 5:3), then the place where market demand and true spirituality intersect is in a hunger for seeing the truth applied and working in situations Christians don’t typically find themselves.

     To be perfectly honest, I think Marsha’s plight wouldn’t draw much interest (or at least enough from a publisher’s standpoint, as the editor says) because there is such a streak of self-righteousness that runs through American evangelical circles.

     I know that’s not a very nice thing to say, but when you can comfortably (if silently, out of politeness) look down your nose at the Marshas of the church and say to yourself, ‘Thank goodness I would never do that,’ then you don’t have a reason to buy a book detailing their struggle in those circumstances.

     LikeLike

143. Actually, what used to gripe me about Christian bookstores was the dearth of intellectual-level books – e.g., seminary-level commentaries and history/theology books and Greek and Hebrew texts and tools (other than Strong’s Concordance).

     Our local Christian ‘megastore’ (in Springfield, MO) used to carry a lot of serious books. After a recent remodel, I’d guess that 75% of the floor space is devoted to Jesus Junk, and of the 25% left for books, there are probably about 100 books that are actually worth the paper they’re printed on (on an ever-shrinking shelf). After our last visit to the ‘Christian junkstore’ I told my wife that the problem is that it’s too easy to print books, and as a result, there are jillions of books that just never should have gotten printed at all. It points out clearly that what often goes under the guise of ‘ministry’ is really just about making money (and don’t get me started on the ‘Testamints’ or ‘Guardian Angels’ band-aids). The really sad part is that American evangelicals aren’t able to see that or just don’t care.

     LikeLike

144. In his book ‘Why Men Hate Going to Church’, David Murrow says that K-LOVE has a panel that evaluates music and asks what ‘Kathy’ (if I remember ‘her’ name correctly) would think. She is their hypothetical typical listener – an early 30’s, upper-middle class, white (of course) soccer mom with 3 kids, drives a mini-van and goes to a mega-church. If it won’t ‘edify’ Kathy, they don’t play it.

     LikeLike

145. Seminary book stores are good places to find material, especially the scholarly books. But fiction? Go back to the classics, at least for now. The last Christian fiction book I read made me sick. This was about 4 or 5 years ago, and I don’t remember the title or author. Hyde Brothers in Fort Wayne is a used book store on two or three levels, with shelves full, books in stacks on the floors, dust, and a cat roaming the isles. And the checkout line can be long and slow, because they also are the information desk and advise givers. I didn’t know this one time, and my question was researched while the line waited!

     LikeLike

146. I would take your comment a step further. Most writings about the christian not the Christ.

     LikeLike

147. You forgot the zombies.

     LikeLike

148. Really, ever since my wife and I got an Amazon prime membership, I’ve hardly been in any bookstores, yet alone Christian ones. I was in a Family Christian Bookstore around the holidays last year, and even with their super-duper sales, I didn’t find anything worth buying. The vast majority of stuff seems so saccharine and fake to me. There may be a few books by some authors I like, but they cost about 50-75% more than what I can get them for online.

     Also, don’t get me started on Christian radio. It makes me want to gouge my eardrums out. If it’s not the music, it’s their stupid bumpers – “you’re listening to WCRAP, the positive, encouraging sound to your day”. Ugghh – it’s too much…

     LikeLike

149. “…I’ve visited.”

     LikeLike

150. Well, I don’t think you’re about to find R. Crumb’s The Book of Genesis in your local Family Christian Store or Lifeway Bookstore anytime soon (though you can find it at Barnes & Noble and Borders Books).

     And I had to go to Barnes & Noble to get Tyndale’s Manga Messiah, Manga Metamorphosis, and Manga Mutiny – and it looks like now I’ve got to go there to get the new Manga Melech. 😀

     LikeLike

151. In my view, many Christian book stores are not concerned about doctrine but on lifestyle. This is a reflection of what many churches focus on as well as Christians.

     LikeLike

152. Catholic?
     Drinks alcohol?
     Cusses?

     Three strikes and you’re out.

     Time to go to the local Christian bookstore and play the game that “Summer Finn” has “Tom Hansen” play in the park with her in the movie (500) Days of Summer.

     (I bet you have a hard time finding Brennan Manning’s books, too.)

     Actually, what used to gripe me about Christian bookstores was the dearth of intellectual-level books – e.g., seminary-level commentaries and history/theology books and Greek and Hebrew texts and tools (other than Strong’s Concordance). Mardel actually carries a decent amount of such books compared to many Christian bookstores I’m visited.

     LikeLike

153. from the Dan Allison link…I think this is SImon Morden writing:

     If you take my advice on these things, you might find that you’re not writing CBA fiction. But don’t think for a minute that it makes your story – or you – any less Christian. In closing, I would urge you to be honest, fearless and unflinching. Writing is hard enough without the expectations of others preying on your mind. Don’t write the stories you think you ought to write because you are a Christian or the stories others think you ought to write because you are a Christian. The privilege and responsibility we have as authors, the one that you have: we tell our own stories. We create them, sweat them, live them, and more often than not, tear them down and build them up again. But they are ours and ours alone.

     sounds like Jeff Dunn to me…
     thanks Dan A for finding that essay; love to have a pint with that lad.
     Greg R

     LikeLike

154. Interestingly enough, I had a similar conversation with a 16 year old girl yesterday… only the topic was Christian radio. When she commutes with her mom she seldom listens to the local “Christian” radio station and her mom asked why. Her response? The bulk of the music is all fluff and feel good and theer is seldom anything that isn’t self focused. She said to me “I’m a Christian and my life isn’t all fluff and feel good. Either I’m living a lie or they are selling one.” My local Christian bookstore seldom has what I need so I generally end up buying online from a number of places (including CBD … I know they too fit the profile in many ways but at least they still carry much of what I want to read and they generally cheaper than anywhere else)… do I need to confess that as sin?

     LikeLike

155. I have used this essay for some time when I teach writers how to be real. It has some very keen insights.

     LikeLike

156. You’re right about that, Scott. And think of C.S. Lewis. Smoked like a chimney (his housekeeper complained that his pant cuffs were always full of ash), drank often times not in moderation, cussed, believed in evolution, said it was not necessary to believe in a literal devil or hell in order to be saved–what evangelical church would invite him to speak today?

     LikeLike

157. While in England I bought a leatherbound BCP published by Cambridge. They make the best Bibles–everything hand-stitched, etc. Wonderful. Oh, and it was not at a Christian store, either.

     LikeLike

158. Bono, however, is very open about his faith and how that affects his music and charity efforts and whatnot. I remember when Joshua Tree came out, for a little while you could find it in Christian bookstores. Same with the first Collective Soul album. But those were different days.

     LikeLike

159. Got my copy at B&N. Didn’t even try to look at the local Christian book store.

     LikeLike

160. On the liturgical end of things here’s a little anecdote. I was trying to find a copy of the Book of Common Prayer a while back. Now, the BCP has been a MAJOR influence on the English language, to an extent that many folks don’t know. In fact, when we think of the traditional wedding bit of “Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to day . . . ” that’s the marriage liturgy from the BCP! I’d argue that the BCP is the most important contribution Anglicanism has made to Christianity.

     Called my local Christian bookstores. They all had never even HEARD of the Book of Common Prayer.

     LikeLike

161. Ironically, last night I was at a fundraiser for a new ministry. The folks who were invited were inter-denominational. The only expense to the guests: a cash bar! 😀

     LikeLike

162. Why didn’t I think of that? Millions? It will sell billions!

     LikeLike

163. Jeff – I have the perfect book for you, you’ll make millions: Teenage Amish Vampires……….during the Tribulation.

     LikeLike

164. It is more than just bookstores, it is the entire evangelical subculture. I too have a story that doesn’t have a resolution. I have learned over the years I can’t even share it in small groups, it doesn’t fit any standard formula of what evangelical subculture thinks a story should contain. I have learned the hard way that I must share it one at a time with people who can handle the story.

     But, I believe that is how God wants us to share many of these stories. Why do we need to publish a book and submit ourselves to the book and music publishing executives? Why do we need to stand up at conferences and on radio stations and tell an impassioned story with a happy ending? Share the story one at a time, or use the internet to publish it on blogs. Let’s just bypass the system.

     LikeLike

165. A thoughtful essay here on this topic from a writer in England.
     http://www.bookofmorden.co.uk/essays/sexdeathchristian.html

     LikeLike

166. “Embrace the fact that the Amish are everywhere and are the perfect representatives of Jesus in our day.”
     LOL. That made my day. Thanks.

     Unfortunately, Marsha would not be welcome in most evangelical churches either. So it is not limited to the bookstore.

     LikeLike

167. U2 is not Christian music, and I wouldn’t want to hear them on KLOVE. Don’t hear me wrong; I do listen to U2, and I also play KLOVE in my car. But they program a specific genre and music and U2 isn’t it.

     LikeLike

168. Jeff, I’ve seen Spencer’s book at Barnes and Noble in their religion section; is it available at Christian bookstores?

     Michael also noted an exception; the Lifeway Christian Bookstore in Louisville, KY has (or did have) a very healthy section of good theology and such. Walking in the front door it looks just like any Lifeway store anywhere, but because Southern Seminary (the flagship school of the SBC) is in that town, they can sustain a section of their store that sells the real stuff.

     LikeLike

169. For four years I was an Assemblies of God minister AND a monk with the Brothers and Sisters of Charity. I tried, in vain, to get a traditional Christian publisher to publish my book, but to no avail. My book, Taking Off My Comfortable Clothes: Removing Religion to Find Relationship (now available through Amazon.com), talks about my four years in a Catholic monastery and the lessons God taught me. It isn’t a safe book. The road is unknown and the results are often quite uncomfortable. Fortunately, my faith is in a loving God and not a Christian business that is in business first and ministry second. And I’m always suspicions of any entity that seeks to tack God’s name onto the end of something as a type of imprimatur that affirms their desires without seeking the desires of God. If my book never appears in a standard Christian bookstore, I won’t be surprised.

     Blessings,

     Jim

     LikeLike

170. I gave up on my local Christian bookstore after the 3 small shelves with Luther, Calvin, Augustine, and old dead theologians was removed and not replaced. Could never find the Small Catechism.

     LikeLike

171. Same reason you won’t find U2 on KLOVE.

     LikeLike

172. Not only would a book like this not fly, neither would most books that take theology seriously. Or, try to find liturgical resources or serious church music. These are not “Christian” bookstores, they are “evangelical subculture” stores, and they serve one segment of Christendom.

     LikeLike

173. Jeff, please be sure to tell us if and when you do get this book published. I want that kind of relationship with God, too.

     LikeLike

174. Miguel has hit the nail on the head. The books they are afraid to stock are the ones most needed.

     How many Mary Doria Russell books do you see at your local Lifeway store?

     I got a review copy of Coleman Luck’s “Angel Fall” which is one seriously dark fantasy that addresses some pretty heavy issues. It was put out by Zondervan and was championed by an editor who is no longer with the company. The editor was hired by Z to help reach the hip, edgy crowd (this was back in the day when they had their YS/Emergent line) but because he was hip and edgy, he didn’t last long. He was replaced by a woman who told Coleman that Christians don’t want to read those kind of books.

     Meanwhile Ted Dekker’s sales continue to climb. So, yes, Christians DO want to read those kinds of books.

     I’ve not darkened a Lifeway store in years for exactly the reasons you cite here. WAY too safe. Aslan is not a tame lion. He’s good, but he certainly is not safe.

     LikeLike

175. “Yes, you can find safety in your Christian bookstore. Nothing bad ever happens in the pages of Christian books. Life is nothing but an endless supply of cupcakes and roses. The sun always shines in Christian books. Every ending is a happy ending. No one ever sins, and if they do, well, they are really, really sorry about it.”

     Pardon me while I go off on a point that most likely wasn’t meant to be.

     What about stories in the Bible? There is some very questionable behavior in the Bible.

     Killings.
     Incest.
     Fights.
     A gruesome death sentence.
     Ship wreck.
     Etc.
     I just thought I’d mention a different aspect that maybe not too many people thought about.

     Although this post wasn’t very edifying, I do believe we can’t and shouldn’t be too accustomed to the stories in our bible, after all, when we see the things above in movies, we look away, but when we read it in our bibles we pretty much skip right past it unnoticed.

     LikeLike

176. Although the blessed Imonk was through with Christian bookstores, I hope you won’t take this the wrong way when I say that I hope they carry his book.

     I started reading this post and thought to myself, “…I bet she’s Catholic.” Yup. Not sayin it was predictable. Great story, shocking in the best of ways. But the Christian bookstore side of the story is, sadly, hardly shocking at all.

     However, I FIRMLY believe that the publisher/editor who said he couldn’t sell the book, despite his being an “expert in the field”, is dead wrong. This is the kind of stuff Christians are starving for. I bet if the took a risk on it, it would really pay off. The type of stuff lining the Christian bookstores are what people are getting sick of. We yearn for a God who invades our lives and crushes us. The teetotaler stereotype the editor is cowering in fear of is hardly the majority report in evangelicalism anymore, and is a breed that will be nearing extinction within a generation or two. If anything, we’ve overreacted, and our prayer is now: “I thank you God that you have not made me like that bigoted fundamentalist who buys pietistic publications…”

     LikeLike

177. It is no divine accident that the Doctrine of Original Sin and the Doctrine of Grace are intimately connected, because in the grit of life there is our God. And our lives aren’t safe, and they get less safe as we know Him more.

     My only encouragement to Marsha is to find a faith community. We need each other, even though we piss each other off.

     Jeff, perhaps you have found a new business model.

     LikeLike

178. You know the major reason why this story wouldn’t fly is because of alcohol. Has the Christian faith been minimized to “don’t drink and that makes you a good Christian?” I have a family member who actually thinks that taking a drink is a salvation issue.

     This poor woman’s tragedy will not get sympathy from many Christian audiences because she had one drink five hours before getting in a car. I find such a reductionism quite troublesome; one drink of alcohol condemns her from entering a Christian bookstore. But, we will gladly embrace Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, or anyone else tellling us that God wants us to be rich, happy, or what ever nonsense they are peddling this month. It is really disgusting.

     LikeLike